Collymore was a more talented player thsn Carroll
Newcastle fleece Liverpool for Carroll
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Collymore was a more talented player thsn Carroll
Carroll's went for a world class fee, length of time spent at the club is a factor (as is nationality) but it's a considerably inferior factor to quality.
Is Carroll at that level? Is Carroll really worth a Rooney-type fee, because he reflected the same promise of longevity and had the English tax?
£35m's a pricey move for someone like Nasri, Modric and I'm not sure he's even in their class. I do think both him and Suarez are significant acquisitions and make a lot of sense but that type of money is what I'd expect to see Suarez and Carroll come in for, not Carroll alone.
Stupid money but I have been impressed with Carroll whenever I have seen him play.
I reckon Suarez and Carroll could well turn out to be far more valuable to Liverpool than Torres would have been. No guarantee of course and Liverpool did panic but I think they could be back challenging for 5th and 4th position soon - which they certainly were not doing with Torres over the last 18 months.
I reckon Suarez and Carroll could well turn out to be far more valuable to Liverpool than Torres would have been. No guarantee of course and Liverpool did panic but I think they could be back challenging for 5th and 4th position soon - which they certainly were not doing with Torres over the last 18 months.
Carroll is a very good buy to replace Torres, in my opinion. A determined carroll is a far better player than a lacklustre and disinterested Torres, no matter how good Torres is.
I agree, as funny as it is, I think it will work out for them. To be fair, Carroll has progressed more at Newcastle than Rooney had at Everton before you spent £30 million or so on him as a teenager. The fact of the matter is, strikers who are young and have a very promising future are worth their weight in gold, going by his 11 in 19 in the league this year, if he averages 18 goals a year, stays there five years and they sell him for £20 million which is a lowball estimate than he has done pretty well for them.
Yeah all and all, Liverpool did do the best they could with all things considered, but they did just sell their best player to an 'old' rival.
£35m on Carroll is a huge gamble. The 8th most expensive player of all time in the world He's got 11 in 19 league games, fair enough if he can consistently produce that return for the next ten years. But he's not shown enough to prove he's not a flash in the pan yet. 19 goals (all comps?) in the Championship last season doesn't make you a goalscorer. He's not played in Europe and only has one cap. He's untried at the highest levels of football. If Hernandez was first choice for us, it's not unrealistic to expect the same goal return that Carroll has, but Chicha has proven himself so far on the international stage. He was £6m (tbf he'd have been double that post world cup)
He's shown he's a big strong lad who's a good focal point and can score goals thus far. But once teams "figure" him out, does he have enough quality in his game to compensate? And there are still huge doubts about his temperment off the pitch as well. It's not that Carroll is a bad signing, I think he'll be a good option to have for them but if you have £35m to spunk on a striker, would you really want to spunk it on Andy Carroll? Even if you wanted that sort of player, surely you'd wait until the summer and get him at half that price and have an extra £15m+ to spend on a quality winger?
He's shown he's a big strong lad who's a good focal point and can score goals thus far. But once teams "figure" him out, does he have enough quality in his game to compensate? And there are still huge doubts about his temperment off the pitch as well. It's not that Carroll is a bad signing, I think he'll be a good option to have for them but if you have £35m to spunk on a striker, would you really want to spunk it on Andy Carroll? Even if you wanted that sort of player, surely you'd wait until the summer and get him at half that price and have an extra £15m+ to spend on a quality winger?
I feel like I've not seen enough of Carroll if people are saying this because he's never looked to have half the talent Rooney had. His goal record's fantastic but it's too early to judge just how prolific he is as we've seen others match his output initially but eventually show their true quality, but even considering it is a true reflection of his prowess there has to be more to his game than that to be compared to Rooney, who was at that point recognised as a guaranteed star in the making.
His variety of goals is promising if not outstanding - two outside the box finishes, four headers (three set pieces), and then 5 inside the box finishes. Aside of that I don't really see any quality close to that level, his touch is reasonably tidy, he's got a decent strike from range and he's a more than competent passer but I've not seen a lot more than that. Granted there's not a lot of time to show off your skill in the build-up in such a direct and powerful team, but that works the other way in the sense that he may not be as suited to the more sophisticated and possession-dominant attacking football that you expect at a top club.
We've seen it perfectly demonstrated by Drogba how damaging raw physicality can be, but there's so much more to his game than I've yet seen from Carroll (even considering he continues his steep improvement).
Still cant believe they spent £35m on him and i found out 8 hours agoReplacing Torres with Carroll and Suarez is a pretty good move, you can see what Dalglish is doing, maybe not quite S&S, though.
However with the money they got from Torres they should have been able to get both, plus Adam's, but only getting the two and spending beyond that is bonkers. And incredibly they still have no left back.
Very, very true but considering he was 20 at the beginning of last season, give him the benefit of the doubt that he is developing - in his two years at Everton Rooney scored 17 in 77 games, of course he had that Euro 2004, but it was a massive statement to spend so much money on a teenager.
In terms of the cost, I don't think it is that big of a deal - yes transfer fees have spiralled in the last few years but so have club revenues. In 2000 their club revenue was £85 million, it is now £165 million, on that basis the liability to buy Suarez for £23 million today is less than it was to buy Emile Heskey for £11 million.
In terms of purchasing now or waiting I slightly agree with you, going to Newcastle trying to keep costs down when everyone knew they were haggling for £50million for Torres was not the best business move - in that sense Mike Ashley has been sensible despite the fact they are now light up front for the rest of the year.
The price is obviously ridiculous but I don't agree with the arguement that he is not a goalscorer.
Not because I think he is a goalscorer but because he has been bought to do alot more than that, he's a real handful and if they manage him right he could be a good player for them for the next decade or so. I think Suarez was clearly bought for goals though and we've seen mixed results from various players who have scored bucketloads in the Netherlands and failed to do it over here.
Carroll will really suit their system and tactics though.
Reina hoofs it up feild > Carroll get's a head on it > Suarez bumbles it in.
It would certainly be inkeeping with their recent traditions.
Not because I think he is a goalscorer but because he has been bought to do alot more than that, he's a real handful and if they manage him right he could be a good player for them for the next decade or so. I think Suarez was clearly bought for goals though and we've seen mixed results from various players who have scored bucketloads in the Netherlands and failed to do it over here.
Carroll will really suit their system and tactics though.
Reina hoofs it up feild > Carroll get's a head on it > Suarez bumbles it in.
It would certainly be inkeeping with their recent traditions.
feck sake..wellbeck must be worth 40 million at least..is he?...how much is chicharito worth now? 1.3 billion?? kinell
I wonder if Liverpool will switch to 4-3-3 as Suarez can play as a wide forward.
Lucas Meireles
---Gerrard
Kuyt Suarez
---Carroll
Lucas Meireles
---Gerrard
Kuyt Suarez
---Carroll
Agreed with Brwned
That is a very good post, what it comes down to effectively is that Liverpool have taken a very big gamble, but for good reason. If I were a Liverpool fan I'd be more optimistic about him than I would Suarez given that he has shown he has the raw attributes to be effective in the premier league whilst so many strikers have came to England from the Netherlands and have failed to deliver - they should know that better than anyone in Babel and Kuyt.
Never would have thought this when I was in the Stretty on the opening day of the season pissing myself at how bad Carroll was compared to the hype. He's done well since, but £35m is insane. That said, the price tag isn't his fault, so let's hope he fails full stop, not "you expect more for £35m" fails.
That's what I thought they would do as well. But a mate of mine suggested that they'd work a 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Meireless in the middle and Suarez/Carrol up front with Kuyt and Cole(or whomever) out wide.
It's still frightening that they don't have a left back!
One of those players who doesn't get the credit he deserves in my opinion. Got a good left foot and good mevement and is quicker than he looks. I suppose he's got a distinctive style of play but it seems to trouble centre halfs, dropping off and causing problems.
Probably see Liverpool change there style of play. They've been very conservative since Rafa and arguably Houllier. Might see them go after teams a bit more.
Love the way TalkSport are having a mini wank-fest and trying to justify the price tag
When questioned who was the 'better player' out of Caroll or Torres, he actually had to pause and think about it for 5 seconds before saying "Torres is, BUT... Carroll is younger and has bags of potential"
Typical.
When questioned who was the 'better player' out of Caroll or Torres, he actually had to pause and think about it for 5 seconds before saying "Torres is, BUT... Carroll is younger and has bags of potential"
Typical.
A player like Carroll, with his style of play will always be stereotyped but you can't deny he's been effective and the catalyst for Newcastle's season. He's a difficult player to play against and it may not be glamourous but it seems to get results.
A possible comparison is Chelsea spending £24 million on Drogba - most people would have balked at that at the time.
I can't see how you can compare him to Modric or Nasri being different players, and would also suggest that both would cost more than £35 million to any buying club on current form, given that only a few clubs would have the pull to sign them.
The question is weather Carroll is worth what Rooney was, but don't forget how long ago Rooney was signed and what a huge fee it was then, as well as the fact that United paid for raw potential, which to be fair to him, he has arguably still not fullfilled.
I think Liverpool maybe paid more than they would in the Summer, but a good end to the season may have started an auction pushing the price higher. It also goes a long way to appeasing the fans and giving the season a boost - and they've only spent £8 million net.
Em he actually played quite well that day and the hype wasn't really all that much at the time either
On a side note though, yes the money was absolutely ridiculous for a player who has shown no more than some potential.
Ok, my mistake. But Vidic did, arguably teh player (and certainly defender) of the PL this year and Carroll did a great job upfront on his own and made space for a couple of decent chances.
He's more than justified his fee and looks like a bargain now compared to some of these insane fees in today's inflated market.
Let's put this into perspective..
James Milner 28m
Darren Bent 24m
Andy Carroll 35m
SWP 25m
..
Wayne Rooney 27m
The most interesting part of all of this is Carroll apparently claiming he's been forced out. Ashley looks to have done what the papers suggested he would and taken the money at the expense of the club. I'd love to see them go down now, though they'll probably be saved by the fact there are teams much worse off than them. But not having a striker lined up is madness, even someone like Piquionne at a few million quid would have made a difference.
Where did I say I thought he was worth that money? Clearly they've paid over the top because of the circumstances they were in, under pressure to repalce their star player with a very limited time frame. United have paid over the odds on numerous occaisions for players but if teh payer turns out to be decent nobody will care.
What I'm saying is that he's a very good player who'll make an impact, and also that I think he could go on to justify the price tag based on the potential he has. Like I said - Rooney cost £27 million as a kid, but if you get a decade or more out of him at the top level its a good investment when you consider the amount of £10 million players who don't make the grade or are come and gone in a season or two.
As for resale value we've seen Darren Bent go for however many tens of millions over his career, even though he's a very limited player. Never under estimate what people will pay for a goalscorer. Even Drogba at 30 could have been sold for more than they paid for him, despite it being a substantial amount.
Every pundit on the TV and Radio seems to rave about Carroll so clearly people in the game rate him. He may be a risk but the fans seem happy and no doubt he's an exciting player.
He should, considering he is 4 years older than Rooney was when we bought him.
Means feck all. Every pundit was raving about James Milner and he went for £28m and has shown himself to be an average player, who went for an incredible amount of money.
Ask any scouser if they would have taken this several weeks ago, they would have had a heart attack.
Then you throw in the prices....
I'm not sure how it can be argued about Carroll vs Torres, one is a class above, and looks it. The other is Andy Carroll.
Then you throw in the prices....
I'm not sure how it can be argued about Carroll vs Torres, one is a class above, and looks it. The other is Andy Carroll.
Not so sure about that. In terms of goals per game yes, in terms of all round play I think it's debatable. Rooney was 18, Carroll is what 21/22?
Rooney was England's best player at Euro 2004 and arguably the player of the tournament. Fergie payed over the odds and purchased him before he really wanted to. The reason he did this was to stop Newcastle from buying him.
Nah, come on Bri we're not having that. Rooney had just ripped the euros apart there was no doubting his talent. Rooney was a freak for his age though and its not fair to compare them. Carroll is good but still has it all to prove imo
I think Carroll is a good signing and you can't really judge the fee given the circumstances pool were in. Torres leaving so late in the window for such a publicly high fee gave newcastle all the bargaining power and they did briliantly to get so much for him.
Although he'll be playing with better players, opposing teams will usually play a more defensive game than they ever did against Newcastle. He'll have much less space to play his game and will also be a marked man. Even more so with his price tag.
His off field issues will also be a matter of concern. Although he'll be away from his mates in Newcastle which might be a blessing.
His off field issues will also be a matter of concern. Although he'll be away from his mates in Newcastle which might be a blessing.
But he'll be with Gerrard and hanging about Liverpool at the weekend.
Yep.
£6million, £7million, either way he's a fantastic bargain.
Jim Lawlor deserves a bonus.
The difference is Rooney was 18 years old and there was no doubting he would become a top, top player if he wasn't already because let's face it he had already proven himself at the highest level and against the best in the league. Judging Rooney based on his goal return is also pretty pointless as he brings so much more to the team than just goals, this was especially true during his time at Everton and in his partnership with Van Nistelrooy where his job was to create goals more than score them himself. He was a scorer of great goals rather than a great goal scorer.
In any case not all 77 of those games were starts so it's hardly a relevant statistic especially considering he was an England regular from the age of 17 whereas at 22 Carroll is only on the fringes after barely playing 30 top flight games.
Good point.
If United showed interest in Carroll, I know I would have been disappointed at any price. Had they spent anywhere in the region of 35 Million I'd have said Gill was mentally disturbed.
Probably not the right thread but in order for Carroll move to work Liverpool badly need to buy a decent winger with real pace.
Actually in this particular case, I think it might work out for them. Something tells me Liverpool will get a decent return out of him. He'll give them a huge target to aim at up front, and if you can roll the ball to him, he's pretty useful with his feet too. The only problem is, they haven't got the wingers to use his aerial prowess fully, and might take time to gel with a striker who'll probaby be struggling to find his feet for a while. This will get sorted out in time though.
35mil is a lot of money, but maybe it matters less when you've just been dumped 50mil for a disinterested, demotivated striker.
35mil is a lot of money, but maybe it matters less when you've just been dumped 50mil for a disinterested, demotivated striker.
I think when a team has an obvious target man, it's often tempting to just punt long balls at them. I don't think the Liverpool fans will take too kindly to route 1 football up to Carroll with Suarez feeding on knock downs and flick ons.
It's obviously pure speculation, but it might happen.
It's obviously pure speculation, but it might happen.
with 'carra!' in the back, the temptation is just too strong. regardless of what ck says, carragher will keep punting up to carroll. not to mention stevie hollywood gerrard and his 60 yard hopefuls.