RAWK goes into Meltdown 2010/2011

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Don't know about 'created his position'. But before Rafa, Gerrard's models for comparison were the likes of Keane and Vieira and he only once got into double figures with 10 goals in the treble season.

After rafa, his models for comparison became the likes of Nedved, he always got double figures, regularly 20+, and started collecting Player of the Year awards as well.

Part of it is of course also him maturing as a player, I'm sure he would have been world class if he had been kept groomed for his role as allround midfielder anyway. But I think Rafa correctly identified his attacking abilities as the primary features of his game and made him a better player than he he would have been by encouraging him to nurture those and think first and foremost like an attacking midfielder.
 
alastair clearly meant Rafa found Gerrard's best position. Which Rafa clearly did.
 
B9 said:
Don't know about 'created his position'. But before Rafa, Gerrard's models for comparison were the likes of Keane and Vieira and he only once got into double figures with 10 goals in the treble season.

After rafa, his models for comparison became the likes of Nedved, he always got double figures, regularly 20+, and started collecting Player of the Year awards as well.

Part of it is of course also him maturing as a player, I'm sure he would have been world class if he had been kept groomed for his role as allround midfielder anyway. But I think Rafa correctly identified his attacking abilities as the primary features of his game and made him a better player than he he would have been by encouraging him to nurture those and think first and foremost like an attacking midfielder.
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Plus, Rafa being the genius that he is, figured that if he took Gerrard out of central midfield he could eventually replace him with Lucas.
 
Rafa bought Robbie Keane to play up front behind Torres.

Keane was of course a total waste of space, so Gerrard had to play there instead, and produced some of his best form.

Rafa kind of stumbled across it after wasting £20m on Keane. Throw enough shit at a wall and some of it will stick - pretty much sums up Rafa's entire approach to team building and transfers.
 
Spammy said:
Very debatable at best, certainly not as clear cut as you make it sound.
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What's debatable?

Gerrard's best position? Who found it? Or what alastair said?

For me the first two aren't. The third alastair can clear up.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Rafa bought Robbie Keane to play up front behind Torres.

Keane was of course a total waste of space, so Gerrard had to play there instead, and produced some of his best form.

Rafa kind of stumbled across it after wasting £20m on Keane. Throw enough shit at a wall and some of it will stick - pretty much sums up Rafa's entire approach to team building and transfers.
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But in Liverpool they will prostest that Keane wasnt Rafa's signing, the board made that transfer :wenger:

The board, however, dont get the credit for bringing in Reina or Torres, that was all Rafa/God. :wenger:
 
Spammy said:
Very debatable at best, certainly not as clear cut as you make it sound.
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In what way? I think its debatable because I think his best position is out wide on the right anyway. But i'm presuming you think its behind the striker, if thats the case then didn't Rafa do that first to be fair? Or was it more pot luck, trial and error kind of thing?
 
towcester_red said:
Plus, Rafa being the genius that he is, figured that if he took Gerrard out of central midfield he could eventually replace him with Lucas.
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Your glib wumming attempt aside, what I wrote above was without regard for him playing central midfield, right midfield or behind the striker (which he actually started doing on-and-off from Rafa's first season).

He was moulded into a primarily attacking player under Benitez irrespective of where Benitez fielded him on the pitch and imo Gerrard was better off for it.
 
Spammy said:
The first one.
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Fair enough.

You think he's best on the right of midfield? Or in the centre?

On the right, I can understand. Though he hasn't played there on a regular basis for years. In the centre, I simply can not. Not disciplined enough.
 
It was a fluke though.

If Rafa got his way, in your only decent title challenging season, you'd have been playing 4-4-2 with Gareth Barry as a left winger and Robbie Keane left forward beside Torres.

Gerrard in midfield and no Alonso.
 
Kraftwerker said:
It was a fluke though.

If Rafa got his way, in your only decent title challenging season, you'd have been playing 4-4-2 with Gareth Barry as a left winger and Robbie Keane left forward beside Torres.

Gerrard in midfield and no Alonso.
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Which would have been almost as comically inept as they were during Rafa's final season in charge.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Which would have been almost as comically inept as they were during Rafa's final season in charge.
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Indeed. They were pretty much on a downward spiral from 05/06 until he accidentally stumbled across something that worked in 08/09. Then it was business as usual after he ruined that.

Some Gareth Barry left-wing action probably would have meant a straight downward trend.
 
Shit club, shit manager, hopefully they'll be reunited in the Championship and have lots of mediocre times together.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Indeed. They were pretty much on a downward spiral from 05/06 until he accidentally stumbled across something that worked in 08/09. Then it was business as usual after he ruined that.

Some Gareth Barry left-wing action probably would have meant a straight downward trend.
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Barry or Alonso Mr Benitez?

Ooh Barry please.
 
towcester_red said:
Fairpoint though isnt it? Keane's signing was blamed on the board forcing the transfer upon Rafa?

But, all the good signings, Rafa takes credit for?

hmmmmm.
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Is that true? Rafa has said himself he wanted Keane to link up with Barry hasn't he? When the Barry deal didn't go through Keane wasn't needed because he couldn't change his tactics and Keane can't play up top on his own. So effectively Benitez bought Keane and then blamed his failure on the board (obvious really) because they didn't get Barry aswell which would have made it work gloriously :rolleyes:

Benitez definately wanted Barry and Keane, I personally havn't heard many scousers deny it. If they have, yeah, its bollocks.
 
towcester_red said:
Fairpoint though isnt it? Keane's signing was blamed on the board forcing the transfer upon Rafa?
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Who blamed the board?

I have heard a theory that Benitez tried to shirk responsibility that Keane signing, which is laughable if true.

Other than that? A few fans maybe. I have never come across any personally but the way Rafa is revered by some of them, it wouldn't be particularly surprising.

But if you are talking in general, I would disagree. Wouldn't be a first though..
 
8thWonder said:
Is that true? Rafa has said himself he wanted Keane to link up with Barry hasn't he? When the Barry deal didn't go through Keane wasn't needed because he couldn't change his tactics and Keane can't play up top on his own. So effectively Benitez bought Keane and then blamed his failure on the board (obvious really) because they didn't get Barry aswell which would have made it work gloriously :rolleyes:

Benitez definately wanted Barry and Keane, I personally havn't heard many scousers deny it. If they have, yeah, its bollocks.
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Speak to some and they will have you believe Keane was Parrys signing....
 
I think when Keane flopped, there were alot of fans pinning his signing on Parry, until Rafa actually came out and said his masterplan was to sign Keane and Barry (whilst getting rid of Alonso) but he wasn't able to get Barry, so was forced to keep Alonso (poor Rafa).

I'm guessing some fans probably blamed Parry for not signing Barry then, though why they'd think that was a bad thing when it meant they kept Alonso, I've no idea.
 
Sam.G said:
Who blamed the board?

I have heard a theory that Benitez tried to shirk responsibility that Keane signing, which is laughable if true.

Other than that? A few fans maybe. I have never come across any personally but the way Rafa is revered by some of them, it wouldn't be particularly surprising.

But if you are talking in general, I would disagree. Wouldn't be a first though..
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Benitez took a surprisingly small amount of flak for spending £20m on a player, barely playing him and then moving him on for a significant loss after half a season.
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Benitez took a surprisingly small amount of flak for spending £20m on a player, barely playing him and then moving him on for a significant loss after half a season.
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You really seem to have the finger on the pulse when it comes to Liverpool fans.

Not much gets by you, Ears.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
*Sigh* Alastair and Sam G have ruined this thread. Nice one lads.
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A mod should split all the posts over last couple of weeks into a separate thread and leave this for its original purpose: laughing at RAWK.
 
Sorry, just to clear up - I didn't mean Benitez invented the second striker role, I meant it was he who told Gerrard to play in a more advanced position. I didn't make it clear.
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Benitez took a surprisingly small amount of flak for spending £20m on a player, barely playing him and then moving him on for a significant loss after half a season.
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I would say that Redknapp has taken a remarkably small amount of flak given he re-signed him, after he'd failed, and has been looking to get rid of him in every transfer window since. Benitez, rightly, got slaughtered for it.

But Keane was by no means Benitez' worst signing - that has to be Glen Johnson, given that he spent a lot of money on him, he's been really average/poor during his time at the club, and he was also a completely unnecessary purchase.
 
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