Serious Thread: The Liverpool Situation

WeasteDevil said:
Forget that lot. I bet you that if you had a manager as capable as say Arsen Wenger and gave him 30m quid, he'd have Liverpool back as a top 4 side within 18 months.
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I'll end my discussion on Liverpool today by saying thats not possible Weaste. The squads in the top 5 are far better in depth and quality than Liverpools currently. Chelsea and City will only get stronger this summer with more signings, while Arsenal will always be there or there abouts thanks to Wenger and his squad building.

Spurs can only improve with their never ending supply of cash. Harrys pushing them more and more, they're realistically only 2 big signings away from being title contenders.

Liverpool have alot of work to do and that will require alot of money and alot of successful signings and a very, very good manager. It's too much of an ask in my opinion.
 
The likes of a Wenger could take 30m, sell three of four current players, and end up with a kitty of 70m+ and come up with a brand new team a damn sight more capable than the current one.

Arsenal haven't exactly been splashing money around in the recent past either, but look at where they are. They are not perfect, no, but they seemingly don't need to be.
 
WeasteDevil said:
The likes of a Wenger could take 30m, sell three of four current players, and end up with a kitty of 70m+ and come up with a brand new team a damn sight more capable than the current one.
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Plus he would have them set up differently and more effectively.
 
golden_blunder said:
dont Charles N'Zogbia and Niko Krancjar both play left sided?
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Charles does yes, Niko plays on both sides and in the centre. I wanted him at United before he went to Spurs for peanuts, would've been a good additon to our squad with his flair and creativity.

RedSky At Night said:
City wouldn't allow Adebayor on loan.

Zogbia would be the first decent winger they've had for years. That would improve their squad. I don't think Spurs would allow both Palacios and Krancjar to be sold, Palacios has improved his form in the last few matches but Krancjar isn't getting much game time. But would Spurs be willing to sell to a potential rival and besides he's a LM.

If it was me, i'd start from the back and sort out their defense then progress forward.
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I think City would be open to a loan until the end of the seaosn, with the signing of Dzeko. Spurs would definitely allow Niko to leave, Palacios would be harder to get, but a tabled bid would test their resolve.

Ryan Shawcross is another i'd sign, too. Carragher is laughably bad these days, and i'd start playing Agger; Kyriagcos isnt that bad.

Spammy said:
Adebayor and Nzogbia would both improve the first XI, Krancjaer is a good player but He'd do nothing to solve the bigger problems in the team. Palacios is rubbish.
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Palacios is an improvement on Poulsen and arguably Lucas. He just hasnt looked the same player since his brother died horribly, so maybe he needs a new challenge.
 
Disagree. Diarra of Madrid isnt a bad shout either in my opinion.
 
So you're suggesting Weaste that a manager could goto Liverpool and replicate what Wenger has achieved in over a decade at Arsenal in less than 2 years.

It doesn't work like that. Who are Liverpool meant to sell to create this 40million? Glen Johnson? Torres? Gerrard? What players at Liverpool are sellable assets and how do you then replace them?

You're suggesting it'd be nice and simple. But there isn't a good enough core of players at Liverpool to turn it around so easily. Their defense is probably one of their main weakness', i'm sure they're praying that Reina stays because he's been excellent for them again this year.

Agger is probably the only CB who's worthy of the shirt. Johnson can't defend, Carraghers lost his pace, Konchesky is a failure, Skrtel is terribly inconsisitient. Would we realistically want any of these players near United squad?

So the new manager has pretty much the entire defense + squad depth to fill out and thats before even looking at their midfield/strikers.

GB summarised it well on page 4. Post 151.

I just can't see them turning it around and finishing in the top4 for a good few years. One thing is certain though, they HAVE to get the next manager choice right.
 
The problem at Liverpool and especially with their fans is that they expect instant success.

Unfortunately Liverpool have gone down and beyond a "quick" fix.

For years, like United, Liverpool were a great team, they built on their success gradually without missing a beat. They had managers who managed, who knew the game and had respect from all fans. They had a solid tradition in management like promoting from within, they had men who knew the system that worked for Liverpool. That is not there anymore, Souness got rid of that and it has never been or will be replaced.
I used to respect Liverpool for what they achieved and the way they did it, from Shankley right through to Paisley. They were famous for their "boot room" which was what Souness got rid of. They have tried a mish mash of managers, none what have worked, not in the Liverpool tradition anyway.
I really feel that they will now become just "another" team in the PL. that is unless they get a solid manager who will be given time to build and develop Liverpool as a top team again and with the current ownership I just do not see that happening.
 
Spammy said:
Well yeah, but that's fantasy land, these are supposedly realistic targets right now.
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Liverpool are not going to get relegated with the current team they have. It's all knee jerk bullshit. There is no point in throwing good money after bad (especially when you don't have a lot of it) just to ensure that you end up 10th rather than 15th. Players are not the prime key here, the manager and a longer term strategy are.
 
WeasteDevil said:
Liverpool are not going to get relegated with the current team they have. It's all knee jerk bullshit. There is no point in throwing good money after bad (especially when you don't have a lot of it) just to ensure that you end up 10th rather than 15th. Players are not the prime key here, the manager and a longer term strategy are.
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The way they are playing, they will be knee deep in it before long

They have 25 points (the bottom team have 20) and are on negative goal difference

Admittedly, there is only 5 points currently between them and 7th place, but if they dont start beating the bottom of the table teams, then they will be in it before they realise how much trouble they are in
 
ukbob said:
The problem at Liverpool and especially with their fans is that they expect instant success.

Unfortunately Liverpool have gone down and beyond a "quick" fix.

For years, like United, Liverpool were a great team, they built on their success gradually without missing a beat. They had managers who managed, who knew the game and had respect from all fans. They had a solid tradition in management like promoting from within, they had men who knew the system that worked for Liverpool. That is not there anymore, Souness got rid of that and it has never been or will be replaced.
I used to respect Liverpool for what they achieved and the way they did it, from Shankley right through to Paisley. They were famous for their "boot room" which was what Souness got rid of. They have tried a mish mash of managers, none what have worked, not in the Liverpool tradition anyway.
I really feel that they will now become just "another" team in the PL. that is unless they get a solid manager who will be given time to build and develop Liverpool as a top team again and with the current ownership I just do not see that happening.
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Isn't that exactly what Houllier and Benetez were and I think they were both given an adequate amount of time, certainly for the era that we live in these days.
 
I feel pity for gerrard and Torres. They are better off playing elsewhere.
 
I wonder if they'll be able to keep hold of the likes of Reina, Gerrard, Torres in the summer. 2 remarkably average seasons may be enough for them. How many years on their contracts do they have left?
 
esmufc10 said:
I wonder if they'll be able to keep hold of the likes of Reina, Gerrard, Torres in the summer. 2 remarkably average seasons may be enough for them. How many years on their contracts do they have left?
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never mind that, i read that Real Madrid and Juventus are considering bids for Glen Johnson!? WTF????
 
The question is whether they can get a top-class manager in

They've been able to in the past - whatever you think of Rafa he had an excellent record in the game when they got him.

But something is rotten at that club and has been for ages... I don't know what it is, but it just has something deadly about it, it's the kiss of death for people's careers. It's a question of whether this is widely felt in the game, that going to Pool is a bad idea, or whether the prestige, history and huge fan base is still a big draw.

Plus there's no CL football on offer (there will probably still be European football next season though, I reckon), so bringing in top-drawer players will be harder, and there are now not one but two infinitely rich clubs to deal with as well as us and Arsenal, plus a resurgent Spurs who have a squad far better than Liverpool's.

They need a manager with not just talent and ideas but the courage to take on the challenge of bringing a great club back to life in very difficult circumstances.

Whoever he is, he's a cnut...
 
Maybe, the the set of managers who are both up for that potentially damaging challenge, and also excellent, must be quite small. I've no doubt you could get Paul Ince or someone to have a crack at it, but will Laurent Blanc?

I'm still a bit gutted that H&G were forced out so easily in the end. How often does that happen in business? You'd expect at least one court case. It's set back the cause of Scouse rubbishness by possibly decades.
 
Not too many big-name managers are going to want to go there at the moment. Despite everyone knowing the problems within the club, the expectations at Liverpool are still going to be same as they were back in the 80's. It will be the same at United when we inevitably face a slight decline. The expectation and mindset that our fans have today would remain for at least 10 years, should the worst happen. At the same time, the rewards would be huge should someone get them back challenging.

They need to be looking at the best of the second-tier managers. The fellow at Porto at the moment, or even someone like Owen Coyle, fit the criteria.
 
Sam.G said:
Exactly. And the challenge will appeal to many.
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To be honest I agree with this, if there is a man out there who CAN do it he would be a legend. If I was a young manager and was offered the chance I'd jump at it, failiure isn't going to rexuce your stock THAT much due to the current state of the club and success would make you the hottest property around.
 
Bilbo said:
Not too many big-name managers are going to want to go there at the moment. Despite everyone knowing the problems within the club, the expectations at Liverpool are still going to be same as they were back in the 80's. It will be the same at United when we inevitably face a slight decline. The expectation and mindset that our fans have today would remain for at least 10 years, should the worst happen. At the same time, the rewards would be huge should someone get them back challenging.

They need to be looking at the best of the second-tier managers. The fellow at Porto at the moment, or even someone like Owen Coyle, fit the criteria.
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I really hope he gets a shot at a big job, I really have high hopes for him.
 
AIdan O'Hara better stay away from Dion Fanning around the Independent newspaper offices...

Time for 'Pool fans to show some kop-on - Soccer, Sport - Independent.ie

Konchesky was always going to be the fall guy this season if things started to go wrong for his former Fulham boss because, in the eyes of those whose vision is sepia-tinted, he is "not a Liverpool player".

Such wisdom generally comes from people who pompously describe the team as "Liverpool Football Club" as if giving the club its full title adds a layer of gravitas or makes them special as they bang on about returning the club to its "rightful place". The fact, as Benitez might have put it, is that Liverpool haven't been special for a long time and the beauty of sport is that there's no such thing as a rightful place.

Yes, they fill the ground every week with loud and passionate supporters, but so do Newcastle. Until Manchester United win another one, Liverpool jointly hold the record for the number of league titles won, even if the last one came in a time when goalkeepers could pick up a backpass. Much of their aura was created in European competition under lights on Anfield nights yet, for the last two seasons, these games have taken place on a Thursday, which nobody really notices.

decent

The truth is that a manager like Hodgson, players like Konchesky, Sotirios Kyrgiakos or Maxi Rodriguez and competitions like the Europa League, perfectly represent the modern Liverpool -- a decent, can-beat-anybody-on-their-day sort of team who might win the odd cup with a favourable draw.

A few weeks before Benitez left Anfield, there was a concerted campaign among a section of supporters who sent emails to newspapers, TV and radio stations demanding an end to what they described as a "media conspiracy" which attempted to undermine Benitez. Without the excuse of bad owners or bad players, Benitez then lasted only a few months at Inter Milan yet there is still a section of Liverpool's supporters who would welcome him back even if, as if to underline how much they feel the problem lay with the manager, Inter then appointed Leonardo to take over.

When Benitez left the club, Liverpool had just finished seventh in the Premier League, a position which they are now four points off with two games in hand. Hodgson's remit certainly wasn't to keep the club standing still, but once the new owners arrived, his position was always one or two bad results away from being vulnerable, particularly in the era of the faceless message board Mafiosi.

But even if those 9,000 who took time to make one click of a mouse -- "signed an online petition" -- to get rid of the manager got their way, it's deluded to think that the next man would be any better.
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Very good article. The fans are raging against the passing of time.

So many of Liverpool's problems stem from an inability to adapt to the modern game. The whole reason G+H were brought in was because they needed outside funds to subsidise their ambition.

The club needs reform in nearly all areas: academy, stadium, backroom staff, first team, and board/off-field management. Yet apparently this is as bad as it has got and the blame is nearly all Hodgson's.
 
The Azzurri said:
I feel pity for gerrard and Torres. They are better off playing elsewhere.
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I can feel for Reina and Gerrard.

Torres, as much as I love him, has done extraordinarily little to suggest he belongs in a better side than the dross Hodgson has turned us into this season.

If the other two were to leave, it would be with a disappointed acknowledgement from my part of 'fair enough lads. you gave it your best while your were here. I can't blame you for wanting to play with peers'.

If Torres leaves in the summer, it would be with a feeling of 'thanks for being shit and leaving us in the shit for the past 18 months, fernando. You reckon you might give a shit for someone else then?'
 
When they have everyone fit, it's a pretty good first XI. Good enough to be in the top-6 at any rate. The wings aren't particularly strong, but the rest of the side is fairly solid.

The real problems start when they need to use the rest of the squad. Martin Kelly looks like a handy player, though. Maybe he'll get a run at right back after his performance on Sunday.

And one other thing: what does Maxi Rodriguez do exactly?
 
WeasteDevil said:
Forget that lot. I bet you that if you had a manager as capable as say Arsen Wenger and gave him 30m quid, he'd have Liverpool back as a top 4 side within 18 months.
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I strongly doubt that:

* Torres will be gone this summer: playing in the Europa Cup two seasons running will be too much for him to swallow.

* Before next season starts Cole will be nearly 30, Konchesky and Jovanovic will turn 30, Gerrard, Kuyt and Poulsen will be 31, Kyrgiakos will be 32, Aurelio will be nearly 32, and Carrager will be 33. That's a hell of a lot of ageing players.

* Thin squad depth.

It will take a lot more than 30m to fix all that.
 
Feed Me said:
City would bite their hand off for Torres and would without a doubt be happy to pay the money. Arguably, Abramovich would be happy to ignore his austerity measures for Torres also...
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Its the good old Financial Fair Play in my opinion and a bit like Qatar bidding for united before securing the real prize.
 
Woy was pretty much a "dead man walking" as soon as the new owners arrived in town, particularly as canny Kenny was in situ, having already nailed his colours to the wanting the job mast in the summer.

Obviously KD will give the club some much needed stability and is certainly a very dignified appointment in view of his long and illustrious association with LFC.

Dalglish has obviously harboured ambitions for some time to regain the managers' job there and will have the belief to do things "his way" and I don't think he'll have any inhibitions.

We'll ( and KD himself ) find out over the next few months what the Dalglish Factor can achieve in turning their fortunes around , and just how big a job it is to make that turn around. Whilst he's obviously an accomplished and experienced operator ,and kept in touch with the 'game' , it's been a long time since he last managed.

He's about to find out if he can still cut the mustard.
 
I'm sure they'll finish comfortably in midtable, they can put out a better XI than started tonight. Dalglish was giving Poulsen and Jovanovic a chance and he's learnt his lesson.

But an Everton win at the weekend would scare some people.
 
They were 2nd in 2008-09.

Since then they lost Xabi Alonso and Mascherano and have replaced them with squad players incapable of filling their shoes.

You can't strip the spine of your team of its influential players, not replace them, and expect not to take a step back.

Aquilani, Meireles, and Poulsen haven't been able to do the job in midfield.

When Keane left, there was a hole to fill, and United were pretty poor for a while. The club splashed the cash on Carrick not because he was going to develop into a star, nor because he could replace Keane. No, they got Carrick because he was a proven performer in the Premiership who could step in and do the job right now, not in a couple years.

Unfortunately for Liverpool they need such a player, and if you want a player who is currently doing the job for another Premiership club, then you are going to have to pay extra because of the cost of losing such a player to their club.

It's not about buying English. It's about buying someone already proven in England if you don't want to take a step backwards. Liverpool now need two such players, unless either Meireles or Poulsen can get the necessary experience this season to be relied upon next season.
 
I said the moment they lost Alonso that they should've used that money on getting Huddlestone. He was the most similar player in England that was somewhat achievable, and I think he would've made a massive difference in how the last two seasons have gone for them. They desperately need that kind of deep-lying playmaker.

Now you've got to think even Spurs players are unreachable for them unless the new owners decide to splunk some serious cash (which doesn't look like happening). Spurs are a better team now and look to have a brighter future in the short-term at least.
 
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