RAWK goes into Meltdown 2010/2011

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Sam.G said:
You could never label a current Utd side under Ferguson 'no-hopers'
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Yet that's exactly what you did with your 'out of the running' comment.

In October.

Your squirming and back-tracking just makes it more amusing.

If you'd said 'I think United will be in the running for every major trophy until the end of the season then narrowly miss out' that wouldn't have been as silly.

But you didn't, you said we were out of the running.
 
I still can't fathom out how an average team is sitting at the top of the Prem, in the FA Cup semi final this weekend and has a Champions League semi final coming up.

The term 'average' coming from a Liverpool fan, who is watching his beloved team fight for 6th place (an improvement on last season, granted) and have been knocked out of all the major cups before anyone really takes notice.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Yet that's exactly what you did with your 'out of the running' comment.

In October.

Your squirming and back-tracking just makes it more amusing.

If you'd said 'I think United will be in the running for every major trophy until the end of the season then narrowly miss out' that wouldn't have been as silly.

But you didn't, you said we were out of the running.
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Yes, you're right, Red.

I'm backtracking and genuinely thought Utd were no-hopers and, in all probability, would be relegated by February.

ps. You and the Chief are both insane.
 
Talking Vulture said:
I still can't fathom out how an average team is sitting at the top of the Prem, in the FA Cup semi final this weekend and has a Champions League semi final coming up.
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It's all relative.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.

But take a step back for a minute, stop feeling so persecuted, actually read my posts and comprehend what they're saying.
 
You're not shit, you're the best of an average bunch, TV. Should you win the league of course. Failing that, you'll be the second best of an average bunch.
 
Thing is, for me, the chasing pack have improved. Its not just a big 4 anymore, its a big 6. City and Spurs have crashed the party.

We arent as good as the team of 2008 but we arent average.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Yup, pretty much.

Unless you have a different definition for 'out of the running' to every single other person, which I doubt. You were just writing us off, you just can't admit it, even though it's there in black and white.
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And this will go on and on and on until I stop, right?

I would love to see you and the Chief on opposing sides of an argument. It would last for a decade or two.

At least.
 
Sam - honestly I don't give a feck what anyone thinks of our current squad/team. I know we're good enough and we're proving it thus far this season.

I just know every fecking scouser is dreading us winning that title and the possibilty of us winning the EC will tip a few of the feckers over the edge :D
 
I'm sick to death of hearing this utter utter bollocks about the winners this year being winners of an average league, or 'winners by default' or other such severely stupid nonsense. Has it never occurred to people that the standard of the top few teams is not the only way to measure the quality of a league? You think that Barca and Madrid being a million miles ahead of everyone else in La Liga makes them the best of an outstanding bunch?

Is it so far beyond your comprehension that a more competitive all round league, with more fight from lower positioned teams will result in those at the top having fewer points than may usually be expected? Look at the bottom half of the table, it's split by a handful of points, not because the whole league has turned to shit, but because the overall standard has improved and the lower teams are taking it to the big boys more than we've become used to seeing.
 
R Nick - too sensible for scousers that. They can sleep easily knowing they're on the rise and we're on the decline and they'll reach 20 titles before we do :D

Absolute bonkers they are
 
Sam.G said:
And this will go on and on and on until I stop, right?

I would love to see you and the Chief on opposing sides of an argument. It would last for a decade or two.

At least.
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You're one of the most argumentative posters on here. Every single day you're involved in some petty squabble, for instance, today you decided to get yourself embroiled in a spat by labelling United average.

So why do you get all defensive when someone pulls you up on your bullshit? You expect to be given special status and not be challenged when you say retarded things?

If you're going to say stupid controversial things just to get a reaction, don't cry when it's thrown back in your face.
 
R_Nick said:
I'm sick to death of hearing this utter utter bollocks about the winners this year being winners of an average league, or 'winners by default' or other such severely stupid nonsense. Has it never occurred to people that the standard of the top few teams is not the only way to measure the quality of a league? You think that Barca and Madrid being a million miles ahead of everyone else in La Liga makes them the best of an outstanding bunch?

Is it so far beyond your comprehension that a more competitive all round league, with more fight from lower positioned teams will result in those at the top having fewer points than may usually be expected? Look at the bottom half of the table, it's split by a handful of points, not because the whole league has turned to shit, but because the overall standard has improved and the lower teams are taking it to the big boys more than we've become used to seeing.
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Look, all I'm saying is the top teams aren't as strong as previous years. People are getting awfully uppity over that and I think it's ridiculous they refuse to hear anything they think may resemble criticism. And it's not even a fecking criticism, it's merely an observation using relative measures. Grow a set of fecking balls is my advice. Not to you personally but to anyone feeling persecuted over this.

Whoever wins the league will still deserve it. They don't have to be the best team of the past decade, just the best team that season.
 
R_Nick said:
I'm sick to death of hearing this utter utter bollocks about the winners this year being winners of an average league, or 'winners by default' or other such severely stupid nonsense. Has it never occurred to people that the standard of the top few teams is not the only way to measure the quality of a league? You think that Barca and Madrid being a million miles ahead of everyone else in La Liga makes them the best of an outstanding bunch?

Is it so far beyond your comprehension that a more competitive all round league, with more fight from lower positioned teams will result in those at the top having fewer points than may usually be expected? Look at the bottom half of the table, it's split by a handful of points, not because the whole league has turned to shit, but because the overall standard has improved and the lower teams are taking it to the big boys more than we've become used to seeing.
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You have to ignore this...

Everyone thought last season was our last big hurrah, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Liverpool fans all thought, with our additions coming into the season

-some bloke off the streets
-some weird mexican who no one had used on FM
-yet another no name, who couldn't even play for Fulham regularly

and then, Rooney having the awful start to the season, and then Rooneygate, we would fall apart.

Except the opposite has happened,

-Liverpool shat themselves
-City play with 3 DMs
-Chelsea had their own meltdown
-Arsenal went from competing in 4 comps to 1 in a matter of days

Yet, the worst team ever, keeping plugging along. :D

Can you imagine how much this much get on their nerves, so the convenient answer is...OMG DA LEAGUE IS SHIT.

I say, feck 'em.
 
Sam.G said:
Look, all I'm saying is the top teams aren't as strong as previous years. People are getting awfully uppity over that and I think it's ridiculous they refuse to hear anything they think may resemble criticism. And it's not even a fecking criticism, it's merely an observation using relative measures. Grow a set of fecking balls is my advice. Not to you personally but to anyone feeling persecuted over this.

Whoever wins the league will still deserve it. They don't have to be the best team of the past decade, just the best team that season.
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I hear what you're saying Sam. I think you make some very fair points here. You are entitled also to your views and are a good egg in my book.

You know what genuinely worries me? The thought that if (please) we do go on to seal the title, someone were to say to me this is the last one for the next 20 years and Liverpool are about to win 12 of the next 20, I'd dismiss this as an hilarious idea.... then I'd think back to 1990 when I suspect this idea would have made Liverpool fans cry with laughter. :o

I'm not sure the fact that I saw a number of title free United years prior to 1993 will allow me to deal with another spell of mediocrity
 
BTV_is_neutral said:
You have to ignore this...

Everyone thought last season was our last big hurrah, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and Liverpool fans all thought, with our additions coming into the season

-some bloke off the streets
-some weird mexican who no one had used on FM
-yet another no name, who couldn't even play for Fulham regularly

and then, Rooney having the awful start to the season, and then Rooneygate, we would fall apart.

Except the opposite has happened,

-Liverpool shat themselves
-City play with 3 DMs
-Chelsea had their own meltdown
-Arsenal went from competing in 4 comps to 1 in a matter of days

Yet, the worst team ever, keeping plugging along. :D

Can you imagine how much this much get on their nerves, so the convenient answer is...OMG DA LEAGUE IS SHIT.

I say, feck 'em.
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Good post.
 
Kraftwerker said:
today you decided to get yourself embroiled in a spat by labelling United average.
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My actual quote was "the winners of the league will be the best of an average bunch".

Utd fans have clearly taken it upon themselves to deign Utd the league winners already and as such have taken umbrage at me calling Utd 'average'.

Saying that, and as I have said to SH, I don't think this is one of Utd's best sides of the past 10 years. you may disagree and that's fine by me.

Right, that will do, Red. No more joy to be gotten here with you.
 
Good advice BTV.

I'm struggling to think of a season when United won the league when Liverpool fans didn't try to claim it was because everyone else was shit, except perhaps in 2009 when they were 2nd - ironically the league actually was a bit shit that year (Scolari at Chelsea, United scoring record few goals, Arsenal nowhere near as good as now), hence why Liverpool were in the running. :lol:
 
GaryLifo said:
I hear what you're saying Sam. I think you make some very fair points here. You are entitled also to your views and are a good egg in my book.

You know what genuinely worries me? The thought that if (please) we do go on to seal the title, someone were to say to me this is the last one for the next 20 years and Liverpool are about to win 12 of the next 20, I'd dismiss this as an hilarious idea.... then I'd think back to 1990 when I suspect this idea would have made Liverpool fans cry with laughter. :o

I'm not sure the fact that I saw a number of title free United years prior to 1993 will allow me to deal with another spell of mediocrity
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Cheers, Gary.

For the record, I think Ferguson has built some fantastic sides over his reign, playing the very best football. But, for me, the difference this season is Ferguson himself. I think he could probably take any one of the top 4 squads and he would win the title with them such is his influence. The guy is incredible and the mentality he instils in his sides bugs me no end. They just don't know when they're beaten.

I still believe I'm right, mind, and the top teams are not as strong as they have been. However insulted and persecuted people feel on here by that observation.

Next year's league, though, I think will be a cracker
 
towcester_red said:
:lol: couldnt help but laugh at that, Sam.

Did Gerrard rent you the words 'next year' ;)
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hehe.

I am not sure we'll be challenging for a top 4 spot next season, but I think Chelsea and City will be stronger and I always think Arsenal will be better. But somehow, they're always the same; flattering only to eventually deceive. That would change if they scrambled over the line this season though.
 
Sam.G said:
Look, all I'm saying is the top teams aren't as strong as previous years. People are getting awfully uppity over that and I think it's ridiculous they refuse to hear anything they think may resemble criticism. And it's not even a fecking criticism, it's merely an observation using relative measures. Grow a set of fecking balls is my advice. Not to you personally but to anyone feeling persecuted over this.

Whoever wins the league will still deserve it. They don't have to be the best team of the past decade, just the best team that season.
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I know what you're saying, what gave you the impression I didn't understand it? I haven't failed to follow your meaning, I'm saying it's a load of shite, I'm able to understand you and point out you being wrong at the same time, you know?

It's got nothing to do with 'an observation using relative measures', it's interpreting certain things with only one eye open. You think that the only measure of the strength of a league is the number of points accumulated by the front runners. You basically ignore 90% of the league when assessing the quality of the league. Can you not see how thoroughly stupid that is? Seriously?

And what does 'growing a set of balls' have to do with anything? How is that comment even remotely relevant to the discussion? You make a stupid assertion and what? Everyone is supposed to pat you on the back and say well done otherwise we lack balls? Make an argument or don't, Sam, but don't play the victim when you're called up on spouting nonsense.
 
Sam.G said:
Cheers, Gary.

For the record, I think Ferguson has built some fantastic sides over his reign, playing the very best football. But, for me, the difference this season is Ferguson himself. I think he could probably take any one of the top 4 squads and he would win the title with them such is his influence. The guy is incredible and the mentality he instils in his sides bugs me no end. They just don't know when they're beaten.

I still believe I'm right, mind, and the top teams are not as strong as they have been. However insulted and persecuted people feel on here by that observation.

Next year's league, though, I think will be a cracker
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When were they better recently?

Last season? Hardly, United are much better this time round, as are Arsenal. City and Spurs are just as good if not better.

2009? Don't make me laugh.
 
Sam.G said:
hehe.

I am not sure we'll be challenging for a top 4 spot next season, but I think Chelsea and City will be stronger and I always think Arsenal will be better. But somehow, they're always the same; flattering only to eventually deceive. That would change if they scrambled over the line this season though.
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I think we will invest in the summer too, should be interesting.

But, if we have 19 by then who cares!

Whether you compete depends on a number of factors, keeping Reina for one. Signing Enrique if thats true is a great signing, best left back in the league this season imo.
 
R_Nick said:
I know what you're saying, what gave you the impression I didn't understand it? I haven't failed to follow your meaning, I'm saying it's a load of shite, I'm able to understand you and point out you being wrong at the same time, you know?

It's got nothing to do with 'an observation using relative measures', it's interpreting certain things with only one eye open. You think that the only measure of the strength of a league is the number of points accumulated by the front runners. You basically ignore 90% of the league when assessing the quality of the league. Can you not see how thoroughly stupid that is? Seriously?

And what does 'growing a set of balls' have to do with anything? How is that comment even remotely relevant to the discussion? You make a stupid assertion and what? Everyone is supposed to pat you on the back and say well done otherwise we lack balls? Make an argument or don't, Sam, but don't play the victim when you're called up on spouting nonsense.
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Not familiar with his work then?
 
R_Nick said:
I
It's got nothing to do with 'an observation using relative measures', it's interpreting certain things with only one eye open. You think that the only measure of the strength of a league is the number of points accumulated by the front runners. You basically ignore 90% of the league when assessing the quality of the league. Can you not see how thoroughly stupid that is? Seriously?
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Oh the league maybe closer in quality for sure but a competitive league doesn't equate to a higher quality one, it just equates to a closer fought one.
 
R_Nick said:
Define a high quality league for us then, Sam.
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High quality teams = high quality league.

I think the quality of the top teams' squads is not as good as it has been in previous years therefore I think the quality of the title winner's squad does not have to be as good as previous years.

It's all subjective and, as I have said to others, if you think this Utd side is as good as previous morphs, I don't agree personally but am happy to let it lie.
 
Sam.G said:
High quality teams = high quality league.

I think the quality of the top teams' squads is not as good as it has been in previous years therefore I think the quality of the title winner's squad does not have to be as good as previous years.

It's all subjective and, as I have said to others, if you think this Utd side is as good as previous morphs, I don't agree personally but am happy to let it lie.
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Which league seasons were higher quality and why?

Using the last 10 years as your sample.
 
Sam.G said:
High quality teams = high quality league.

I think the quality of the top teams' squads is not as good as it has been in previous years therefore I think the quality of the title winner's squad does not have to be as good as previous years.

It's all subjective and, as I have said to others, if you think this Utd side is as good as previous morphs, I don't agree personally but am happy to let it lie.
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And yet when the quality of the lower teams rises, and thus the overall quality of the league increases, you say that the league is weaker because the top teams have what you consider weaker squads?

You realise you're making no sense here, right?

A league is every team in that league. You can't base your assessment of the quality of the league solely on the perceived quality of the squads of the top few teams, you just can't!

Do you consider La Liga to be a strong league?
 
Sam.G said:
Look, all I'm saying is the top teams aren't as strong as previous years. People are getting awfully uppity over that and I think it's ridiculous they refuse to hear anything they think may resemble criticism. And it's not even a fecking criticism, it's merely an observation using relative measures. Grow a set of fecking balls is my advice. Not to you personally but to anyone feeling persecuted over this.

Whoever wins the league will still deserve it. They don't have to be the best team of the past decade, just the best team that season.
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So by your thinking with the top teams not as strong & liverpool a further 20 points behind - even under king kenny laaaaa - that makes you even more shite than usual - by your thinking that is!!:wenger:
 
R_Nick said:
And yet when the quality of the lower teams rises, and thus the overall quality of the league increases, you say that the league is weaker because the top teams have what you consider weaker squads?

You realise you're making no sense here, right?

A league is every team in that league. You can't base your assessment of the quality of the league solely on the perceived quality of the squads of the top few teams, you just can't!

Do you consider La Liga to be a strong league?
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I'm drawing a distinction between competitive and quality. Of which there most definitely is one. I am sure some of the lesser European leagues are competitive but they says nothing of their quality.

But I definitely agree the strength of the league is spread across the league and not just represented by the top sides. In that sense, I guess I am comparing the quality of the top sides to their previous morphs. The top 4 teams now are weaker than 3/4 seasons ago - the results in the CL bear this out for me. And looking at their respective squads bears this out also. The bottom teams conversely appear (to me) stronger, making the league more competitive but not necessarily higher in quality. Which I really don't think it is. Definitely in the sense of winning it anyway - I really don't think you (one) needs to be as strong as in previous years. Conversely, you probably have to stronger to stay up such have the relative strengths compacted.

Does this even make sense or have I just contradicted myself all over the place? I think I still agree with my original point. It still stands. I think. Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and City are not as good as the comparative top 4 in previous seasons. Meaning you don't have be as strong as previous years to win the league.
 
R_Nick said:
And yet when the quality of the lower teams rises, and thus the overall quality of the league increases, you say that the league is weaker because the top teams have what you consider weaker squads?

You realise you're making no sense here, right?

A league is every team in that league. You can't base your assessment of the quality of the league solely on the perceived quality of the squads of the top few teams, you just can't!

Do you consider La Liga to be a strong league?
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I think the distinction has to be made.

La Liga is not a strong league, but a league with a couple of very strong teams.

I'd say the Premier League is a stronger league than La Liga. You think of a mid-table side in each playing each other. I'd go for the PL team to win that.

But PL doesn't have necessarily stronger top teams than La Liga (well we all know this Barca > Top 3 arguably, with RM in there too.)
 
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