Attacking is the least of our worries even without Hazard, we are creating enough chances (infact we created more chances in 25 minutes Vs Leicester this year than we did in two games last year with Hazard playing) it's the defensive side that needs working on.
2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Attacking is the least of our worries even without Hazard, we are creating enough chances (infact we created more chances in 25 minutes Vs Leicester this year than we did in two games last year with Hazard playing) it's the defensive side that needs working on.
Absolutely, Maddison missed a sitter from inside the 6 yard box, should have been 2-1 at least to Leicester...
Then you will be disappointed, 6th is the absolute worst case scenario.
This on another day things works both ways.
On another day we're 4 up after half an hour and the rest of the games a formality.
Shoulda woulda coulda and all that.
Seems to me they take their foot off the pedal once they win the title. After Conte won the league they went out and signed players like Drinkwater...
They don't seem to back a managers vision beyond the title win as they replace managers so quickly.
Drinkwater may have been a signing Conte didn't want but he certainly wanted Bakayoko and Morata.
The problems came from abandoning the long term rule in 2013 and going for quick fixes, something we appear to be rectifying now.
What was this? I thought Chelsea signed players in their mid 20s.
Morata was not his first choice though. Does the same not apply for Zappacosta?
Van Ginkel, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Kalas, Schurrle, Oscar, Hazard, Moses, Courtois, Azpi.
All signings in early 20s or younger in the space of a couple of years, the intention was to build something more sustainable but we let Jose scrap the plan for a quick title.
Thing with Conte is he isn't very transparent which made it quite easy to tell which were board signing and which were his during his era. The board signings got very little outside of cup matches (Michy, Drinkwater, Barkley) while his signings got chance after chance after chance no matter how bad they got (Morata, Bakayoko, Alonso and to an extent Zappacosta).
So few of them were punts like Van Ginkel, Lukaku, KdB and others were signed when they were in 20s.
Post Jose, I see most of your signings are in the mid 20s
Kepa - 24
Pulisic - 20
Jorginho - 26
Morata - 25
Bakayoko - 23
Drinkwater - 27
Rudiger - 24
Zapacosta - 25
Emerson - 23
Barkley - 24
Bats - 23
Kante - 25
Luiz - 29
Alonso - 26
And yeah, during Jose's time there were few old players and looks like the policy was different. Going by the transfers, yeah I think Chelsea stopped these punt signings.
Well what other choice did he have but to play Morata really? After they had signed him for big money that was the striker he had to make use of.
Are you gonna spend the entire season. Judging Chelseas performances like this?
First 4-0 isn't a true reflection of a game and now its the final score that matters because woulda, shoulda coulda?
I have no idea how you can look at yesterdays game and think there's no danger Leicester will finish above you.
Your squad has a reputation of downing tools when rot sets in and your side will bend to the grind when you're dropping points every week.
You have less firepower than Leicester IMO and arguably a worse defence.
The Conor McGregor of football teams. Start great and will fade away and struggle in the second half.
I'm not doing that myself, I'm only using it as a counter to the "if Leicester took their chances", they didn't and neither did we, so draw it is.
Conte spent the whole season trying to one up the board so much so he basically threw a game to prove a point. There's no chance he would have played Morata and Bakayoko through those month of extreme dross if they were forced on him, he would have reverted to false 9 and played Luiz in midfield if he had too (like how he played false 9 over giving Michy serious game time).
Players like Michy are also of questionable quality. Despite Morata’s poor time at Chelsea I’m confident he will continue to play well for Atletico. Michy is not going to be playing under Lampard either. The board did piss Conte off and I think he had a right to be annoyed. He had just won a league and they should have gone full steam ahead with what he wanted the following summer.
Yes but then he should have put his frustrations aside and got on with his job (like what Pochettino and Klopp do when they don't get their way) The window was an excuse for not defending the title, however failure to get top 4 that year is on him.
Yes he has his faults but the board fecked the summer up. The board does make some questionable decisions and it will go on beyond Conte.
I'm usually the kind of guy who doesn't give a shit if someone is English. I don't follow a single national team. So me rating them as talents is really just down to me rating them as talents. You not rating them is absolutely fair, we just disagree with how far they can go. On another note it does seem like you think of the current season the most (which is fair since it is the 2019/2020 Chelsea thread), but I mostly talk about how I see their clubs future from this season and beyond.
Here is how I'd mix the squads for a combined first-eleven with the others, just for fun and not for discussing:
Sterling - Aguero - B. Silva
KdB - Kante
Rodri
* - Laporte - * - Walker
Ederson
* Up in the air between a Chelsea player and a City player. KdB - Kante
Rodri
* - Laporte - * - Walker
Ederson
Mendy has done nothing in England & Zinchenko & Emerson are about on par with the little I've seen of Emerson, it's just Pep making it work with Zinchenko.
Rudiger can be argued to be individually at the level of Stones & Otamendi.
Some would maybe prefer Kepa over Ederson, I don't agree.
Mane - Firmino - Salah
Kante - Wijnaldum
Fabinho
Robertson - VvD - * - TAA
Alisson
Kante - Wijnaldum
Fabinho
Robertson - VvD - * - TAA
Alisson
Could be arguments over Wijnaldums place.
* Matip vs Rudiger.
Son - Kane - Eriksen
Kante - Ndombele
*
Rose - Vertonghen - Alderweireld - Azpilicueta
Kepa
Kante - Ndombele
*
Rose - Vertonghen - Alderweireld - Azpilicueta
Kepa
Emerson vs Rose could be argued for.
Lloris for Kepa could be argued for.
* Jorginho/Kovacic/RLC vs Winks/Wanyama
Lacazette - Aubameyang - *
Kante - *
*
* - Rudiger - * - Azpilicueta
Kepa
Kante - *
*
* - Rudiger - * - Azpilicueta
Kepa
* Pepe/Nelson vs Pulisic/CHO, all with hype.
Ceballos (loan) vs Kovacic/Mount/Barkley/RLC
Torreira vs Jorginho
Emerson vs Tierney/Kolasinac/Monreal
Christensen vs Papastathopoulos
* - Rashford - CHO
Pogba - Kante
Jorginho
Shaw - Maguire - * - AWB
De Gea
Arguments could be made for McTominay for Jorginho, but McTominay isn't a DM.
You could also argue for James over CHO.
Spain are already arguing for Kepa over De Gea. It ultimately comes down to if you think De Gea will get back to near his best or keep slumming it.
* Martial vs Pulisic & Rudiger/Christensen vs Lindelöf
Pogba - Kante
Jorginho
Shaw - Maguire - * - AWB
De Gea
Arguments could be made for McTominay for Jorginho, but McTominay isn't a DM.
You could also argue for James over CHO.
Spain are already arguing for Kepa over De Gea. It ultimately comes down to if you think De Gea will get back to near his best or keep slumming it.
* Martial vs Pulisic & Rudiger/Christensen vs Lindelöf
Not sure why Chelsea seem to get a free pass from the media
Really? Have a look at bbc today- Tim Cahill saying ‘no wins but plenty to cheer’
If that was United we’d be getting absolutely hammered from all sides
He says all your missing is ‘an ability to close a game out & win’ I mean we dismantled you second half of our game & Leicester played you off the park second half on your own pitch.
So please don’t say you’re not treated favourably.
Really? Have a look at bbc today- Tim Cahill saying ‘no wins but plenty to cheer’
If that was United we’d be getting absolutely hammered from all sides
He says all your missing is ‘an ability to close a game out & win’ I mean we dismantled you second half of our game & Leicester played you off the park second half on your own pitch.
So please don’t say you’re not treated favourably.
When you went on that bad run in Jose's first season you were constantly praised for all these "dominant" draws at Old Trafford.
Don’t remember that mate- all I remember is even after wins being told ‘they’re winning but is it the United way? ‘ crap
They lack the right balance but there's a good team in there somewhere. Martin Tyler's remark towards the end of the game yesterday about Chelsea being a team of extreme highs and extreme lows was spot on. The sooner Lampard stops thinking he's playing FM, the better his side's chances of attaining a top-four spot will become.
To make a long story short, Chelsea look on top of their game when their energy levels are full and each one of the ten outfield players is fighting for every possession thus allowing them to retain any semblance of compactness on the pitch. But no team can do that for 90 minutes. The question is how do you choose to cope with that. Normally, you can either control the procedures with good spells of possession or you can soak up the pressure and hit on the counter. Or do a mix of both (like RM on their better days).
There's a lot of wishful thinking currently in Lampard's set-up. In the age of overlapping FBs, the choice to deploy to players on both wings who are suspect in their defensive duties is screaming that you're asking for trouble. With their available options in the forward position, Mount's ability to find pockets of space in between the lines will come in handy when it comes to finishing attacking moves but, on the other hand, the problem with the youngster is that he's not offering anything else on the pitch. An extra body in the midfield battle? Play-making abilities? Ball distribution? No. And with forwards that rarely get involved in generating moves, this can prove to be a problem for Chelsea because they need both Pulisic and Pedro closer to the box and not in wider positions trying to make things happen.
Going a bit deeper in the midfield, Jorginho can offer a couple of pretty good things on the pitch but screening the back-four on his own and acting as a play-maker when Mount is playing closer to the forward than to the rest of the midfield is not among them. With Emerson pushing so high and with the triad behind the forward being overly attacking-minded, all you get in the end is Kante running like crazy up & down the pitch trying to either carry the ball forward or fix all sorts of defensive holes when Chelsea lose possession with 7 or 8 players in the attacking half. I'm saying this because Lampard seems to believe that Jorginho should be a crucial cog in the wheel of what is Chelsea's build-up but his other choices in the starting xi indicate that he still treats the role in front of the back-four like a prime Matic (extremely important in both Chelsea's last PL titles) is still playing there. Jorginho doesn't possess any holding midfielder qualities in his game.
And finally, you have the defence which apparently will be okey-dokey when Rudiger returns. Trust me, it won't, if the system requires them to do so much defending. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's not. In a high risk - high reward formation, defenders who possess the urgency to defend in front of the attacker and the agility to cover the wide areas which are left open by the attacking FBs are essential. Chelsea don't have defenders who are that good in this area. It's not that they are bad defenders, more like they're not good at this kind of (demanding) defending. It's a bit like the Smalling conundrum... limit his area of responsibility to 1v1 marking and clearing crosses and you get a good option at the back. Ask him to read the game and do some proactive defending while the midfielders surge forward... that's when the problems arise.
Lampard expects his team to win every match in the 20-30 minutes of the game when their engines work in full capacity. But the end product is not good enough to give them a healthy lead during this period and his choices leave Chelsea very exposed when the opposition manages to settle into the game. We saw it in the first two league games, we'll see it again. When both United and Leicester turned up the volume, Chelsea could neither control the game or defend efficiently. I guess that a reversion to 433 with the introduction of both Kovacic and Willian (it's not like they have a plethora of options) in the starting lineup will turn them into a more cohesive unit.
To make a long story short, Chelsea look on top of their game when their energy levels are full and each one of the ten outfield players is fighting for every possession thus allowing them to retain any semblance of compactness on the pitch. But no team can do that for 90 minutes. The question is how do you choose to cope with that. Normally, you can either control the procedures with good spells of possession or you can soak up the pressure and hit on the counter. Or do a mix of both (like RM on their better days).
There's a lot of wishful thinking currently in Lampard's set-up. In the age of overlapping FBs, the choice to deploy to players on both wings who are suspect in their defensive duties is screaming that you're asking for trouble. With their available options in the forward position, Mount's ability to find pockets of space in between the lines will come in handy when it comes to finishing attacking moves but, on the other hand, the problem with the youngster is that he's not offering anything else on the pitch. An extra body in the midfield battle? Play-making abilities? Ball distribution? No. And with forwards that rarely get involved in generating moves, this can prove to be a problem for Chelsea because they need both Pulisic and Pedro closer to the box and not in wider positions trying to make things happen.
Going a bit deeper in the midfield, Jorginho can offer a couple of pretty good things on the pitch but screening the back-four on his own and acting as a play-maker when Mount is playing closer to the forward than to the rest of the midfield is not among them. With Emerson pushing so high and with the triad behind the forward being overly attacking-minded, all you get in the end is Kante running like crazy up & down the pitch trying to either carry the ball forward or fix all sorts of defensive holes when Chelsea lose possession with 7 or 8 players in the attacking half. I'm saying this because Lampard seems to believe that Jorginho should be a crucial cog in the wheel of what is Chelsea's build-up but his other choices in the starting xi indicate that he still treats the role in front of the back-four like a prime Matic (extremely important in both Chelsea's last PL titles) is still playing there. Jorginho doesn't possess any holding midfielder qualities in his game.
And finally, you have the defence which apparently will be okey-dokey when Rudiger returns. Trust me, it won't, if the system requires them to do so much defending. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's not. In a high risk - high reward formation, defenders who possess the urgency to defend in front of the attacker and the agility to cover the wide areas which are left open by the attacking FBs are essential. Chelsea don't have defenders who are that good in this area. It's not that they are bad defenders, more like they're not good at this kind of (demanding) defending. It's a bit like the Smalling conundrum... limit his area of responsibility to 1v1 marking and clearing crosses and you get a good option at the back. Ask him to read the game and do some proactive defending while the midfielders surge forward... that's when the problems arise.
Lampard expects his team to win every match in the 20-30 minutes of the game when their engines work in full capacity. But the end product is not good enough to give them a healthy lead during this period and his choices leave Chelsea very exposed when the opposition manages to settle into the game. We saw it in the first two league games, we'll see it again. When both United and Leicester turned up the volume, Chelsea could neither control the game or defend efficiently. I guess that a reversion to 433 with the introduction of both Kovacic and Willian (it's not like they have a plethora of options) in the starting lineup will turn them into a more cohesive unit.
Have they been punching old men?
Well it's not the least of your worries because you're not converting your chances.
Using all of your energy in the first half to not score and then get dominated in the second half is a very flawed strategy.
You could have very easily been 2-0 up and shattered for the second half and Leicester had enough chances to also win the game 3-2.
Fairly irrelevant club.
None of Chelsea's chances were as gilt edged as that Maddison sitter, literally about 3 yards away from goal, no defenders close enough and keeper is in no mans land. If the shot is anywhere on target, its a goal..
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Good post. Would agree with most of the combined teams you've listed focusing on Man Utd though I most certainly wouldn't want Jorginho personally
We've got Norwich, Sheffield Utd next, then wolves after break.
We'll get much better view of our situation this season after these games.
Lots of mitigating circumstances in first 3 games. I was pleased after Liverpool performance. Let's see.
We'll get much better view of our situation this season after these games.
Lots of mitigating circumstances in first 3 games. I was pleased after Liverpool performance. Let's see.
Bro I dont know why so many of you Chelsea fans seem to think your squad is up to par? It hasn't been for a while since the loss of Diego Costa, decline of cesc fabregas and now Hazard. Kante is the only player lefT and he is a tier above the rest.
Usually you expect managers to play to the strengths of their best players but Lampard has chosen to do the opposite. Kante would strive in a counter attacking team similar to ours where you can unleash pacy forwards like Pulisic, pedro and willian. Its still early and Im hoping for your sake he changes his system to this because playing a high line with average defenders and a weak midfield is a recipe for disaster. Jorginho is a good player but attackers seem to brush past him like the wind. He offers little to no protection. Normally I would love to tell you what kovacic does but even I dont know because he carries the ball forward only to pass it backwards. Doesn't score or assist so he's just like a passenger. Azpilicueta is done at this level. At fault for 2 goals against us and lost Ndidi for Leicesters equalizer. Rudiger might be a good defender but is he even better than smalling? Its very debateable.
6th place would be the best case scenario knowing what you have lost in hazard and bringing in an inexperienced manager. i dont think you can buy in January so that means your stuck with an average squad. If the fans and Abramovich understand that the club have been dealt a terrible hand with the transfer window ban I feel like future planning to bring Chelsea back to the top will go smoothly. There is not a single manager other than Sir Alex ferguson
that could work magic with this Chelsea squad and by that I mean finish top 4.I don't know about that, but they aren't as good as they used to be and have racist fans so...
I wouldn't want him either. He gets in because he is the only one who can sit deep in those two teams midfields and only because of that.
I'm a sucker for two formations and the second one is unorthodox to put it mildly, so I went with 4-3-3 with a defensive midfielder in all combinations.
Kante's goes in 9 times out of 10.
I'm not saying we deserved to win based on that, all I'm saying is the on another day logic works both ways.
Who exactly are going to overhaul us? People seem to think Everton and Leicester because would make up a 20 point gap because we lost our best players well so did both of them, Wolves will struggle with Europa and drop too many points against shit teams.Bro I dont know why so many of you Chelsea fans seem to think your squad is up to par? It hasn't been for a while since the loss of Diego Costa, decline of cesc fabregas and now Hazard. Kante is the only player lefT and he is a tier above the rest.
Usually you expect managers to play to the strengths of their best players but Lampard has chosen to do the opposite. Kante would strive in a counter attacking team similar to ours where you can unleash pacy forwards like Pulisic, pedro and willian. Its still early and Im hoping for your sake he changes his system to this because playing a high line with average defenders and a weak midfield is a recipe for disaster. Jorginho is a good player but attackers seem to brush past him like the wind. He offers little to no protection. Normally I would love to tell you what kovacic does but even I dont know because he carries the ball forward only to pass it backwards. Doesn't score or assist so he's just like a passenger. Azpilicueta is done at this level. At fault for 2 goals against us and lost Ndidi for Leicesters equalizer. Rudiger might be a good defender but is he even better than smalling? Its very debateable.
6th place would be the best case scenario knowing what you have lost in hazard and bringing in an inexperienced manager. i dont think you can buy in January so that means your stuck with an average squad. If the fans and Abramovich understand that the club have been dealt a terrible hand with the transfer window ban I feel like future planning to bring Chelsea back to the top will go smoothly. There is not a single manager other than Sir Alex ferguson
Even our squad currently is better than some of the garbage sides United, Liverpool and Spurs have put out at various points this decade yet none fell from top 8, the idea we will be side by side with the likes of Watford is fanatical at best.
Were we? United being praised is very rare so us being praised after we were drawing games doesn't add up. In fact Jose was under pressure from his defeat top Watford in his 5th league game. But being reasonable I would myself not blame Lampard for this start. What do people expect him to do with this squad. People can all rave for Mount, Abraham, Pulisic but truth is Chelsea's squad is very average. If they even finish above the other Big 6 clubs it will be a massive achievement for him.
They had a better side last year and got bullied every week away from home?
I cant see how selling Hazard and playing Abrahams corrects that.
I see the trend of excusing results because they had a good twenty minute spell but they are an incredibly blunt side. Missing chances is a flaw this side has, from midfield to the striker they have not got a goal threat. Its the very reason they'll fall away.
Some utterly cretinous comments in this thread.
I remember once you were drawing away in the Europa League at HT and the BBC were gushing about how "dominant" you were. It was a regular narrative at that point i'm assuming to sugarcoat the fact you were 6th and Chelsea were top after the media spent all summer telling anyone that would listen that it was going to be the opposite.
And what about the cringeworthy apology to Maguire from Merson? That will never happen to any of our player's.
Again I am not sure which game you are talking about. From my memory since Sir alex retired (or even during his time) media have put pressure on our managers since day 1. Even after winning 4-0 against you lot people were questioning us and said we were lucky. DO you remember how the media treated Pogba and co. after we lost to you guys 4-0 during Conte's first season. Lampard has been getting a free pass and like I said he deserves it. Anyone blaming Lampard or asking for his head is just foolish.
Honestly don't mind finishing 7th or 8th.
No Europe and better to rebuild the following season im guessing?