2024 U.S. Elections

Ekkie Thump said:
I mean, what the feck is this guy thinking?

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Maybe just wishful thinking but news like that makes me think it's more likely he's standing down and they're in the process of managing that as a family.

Appreciate there's lots of stories that indicate the opposite but until it's close to being announced they'll be a false media front to demonstrate stability.
 


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Ekkie Thump said:
This is a snowball rolling down a very big hill and it is not going to come to a stop any time soon:

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Maybe wishful thinking, but when the NYT goes out this hard... I mean, somethings got to be happening right? Right?
 
Laurencio said:
historically very few preidents fail to get a second term in office
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It's not quite 1968 in terms of the problems surrounding that election and the turbulence but Johnson knew he couldn't beat RFK and so stepped down (Vietnam and RFK simply being too much for him to continue).

My chronology isn't perfect but I think the step-down happened much earlier (like 1967, late) than the proposed step down for Biden here. The frame was never LBJ vs Nixon whereas it has been almost been Biden vs Trump.
 
SirAF said:
Maybe wishful thinking, but when the NYT goes out this hard... I mean, somethings got to be happening right? Right?
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That something could be little more than a few editors wanting Biden to move on, which would be consistent with other sentiment across the Dem ecosystem from David Axelrod to James Carville to Thomas Friedman and beyond. In fact, the only ones still battling to keep Biden as the nominee are people with something to lose if he's replaced.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
That’s a nothing burger. Instead of “I’ll say that again” it came “say that again”.
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He has form for this. Last time, it was an instruction to "pause"

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6351597660112

(it's been scrubbed from youtube)

neverdie said:
It's not quite 1968 in terms of the problems surrounding that election and the turbulence but Johnson knew he couldn't beat RFK and so stepped down (Vietnam and RFK simply being too much for him to continue).

My chronology isn't perfect but I think the step-down happened much earlier (like 1967, late) than the proposed step down for Biden here. The frame was never LBJ vs Nixon whereas it has been almost been Biden vs Trump.
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it's perfect, right

DNC in chicago
unpopular war
unpopular president - almost certain loss
unpopular vp - probable loss
 
VorZakone said:
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Kind of disappointed with him more than the others, just given how much younger he is than, say, the Clintons. He didn't have to support him after the debate, could have said nothing. Really need people like him to step up at this moment in time.
 
Beachryan said:
Kind of disappointed with him more than the others, just given how much younger he is than, say, the Clintons. He didn't have to support him after the debate, could have said nothing. Really need people like him to step up at this moment in time.
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Or maybe he sees the writing on the wall and wants to hint at Biden needing to step aside for the good of the party, and more critically - the country. Its not like he's directly told him to do one and retire into the sunset with immediate effect.
 
Biden is in bad situation, and it’s ok to cover the aftermath of his debate performance.

But, I wish people would also talk about the guy who was found guilty on 34 counts.
 
Even if he were to step aside, whoever replaces him would be facing an uphill battle. Is it even practical at this stage?
 
Adisa said:
Even if he were to step aside, whoever replaces him would be facing an uphill battle. Is it even practical at this stage?
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It's possible, but not ideal. I might be wrong, but I think there are even some limitations to what funds would be available to the new candidate - I'm not sure they can use whatever Biden's campaign has raised so far. And then there is the question of building national name recognition in four months, which isn't easy.

The logic for it working would be that the story around who gets selected would create a lot of organic media coverage and possibly excitement. But I'm not sure I really buy into that. High attention voters would maybe follow along, but the average voter wouldn't. And it opens up for a lot of possible attacks from the Republicans. I bet they would go with messaging like "They selected this person out of desperation, they are not ready, etc.".

I think no-one really knows what the smart decision is now to maximize the chances. No polling or focus groups can give a definitive answer to that. The Democrats are in a bind no matter what. But I'd say that if they stay with Biden they are very likely to lose, and then they might think "We should have tried someone else". Conversely, if they try someone else and lose, would anyone really think "We should have stuck with Biden?". I don't think so.

Personally I think there might be a small messaging benefit to switching, in that the population might take kindly to something they consider common sense. A lot of people think "Are these really our two options?", so if the Democrats presents something fresh, it could play well with some.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
Biden is in bad situation, and it’s ok to cover the aftermath of his debate performance.

But, I wish people would also talk about the guy who was found guilty on 34 counts.
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Exactly. It is disturbing how normalized Trump has become.
 
SirAF said:
Exactly. It is disturbing how normalized Trump has become.
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He's the republican candidate. Nothing anyone possibly does can change that.

You can write hes a criminal in 50 foot high letters on the empire state building, tattoo it on his forehead if you want. The reality is this. He is the presidential candidate, he is currently the most likely to win the election, and the dems need to find someone who can beat him.

There is zero point in trying to convince yourselves he can't possibly win again because he is a bad man. Half the country is going to vote for him. THat is where you are, and that is what must be dealt with.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
He's the republican candidate. Nothing anyone possibly does can change that.

You can write hes a criminal in 50 foot high letters on the empire state building, tattoo it on his forehead if you want. The reality is this. He is the presidential candidate, he is currently the most likely to win the election, and the dems need to find someone who can beat him.

There is zero point in trying to convince yourselves he can't possibly win again because he is a bad man. Half the country is going to vote for him. THat is where you are, and that is what must be dealt with.
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No one is saying that. That's why everyone is nervous, because he most definitely CAN win.
 
SirAF said:
No one is saying that. That's why everyone is nervous, because he most definitely CAN win.
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Its not about if he can win.

Right now he will win.

Biden running means president trump. Anyone arguing in any way for biden, is saying they want trump as president.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
He's the republican candidate. Nothing anyone possibly does can change that
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And Biden is the Democratic nominee, and nothing anyone does can possibly change that. He won the primary election, didn’t he? Yet, for almost a week now, lots of calls on him to step down.

My point is that we should have more talks about Trump’s conviction in a court of law. Why no one is calling for Trump to be replaced after being found guilty? Why it’s always one sided? That’s my point. Be consistent either way.

I wouldn’t mind if Biden and Trump are replaced by two other candidates, but I’m tired of seeing the double standards.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Its not about if he can win.

Right now he will win.

Biden running means president trump. Anyone arguing in any way for biden, is saying they want trump as president.
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I'm not sure who or what you are arguing against here. No one wants Trump to win. Biden is better than Trump, but Biden will most likely lose. We all want a younger and better candidate than Biden, but it is difficult to replace Biden if he doesn't step down by his own volition. What's your point?
 
SirAF said:
I'm not sure who or what you are arguing against here. No one wants Trump to win. Biden is better than Trump, but Biden will most likely lose. We all want a younger and better candidate than Biden, but it is difficult to replace Biden if he doesn't step down by his own volition. What's your point?
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That the only thing that can be changed is biden.

There is no point worrying about trump being normalised because that ship has long since sailed. The only question now is do you want a trump president or will someone replace biden.
 
Sweet Square said:
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At this point I think he should just keep quiet. Its not like he's on an Easyjet flight back from Spain, next to a load of pissed up tourists shouting loudly at one another. I get that travelling can be tiring, but this is completely damning. If he has to go anywhere he needs a few days rest afterwards, doesn't sound viable to me.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
My point is that we should have more talks about Trump’s conviction in a court of law. Why no one is calling for Trump to be replaced after being found guilty? Why it’s always one sided? That’s my point. Be consistent either way.

I wouldn’t mind if Biden and Trump are replaced by two other candidates, but I’m tired of seeing the double standards.
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It is not a double standard. It is a different judgment. Biden is judged to have integrity, so you can ask him to quit for the good of the country. Trump is judged to have none, so you don't.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
And Biden is the Democratic nominee, and nothing anyone does can possibly change that. He won the primary election, didn’t he? Yet, for almost a week now, lots of calls on him to step down.

My point is that we should have more talks about Trump’s conviction in a court of law. Why no one is calling for Trump to be replaced after being found guilty? Why it’s always one sided? That’s my point. Be consistent either way.

I wouldn’t mind if Biden and Trump are replaced by two other candidates, but I’m tired of seeing the double standards.
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No one is calling for it because he controls the Republican party and its core set of voters and anyone who strays from that reality is ostracized and exiled. Its a cult of personality party at this point until Trump leaves the political stage.
 
Raoul said:
No one is calling for it because he controls the Republican party and its core set of voters and anyone who strays from that reality is ostracized and exiled. Its a cult of personality party at this point until Trump leaves the political stage.
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I’m sorry, but that’s the double standard right there. Treating him differently than others.

Surely the New York Times can…
 
ManUtd1999 said:
I’m sorry, but that’s the double standard right there. Treating him differently than others.

Surely the New York Times can…
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Dems can't do anything about the fact that the GOP is a cult.

Different standards because the democratic party is different.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
I’m sorry, but that’s the double standard right there. Treating him differently than others.

Surely the New York Times can…
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Yes, its a double standard to most. Just as it is a double standard to Trump's gaslit MAGA followers that he is the only one being prosecuted, and not Biden as well. When you can create an alternate reality among Republican voters, the concept hypocrisy means nothing.
 
Raoul said:
Yes, its a double standard to most. Just as it is a double standard to Trump's gaslit MAGA followers that he is the only one being prosecuted, and not Biden as well. When you can create an alternate reality among Republican voters, the concept hypocrisy means nothing.
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You keep talking about the cult. They won’t abandon their leader.

I’m talking about others, like the media. They should call on him to step down just like some did with Biden. Whether the cult likes it or not and whether Trump does it is a different matter.

We got to this point because many treated Trump differently (not just his followers) and many graded him on a curve. That was true in 2016 and that’s true now.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
You keep talking about the cult. They won’t abandon their leader.

I’m talking about others, like the media. They should call on him to step down just like some did with Biden. Whether the cult likes it or not and whether Trump does it is a different matter.

We got to this point because many treated Trump differently (not just his followers) and many graded him on a curve. That was true in 2016 and that’s true now.
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You don't think Trump has been covered extensively by the media for the past 8 years ? Are you familiar with the Wapo list of 30k plus lies he's told or all the coverage about every legal case he's been up against ?
 
Raoul said:
You don't think Trump has been covered extensively by the media for the past 8 years ? Are you familiar with the Wapo list of 30k plus lies he's told or all the coverage about every legal case he's been up against ?
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He has been, but now it seems that Trump’s legal troubles, January 6, etc. don’t matter. Only Biden’s age.

And it’s not like Trump is 45 years old.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
He has been, but now it seems that Trump’s legal troubles, January 6, etc. don’t matter. Only Buden’s age.

And it’s not like Trump is 45 years old.
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Possibly because the media cycle only covers things in the present, and that means Biden's debate performance which even most Dems concede was calamitous. Trump's trials are far in the distance at this point, and some of them may not even happen if he wins. The bigger priority in terms of coverage right now, is quite correctly, who will replace Biden if/when he drops out.
 
Raoul said:
Possibly because the media cycle only covers things in the present, and that means Biden's debate performance which even most Dems concede was calamitous. Trump's trials are far in the distance at this point, and some of them may not even happen if he wins. The bigger priority in terms of coverage right now, is quite correctly, who will replace Biden if/when he drops out.
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I understand the part about the news cycle.

Now, when Trump was convicted few weeks ago, did we have this much talk about replacing him? (Say during the week after the verdict). Not really.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
I understand the part about the news cycle.

Now, when Trump was convicted few weeks ago, did we have this much talk about replacing him? (Say during the week after the verdict). Not really.
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That's because Republicans generally don't care what the mainstream media (the liberal media to them) have to say about anything. And Fox, Newsmax, and the rest of the right wing media are obviously not going to call for Trump to drop out because he's their meal ticket to political influence.
 
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