It's going backwards, because the team quit on Mourinho. The team hasn't quit on OGS, and he is doing about as well as Mourinho was, when the players stopped playing for him.
12 months since Mourinho was sacked and we've arguably gone backwards
- Thread starter Di Maria's angel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's going backwards, because the team quit on Mourinho. The team hasn't quit on OGS, and he is doing about as well as Mourinho was, when the players stopped playing for him.
Our top scorer was deadwood? No. Deadwood is Darmian who barely played last season. Sanchez isn't most certainly gone, someone needs to buy him. Until then he's got a contract until 2023.
We extended contracts with Jones, Young, Mata. I'd say we've rather done more of containing deadwood than getting rid of it.
A much better campaign than what we're showing right now.
We have a team full of internationals, a team worth many millions of pounds, a team earning probably the most in the league.
What do we have?
We're currently sitting 6th in the league. *If* Palace win their game in hand, they'll be on the same points as us. We're on the same points as a newly promoted side who have spent very little in the summer. We're 3 points above Newcastle.
We're 14 points behind second place, all while buying their best defender for 80million.
14 points off top, yet 10 points off being in the bottom 3.
If you think that's acceptable, then great, I'm glad you're thrilled with this side. Me on the other hand think it's a joke that people accept this.
We've got internationals in every position on the pitch, young or not, this team is under performing.
How can we be so effective against the teams that open up, but struggle against the rest...the majority of the league that is.
We're actually just lucky that the teams in and around us are dropping points also or it would look a lot worse.
There's a huge difference though and you would be a fool not to notice. Under Mourinho our team had peaked and was never going to get any better. We had hit our ceiling. Under Ole, while our place in the table isn't any different yet, we are only going to get better. Sure, there's going to be some knee jerk reactions to todays draw with Everton (as the doom and gloom crowd hid for a few days after a couple of good results), however, if we keep playing our opponents while having close to 70% possession and outshooting them 24(8)-8(3) like we did today, the results will come. This is a young team and there are going to be some bumps along the way, but the only way is up for this young group of players and with just a couple of additions I fully expect us to be back competing for titles again very soon...
I want it all, I want it all, I want it all
And I want it now........
And I want it now........
With respect to the thread starter, we have not gone backwards. The biggest difference and improvement Ole has made to the team are to be liked and watchable, again. The toxicity around the club has gone. I look forward to games and there is hope. I see the foundation being built. I don't know the future but a few tweaks and I can see us competing at the very top soon.
My changes would be to introduce attacking full-backs in so-called easier games. Our full-backs are just not good enough in the attacking third. Strikers need help. We also need a different type of striker to replace Lukaku and a player who can conjure up some magical moment in tight spaces and we should be good to go again.
My changes would be to introduce attacking full-backs in so-called easier games. Our full-backs are just not good enough in the attacking third. Strikers need help. We also need a different type of striker to replace Lukaku and a player who can conjure up some magical moment in tight spaces and we should be good to go again.
And so we should. Mourinho was sacked a year ago and we are regressing.
Give me the Pool trebble this season! We need to accept that the roles have reversed.
Tell me what you would consider acceptable 12 months on from Jose. Would it be only definable in league positions? Top 4? Top 3? Would you define it in terms of squad overhaul? How many of the deadwood have departed? In terms of new talent in the door? How competitive we are against the top teams? Against the rest? How many goals we score? How enjoyable it is to watch us? How many of our youngsters are making a meaningful contribution?
Most of those are acceptable parameters and in most of them, we've progressed.
Key for me is that I'm looking forward to seeing us play again. To assert that we're in the same place as after that dismal, defensive 3-1 capitulation at Anfield that marked Jose's last game is nonsense.
We should and could have gone to half time leading 4 or 5-0. For the first 35-40 minutes it was a one way highway through the City defense. In the last end of the first and the second we sat back and comfortably defended against a team thats wildly talented.
But you know what, the problem with one-two line comments is that they are always low hanging fruit, so that's my mistake.
Nothing to do with luck if anything United dropped more silly points than any team. The teams in and around us have and will continue to drop points because like United they are mediocre.
This... I look forward to our games again.
If that's the only reason Ole is here then we have at least 200 ex players who could do the same job as him, and probably better.
BANG ON THE MONEY.
Eh? I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength. I'll bow out graciously here. No doubt you're correct.
This.
The simple truth is the squad isn’t good enough yet and we lack numbers. We are doing okay but not brilliant, not a disaster either. Had we lost against Spurs and City I would definitely want him gone, but we didn’t which suggests there is a sign of something there.
Pogba has been a massive loss for us. When Herrera and Fellaini were sold, Matic and Mata quality had plummeted, then not signing a midfielder we were short in midfield when Pogba was fit. He then gets a long term injury and our only creative midfielder has been missing for over two months. I don’t get why the club allowed that situation to happen but it did. He is the player that can unlock a tight defence as we saw today against Everton.
Given the quality of the squad I would say a top 4 battle was the only realistic target this season. We are a bit off that currently.
Pogba has been a massive loss for us. When Herrera and Fellaini were sold, Matic and Mata quality had plummeted, then not signing a midfielder we were short in midfield when Pogba was fit. He then gets a long term injury and our only creative midfielder has been missing for over two months. I don’t get why the club allowed that situation to happen but it did. He is the player that can unlock a tight defence as we saw today against Everton.
Given the quality of the squad I would say a top 4 battle was the only realistic target this season. We are a bit off that currently.
You see them often because we rarely win.
Easy.. points from the top of the table, because the top of the table is the most consistent team at the moment. Last year when we sacked the poison one we were 19 points from the leaders Liverpool. Today we are 24 points. It tells you everything. Dont get me wrong, I celebrated the sack of the poison one like we won the league, but sad to tell you that Ole is doing worse than the worse season of the poison one.
Yeah and I see your posts too much.
We’ve absolutely gone backwards, at least under previous managers we use to have some standards and expectations. Ole lowered both to the point that some fans actually consider the last 12 months progress because we got rid of a couple players. We have a manager that lacks any kind of backbone is content with any performance. His lack of ambition is reflected in our players. Can’t wait until next season when a real manager takes over and we can actually start improving on this mess.
I hold my breath every time I see your posts.
The results have not quite come so far, but I feel far more positive about where we are than a year ago. Our football under Mourinho was fecking dreadful near the end and his behaviour was atrocious. Performances have been worthy of several more points this season, whereas last year we were lucky to be where we were as we were leaking shots everywhere at the back.
This time last year (according to Understat) our xG/xGA/xPts were 28.22/26.53/23.92. We’re better on all accounts this year, especially on the last two counts with 29.51/16.85/31.83. You cannot really control results. The process has improved and over time this should mean we see it in results, especially when this young side matures.
A couple of matches aside, our general pattern of play has been better, but we keep leaking cheap goals. Today was a classic example. With our decent, but not sensational attack, it’s going to be hard to have many more points than we currently do with only two clean sheets. I’m increasingly frustrated with De Gea, who commanding the pay pack he does needs to consistently deliver world class performances and he’s done it once only in the last four seasons really. There may be a decision to make with him down the line with Romero and Henderson waiting in the wings. I’m far more confident with Romero in goal right now.
Going forward, we need some depth. We’ve only really got Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood across the front three and it is difficult for the manager to change the game from the bench currently. Gomes and Chong aren’t ready and no one else can play there well. Haaland and Sancho would be real exciting buys to give us real options across a full 90, and around injuries and form. I do think the manager needs these tools and I’d be excited to see what he could do with them. There’s also the small matter of us having been without our best player for most of the season too.
Thankfully we’re in a season where only three sides have shown any real consistency too, so there’s absolutely no need to panic in achieving our honest goals for this season of CL qualification and silverware. I don’t see who else I’d realistically want us to take us into the New Year.
This time last year (according to Understat) our xG/xGA/xPts were 28.22/26.53/23.92. We’re better on all accounts this year, especially on the last two counts with 29.51/16.85/31.83. You cannot really control results. The process has improved and over time this should mean we see it in results, especially when this young side matures.
A couple of matches aside, our general pattern of play has been better, but we keep leaking cheap goals. Today was a classic example. With our decent, but not sensational attack, it’s going to be hard to have many more points than we currently do with only two clean sheets. I’m increasingly frustrated with De Gea, who commanding the pay pack he does needs to consistently deliver world class performances and he’s done it once only in the last four seasons really. There may be a decision to make with him down the line with Romero and Henderson waiting in the wings. I’m far more confident with Romero in goal right now.
Going forward, we need some depth. We’ve only really got Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood across the front three and it is difficult for the manager to change the game from the bench currently. Gomes and Chong aren’t ready and no one else can play there well. Haaland and Sancho would be real exciting buys to give us real options across a full 90, and around injuries and form. I do think the manager needs these tools and I’d be excited to see what he could do with them. There’s also the small matter of us having been without our best player for most of the season too.
Thankfully we’re in a season where only three sides have shown any real consistency too, so there’s absolutely no need to panic in achieving our honest goals for this season of CL qualification and silverware. I don’t see who else I’d realistically want us to take us into the New Year.
Mourinho was the worst manager at United Post SAF.
Success & short term success is not everything - building things slowly & as long as a manager improved from what the manager left behind then United can keep improving.
Jose is pure trash & trades everything for short term success. The Lukaku, the sanchez, the game play - I just genuinely can't be bothered.
The best post SAF managers at United have been LVG & Ole - but note that does not mean the most successful one.
What exactly is the argument for Ole being the best manager post SAF?
That he 'gets' the club and he 'understands' the club?
Because besides that, he has no argument.
I don't think we've gone backwards.
We've just kind of stood still mainly.
We've just kind of stood still mainly.
We have taken a step back which is not necessarily bad. I like where we are now then where we were a year ago with a team full of over paid, non committed players, defensive minded team. We have a lot of good in the team and genuinely 3-4 signings away from having a consistent top 4 side.
Because even though I don't think tactically he is good enough that he is helping improve the players and the squad. I'd rather have managers who do that one after another and promote youngsters than go off for a whole do or die success winning/title winning season under Mourinho which leads us to utter nothing.
I've come to terms that United will have rebuild their squad & their club - managers like Jose can't do that at a club like United - atleast not for something that can last for a good 5-8 years.
That’s just nonsense. Mourinho won a couple of trophies and finished 2nd. The worse manager by a country mile was David Moyes.
The squad quality has taken a step back, but the squad development has taken a monumental leap forward.
People like the OP expect immediate success without having to accept that this squad of players was always going to have teething issues. Mourinho attempted to buy instant success. Didnt fecking work, so don't expect success when its a drawn out process.
Just take a look around and read some posters coming up with strange excuses. When you ask them what has improved, everything they come up with is subjective that can have many interpretations from different points of views, but they never give anything objective. You tell them this is the worst start in the club's premier league history, they tell you it's a process.
I want a better manager, but how have we arguably gone backwards? I guess you could argue it if you were living in a vacuum where context doesn’t matter. Are you in that place?
I forgot about David Moyea but I don't really make him count because he was just a mistake that should never have happened.
For me what we are seeing with Ole and the youngsters development is what was initially planned after LVG - going from 3 years LVG and then have potentially someone like Giggs takeover and help the youngsters develop in to an idea of football.
Going from LVG football to Jose football was just like switching from two hardcore religions & it was pure bad decisions with no flow. One was possession and trying to target younger players whilst the second was absolutely no style at all and any robust tall physical player Mourinho could find for millions of pounds.
After the game, went to sleep.
Open caf, this thread is on the front page.
Created after we drew a game, dropped points.
What next?
"Ole is an inept manager compared to Moyes.."
Open caf, this thread is on the front page.
Created after we drew a game, dropped points.
What next?
"Ole is an inept manager compared to Moyes.."
Yeah, it's almost as if shipping out 7 players in the summer and rebuilding a team is some kind of ongoing process requiring several stages to reach fruition over an extended time period.
If only Ole had your wisdom and intellect so he could get it done in half a season.
Rebuilds don’t generally consist of solely demolition.
There is no excuse for us to be ‘so bad’ in the hopes [not the guarantee] of one day becoming good again.
The Everton game was a carbon copy of countless games this season; this is a coaching issue [not solely] but when a manager sends his team out week after week & the same defensive implosions happen he must take some responsibility.
We play £110mil of CBs most weeks.
There is no excuse for us to be ‘so bad’ in the hopes [not the guarantee] of one day becoming good again.
The Everton game was a carbon copy of countless games this season; this is a coaching issue [not solely] but when a manager sends his team out week after week & the same defensive implosions happen he must take some responsibility.
We play £110mil of CBs most weeks.
Isn’t age objective? Isn’t xG/xGA/xP objective? Isn’t performance against top 6 objective? Aren’t our squad depth/bench quality objective? Aren’t our injuries objective? Aren’t missed penalties objective?
I agree it was stupid to go from LVG to Mourinho. But in terms of his transfer I can’t imagine many people were disappointed with the players he bought in - Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Lukaku, Micky, Sanchez. They were a calibre of player that most fans wanted us to sign but for what ever reason it didn’t work for most.
I still believe if José had got his CB last summer he would still have a job here. But he’s very marmite with fans. Even when were doing well some fans weren’t happy, simply because of who he is.
In the summer a decision was made to take some temporary backward steps in order to progress in the longer term. This came with an expectation that we'd have a thin squad plugged up with a few senior players like Young, Matic, Jones and Mata and room to give a few youngsters a go.
Anyone who thought we'd get consistency and long winning steaks in the first half of the season was being unrealistic.
Can we please stop appraising it after every single game and just see where we are at the end of the season?
Anyone who thought we'd get consistency and long winning steaks in the first half of the season was being unrealistic.
Can we please stop appraising it after every single game and just see where we are at the end of the season?
Jose is a has been and was never going to achieve anything more at United. He's a cancer to our club and we are far better because he has gone.