Doubtful because it probably means our best player this season would not have been playing his best position. But we missed him a lot when it comes to being able to rest players and in any matches that Nani missed.
Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request
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Doubtful because it probably means our best player this season would not have been playing his best position. But we missed him a lot when it comes to being able to rest players and in any matches that Nani missed.
No, Adzz is certainly correct. Definitely would have performed better in at least some of those away games we drew if we had Valencia available. If even a couple of games had been wins instead of draws then the title would have been sorted.
But you can't make too much of it because Arsenal would have been a hell of a lot better if Vermaelan had not been injured for example.
Berbatov rarely uses his left to pass or shoot, but he'll sometimes use it when controlling the ball or when dribbling. Valencia doesn't unless it is pretty much impossible to somehow get his right there first.
He played brilliantly, he's one of our most composed players on the ball and as a result he's also one of our most consistent, and consistency isn't something you'd usually relate to a winger.
Hope we see him up against Ashley Cole, tore him a new in the Community Shield.
Hope we see him up against Ashley Cole, tore him a new in the Community Shield.
He passes with his left a fair bit. Even puts in the odd cross. Look at the assist yesterday. That wasn't the pass of a bloke who only ever passes with one foot.
I know I'm labouring the point here but I think his one-footedness is hugely exaggerated. It's certainly no worse than, for example, Giggs, Evra and Berbatov.
Giggs (these days anyway) is far more two-footed than the others.
Maybe I do exaggerate how one-footed Valencia is in my own mind. But the thing is, when he put that left footed cross in I instantly took note it was with that foot, even before Rooney made something of it. Same with the time he controlled it with his left in the first half. Both times I instantly thought 'wow, that's a collector's edition'. I remember we were a couple of months into last season before I saw him use his left foot for the first time. If he did it fairly often I wouldn't have that reaction, like I don't when it's Evra or Berbatov.
I'll try to take more note of it over the next few games.
Really? I'm not saying being one footed is bad or anything but he does everything possible not to use his left.
The least two-footed out of all our players. Berbatov will shoot with his left if he has to, Toni V.. exceptionally rare he uses his left foot, and yet as a winger its such a great tool to have. As we saw against the hammers, his ball to Rooney could only have come about by using his other foot and hopefully its a sign to come of him developing this side of his game.
Left backs i.e. Evra, are rarely two-footed and it doesn't really affect their game as they're usually bombing on the overlap and just expected to put in first time crosses rather than cut in and score goals, although someone like Fabio would need to be two-footed if he is to suceed at left back.
Giggs is pretty two footed and isn't afraid to use it, and use it with abit of class.
He uses his left, although rarely, to cross the ball into the box. So he's using it to kick a longer distance than Berbatov ever does.
Berbatov only uses it to shoot and he usually chooses to use the outside of his right foot instead, same as Valencia. When he does shoot with it he usually does a good job, same as Valencia when he chooses to cross with his left
In away games we tend to play 1 up front, and Nani creates match defining moments from the right more often than Valencia. He's the one who is able to create goals or score goals when we have a single striker and, usually have a few problems creating lots of chances. We have needed those goals and contributions. On the left he just doesnt seem to produce them as often, so its been a blessing having him on the right for an extended strech, regardless of the reason. And its also seen the best of Rafael.
The original post in this thread is looking a bit mental now.
Tony Valencia is ok in my book. Great to see him back & providing some ammo down that wing.
Tony Valencia is ok in my book. Great to see him back & providing some ammo down that wing.
Its still apt. If he was a great crosser he'd be unstoppable. Best player at the club imo.
But he isnt. Absolutely brilliant until the actual part where he has to put the ball in though. Only a handful of wingers as good at taking on players at pace and passing the ball around.
You just will not give up on your "Valencia can't cross" bullshit, will you?
You've backed yourself into a corner where the only way you can avoid admitting you're wrong about his inability to cross is by pretending that the rest of his game is world class to compensate for it. "Best player at the club" if he could cross, says you. FFS.
Your complete inability to admit you were ever wrong about anything borders on a mental illness. Get a grip, man, for crying out loud.
Got through an immense amount of work yesterday...
Valencia Match Stats v W. Ham:
54/74 Successful Passes, 7/9 Tackles won, 1 Interception.
Valencia Match Stats v W. Ham:
54/74 Successful Passes, 7/9 Tackles won, 1 Interception.
Tbf i'm with you Nani is a better crosser. He has more range.
I wouldn't say one is better than the other, they both just have different techniques.
Nanis is all about whip and pace whereas Valencia just sort of floats the ball into a dangerous area. I think when Nani gets it right his crossing is a bit more deadly but I think Valencia is a bit more consistent.
There it is.
I do think Valencia's ridiculously one-footed, personally. I think you could literally count the amount of touches he has on his left a season on two hands, maybe the number of touches he's ever had for us.
I don't think it matters though, I'd say if anything his one-footedness is possibly part of the reason he's got such balance at pace because it's a theme with players of that sort - very strong runners. I don't think it restricts him from playing on the left. I don't even think it makes him predictable.
I don't think it matters though, I'd say if anything his one-footedness is possibly part of the reason he's got such balance at pace because it's a theme with players of that sort - very strong runners. I don't think it restricts him from playing on the left. I don't even think it makes him predictable.
He puts the ball into the box more than any of our other wingers. But gets less assists than Nani or Giggs and countless other premier league wingers who put the ball in less and have worse strikers to aim at than super-in-form Rooney
Your claims just dont make any sense whatsoever.
By the way, I'm not pretending. I didnt think he was going to be as good as he is, I got that wrong and have admitted it. He's absolutely brilliant at taking his man on, barely ever loses the ball when he does so. But if he just had Nani's crossing, or Baines' crossing, or someone who really does put great chances on a plate every few crosses, then he would be unstoppable. Because he rarely ever lets us down to that point. Just a handful of performances where he hasnt looked on his game and really gone at the defender, choosing to pass it about instead. Say about 9/10 he gives his fullback nightmares, but that just doesnt mean that he consistantly produces match defining moments and goals.
I dont see how theres even a debate.
In the same team and from the same position, Nani puts the ball into the box less often than Valencia but creates lots more goals.
If thats not an definition for being a better crosser, then what is?
Nani gets lots of assists for smashing the ball at the keeper who fumbles for a tap in.
I'd say most of his assists are from that scenario tbh.
I'd say most of his assists are from that scenario tbh.
You might say that, but its not true.
Unless you want to go and count them and prove me wrong
One, against Bolton...other than that I can't think of any..
Yes but thats one more than Valencia's ever smashed at a goalkeeper, and nobody has ever got the rebound on his shots!
Yes but thats one more than Valencia's ever smashed at a goalkeeper, and nobody has ever got the rebound on his shots!
Considering he's been injured for the best part of the season, that vilification is pretty inaccurate
His re-entry into the side has been such a welcome bonus. I never expected him to make himself so integral, so quickly. Such a massive bonus. He, along with Park, makes us a different animal in Europe...
His stamina is pretty ridiculous. Its one thing to be back and looking fairly sharp, but not needing to be taken off after an hour each game is amazing. To have that cardio already, well I'd have written it off completely.
Personally I was expecting to see the Valencia we saw when he first came to United where his technique wasnt looking good and he just looked like a physical player with pace and power. But no, he might not be on the absolute top of his game but he looks like a player who missed maybe a couple of weeks not many months.
Personally I was expecting to see the Valencia we saw when he first came to United where his technique wasnt looking good and he just looked like a physical player with pace and power. But no, he might not be on the absolute top of his game but he looks like a player who missed maybe a couple of weeks not many months.
Agreed. His conditioning is incredible. He looks in better shape than he ever did last season, and that's some achievement seeing as he was a brick shit house before. He's obviously really looked after himself during his recuperation - proper credit to him.
That was in February. He's since had two assists - the cross for Chicharito's goal against Wigan and the pass for Rooney's against Chelsea.
I was pretty confident of him coming back strong and not needing too much bedding in, but he's surpassed even my expectations in how strong he looks. Rio tweeted a few times about what a beast he is in the gym, throwing weights around like it's nothing and I know he was doing a shit load of cardio work even fairly soon after he sustained in the injury by using the underwater treadmill so there was no weight put on his ankle.
Some serious dedication has gone into keeping his fitness up, much credit to him.
Some serious dedication has gone into keeping his fitness up, much credit to him.
Hmm. So basically in Feb alone Nani has created as many goals from right sided crosses as Valencia got all last season - at least in the prem.
I agree completely with this. Even when he comes on the inside he uses the outside of his boot and even when he plays a simple ball back to the fullback where most people would open their body and play it with the insole of their left, he will always try to use his right.
As you said he can only do this because he's supremely strong and fast and it makes a huge difference to have someone who can carry the ball like that, which is one of the things we've missed with Ronaldo aside from his goals.
With all our injuries, this is by far the shining light, its good to see him back for united. It certainly improves our attacking options.
Stats are a wonderful thing, used to "prove" an argument like saying Nani is the better crosser because he has more assists than Valencia. For instance the Rooney winner against City took a deflection - his cross was going a lot more towards goal at the point, same with Nani's cross for Berba's overhead against Liverpool, it took a deflection. Number of assists don't tell the story but, you can at least use it to show the player is actively involved in creating goals, can't just say well the stat proves he is the best crosser.
End of the day you look at just the West Ham game and you'll see how many dangerous balls Valencia put in because he is an excellent crosser, because he didn't get an outright assist doesn't make a lot of those crosses any worse. Both him and Nani are excellent wingers that provide quality supply to our forwards. Him and Nani against Chelsea are really going to be a big difference because now Chelsea can't easily double up on Nani.
End of the day you look at just the West Ham game and you'll see how many dangerous balls Valencia put in because he is an excellent crosser, because he didn't get an outright assist doesn't make a lot of those crosses any worse. Both him and Nani are excellent wingers that provide quality supply to our forwards. Him and Nani against Chelsea are really going to be a big difference because now Chelsea can't easily double up on Nani.
You can when the stat is so decisive. Sorry if its a similar amount of matches and a similar amount of assists, fair enough.
When one player creates 9 goals in Feb, and the other creates 9 goals in his whole premier league season you simply cannot dispute it. Its too clear cut.
When one player creates 9 goals in Feb, and the other creates 9 goals in his whole premier league season you simply cannot dispute it. Its too clear cut.
Also, West Ham is the perfect example. Yes Valencia put a couple of good balls in, one of which was crying out for somebody to tap it in as it went right across the six yard box.
When you have one striker up front its not good enough to put a good ball in. You need a great cross to pick that one man out because he's outnumbered and can only be in one place. Nani has consistantly produced even when we have 1 man up front. He's capable of putting that great cross in and picking out our only striker. Valencia hasnt proven he can do this consistantly.
When you have one striker up front its not good enough to put a good ball in. You need a great cross to pick that one man out because he's outnumbered and can only be in one place. Nani has consistantly produced even when we have 1 man up front. He's capable of putting that great cross in and picking out our only striker. Valencia hasnt proven he can do this consistantly.
He sure did last year
Obviously I can dispute it because I am. It is only clear cut in your mind because you want it to be. Perhaps you are hung up on that if Valencia is deemed as dangerous a crosser as Nani, it would diminish Nani. It doesn't.
How many of those 9 assists were from crosses? How many were crosses that didn't get deflected? You are using the assist stat as flat out an indicator of how much better of a crosser Nani is and it's such a big reach because it in no way proves that. What it does prove is that Nani has been at the heart of a lot of our goals in that period and one of our most reliable attackers. Anything beyond that is just a reach.
Watch last season again and notice the difference between Nani at the start of the season and when he came about. Valencia was doing what Nani wasn't, which was looking up and seeing where players were, he didn't blindly throw balls into the box like you are implying. He looks for our strikers or where they'll be moving to or should be making a run for given the space he sees. Coincidence or not but, I made the point several times last season when people were on Nani's back, once he takes a page from from Valencia's book and picks his head up more and looks for our players, he'll be far better, he started doing that. I said maybe the time he is spending out he'll learn from watching Valencia - and coincidentally he did come back with a little more thought to his crossing than he had before. If it was from watching Tony V or not - no clue.
Remember the game at the San Siro last season when Nani just kept putting in crosses to dangerous areas but, not really looking to pick out players in particular and then got subbed off only for Valencia to come on and look up and find Rooney at the far post?
To me watching games both players create a lot of opportunities via their crossing, it is hard for me to say one is better than the other from what I see on the pitch in that regard.
.. naming two deflected crosses. How about his beckham esque balls for Rooney Against Villa and Vidic against Villa.
I think Nani whips the undefenderbale cross whilst Valencia whips in more lofters. But like you said him and Nani against Chelsea should be frightening however i can see 1 up front and Park as part of a midfield 3.
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