A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Frank Grimes said:
He managed the game brilliantly today, changing formation and Spurs took control of the second half. Weird the hate he gets on here.
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Indeed, his hands have been tied the previous two seasons imo. All his competitiors improve and buy in players, Tottenham stand still.

I'd be deeply frustrated if I was Pochettino, building a very good team, getting so close and then getting dropped by the Club completely. I understand the reasons why, but the club are a joke. Get so close to success, of which they've not seen for decades and then drop all financial backing to the Manager. :lol:

It just summarises Levy though, he's a money before football man.
 
I don't know why people are giving Poch a hard time. He is doing wonders with his squad. St Pep who is Jesus reincarnate can't win the league with Tottenham's squad. I firmly believe that instead of giving OGS the job on a permanent basis, we should have waited for Poch and got him in the summer.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
Still think he’s the right guy for the job. Happy to see what Ole will do, but don’t think the outlook is as bright with him as most here seem to.

Bringing in Ole, and then handcuffing yourself to him after a positive run, will likely go down as the 4th poor managerial decision post Ferguson.
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My gut and soul thinks Ole will be successful, but my brain tells me that Poch is the better choice.
 
Amadaeus said:
I would not say it has to do with a winner mentality. They would not be in this position and the quarter final of the champions league this season if they didn’t. Maybe, a Spurs fan can better explain why they seem to crumble when put on a little pressure. I believe it might do with quality of the squad and lack of reinforcements available. I believe if they spend £150m fixing their midfield, they will be a much stronger team. Liverpool spent £60m on Van dijk and he has absolutely transformed their defense and mentality. Spurs need a similar kind of signing in their midfield.
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Why don't you tell us then?


Frank Grimes said:
He managed the game brilliantly today, changing formation and Spurs took control of the second half. Weird the hate he gets on here.
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And lost. And what's more, his team have lost 4 of their last 5 league games (and were a last-minute penalty kick away from losing the other one). He has had a fully fit squad at his disposal too. Not to mention his disdain for winning actual trophies, something which United still place a value on.

If anything, the praise Poch gets from the likes of you is baffling. You guys are fan boys, not neutral observers.
 
Vinay Nair said:
Why don't you tell us then?




And lost. And what's more, his team have lost 4 of their last 5 league games (and were a last-minute penalty kick away from losing the other one). He has had a fully fit squad at his disposal too. Not to mention his disdain for winning actual trophies, something which United still place a value on.

If anything, the praise Poch gets from the likes of you is baffling. You guys are fan boys, not neutral observers.
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He has got Spurs in the top 4 consistently on a shoestring budget. I am a neutral observer, I've supported Manchester United for 30 years, just like to speak the truth.
 
Every manager reaches a saturation point with a team eventually. Think Pochettino is there. Now, he either needs money to refresh the squad or move to another club.
 
Frank Grimes said:
He has got Spurs in the top 4 consistently on a shoestring budget. I am a neutral observer, I've supported Manchester United for 30 years, just like to speak the truth.
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Fair enough - and I apologize because I mixed you up with ForestRGoingUp.

Still, Poch has a very good squad which should be able to finish in the top 4. Granted, there has been no investment in the squad lately, but I think there is a tendency to overlook his shortcomings. Over the past few years, his teams have had real opportunities to challenge for the title, but they always buckle under pressure. That has much to do with mentality and not investment alone. Fergie won us a few titles through sheer winning mentality - it's a quality that should be essential for a United manager. Ole seems to have it, Poch seems to not.
 
It's funny how football works. If he had bought Kane for 200 million and Eriksen for 100 million, he'd get criticized for underachieving. As they were bought for next to no money, he gets praise for overachieving.

The club's business, which has far as I'm aware is Levy's thing and doesn't have much to do with Pochettino, completely changes the perception people have of him as a manager.
 
Vinay Nair said:
Fair enough - and I apologize because I mixed you up with ForestRGoingUp.

Still, Poch has a very good squad which should be able to finish in the top 4. Granted, there has been no investment in the squad lately, but I think there is a tendency to overlook his shortcomings. Over the past few years, his teams have had real opportunities to challenge for the title, but they always buckle under pressure. That has much to do with mentality and not investment alone. Fergie won us a few titles through sheer winning mentality - it's a quality that should be essential for a United manager. Ole seems to have it, Poch seems to not.
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Nobody knows what Ole has, the only thing he has done of note in the Premier League so far is take a team down. This idea that Ole is some kind of magician based on a few weeks as a manager is so reactionary. Pochettino improved Southampton and Spurs and has made Spurs a team that no team likes facing, they outplayed Liverpool today in the 2nd half and if it wasn't for a dreadful finish from Sissoko Spurs would most likely have won. Managers can only do so much.

Spurs are on dreadful form but that is because they needed investment in the summer as most of their squad played in the latter stages of the World Cup. Players he brought to the club and made into first team internationals. Top class manager imo.
 
Amadaeus said:
There were not appalling for most of those games. Their were more dominant in possession and attempt on goal, in addition to other areas against most of those teams. The quality of finishing though, were up for question and that speaks about the quality moreso than the performance.
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Stats don't support your view. Their last 5 matches prior to last night's:

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Peyroteo said:
It's funny how football works. If he had bought Kane for 200 million and Eriksen for 100 million, he'd get criticized for underachieving. As they were bought for next to no money, he gets praise for overachieving.

The club's business, which has far as I'm aware is Levy's thing and doesn't have much to do with Pochettino, completely changes the perception people have of him as a manager.
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I will agree Spurs do have some good players, Son, Alli, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Kane, Vertonghen. But they also have some serious dross and players who are ones for the future/academy level. Lamela, Aurier, Dier, Sissoko all average at best, Winks, Skip academy level and still learning. Sissoko and Dier could easily be a midfield pairing for Watford, in fact Watfords midfield is probably better than those two.

This whole 'where do you improve the squad?' rubbish the media rolls out. It wouldnt cost a Man City type xfer bill to improve on Wanyama(crocked), Lamela(dross and crocked), Dier, Aurier, Sissoko(average).
 
This is Spurs returning to their level.

If United and the Arse get their act together we wont have to worry about the fight for forth as spurs will be vacting the top four completely the way things are going.
 
Harsh to blame Poch for loss at Anfield. Initial set up was maybe wrong as Liverpool were all over him but he made changes and then Spurs were back in the game. They created few half chances. Lloris is such a shit keeper, no idea why he isn't replaced. It's not as if he is winning points, if anything he makes so many mistakes and loses points.

Apart from this game, they are in very poor form. 1 point from 5 games and since Ole took over, we have gained 13 points on them and that's when our squad was at it's lowest.

Levy really fecked this up. Spurs had very good team, with few additions he would have improved them even further. Now Toby will leave, Eriksen has only year left on contract, Vertonghen will be 32 this month. This is excluding their CM situation which is just poor.

With Rose back in the team, their LB position is sorted. He is such a good player.
 
It doesnt matter how much you spent.

You can takeover city team, spend -20m and still be labelled a freud if you finish 3rd. While you can manage united post moyes, spend 200m winning a trophy and still be called a freud.

At what point can a manager take responsibility for not winning anything?
 
Vinay Nair said:
Fair enough - and I apologize because I mixed you up with ForestRGoingUp.

Still, Poch has a very good squad which should be able to finish in the top 4. Granted, there has been no investment in the squad lately, but I think there is a tendency to overlook his shortcomings. Over the past few years, his teams have had real opportunities to challenge for the title, but they always buckle under pressure. That has much to do with mentality and not investment alone. Fergie won us a few titles through sheer winning mentality - it's a quality that should be essential for a United manager. Ole seems to have it, Poch seems to not.
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Hey I’ve loved United since I was a kid. But if you’re using that as some measuring stick I can see why objectivity is tough to come by.
 
Fitchett said:
Burnley, Cardiff and relegated Huddersfield have all picked up more points in their last five PL games than Spurs have. And some people still think Poch should be our next manager and not Ole :lol:
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It’s almost like what someone has done over five years is more important than five matches or something.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
Hey I’ve loved United since I was a kid. But if you’re using that as some measuring stick I can see why objectivity is tough to come by.
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You could be supporting United for 20 years or 20 days for all I care - that's not the reason I disagree. Poch is a good manager, but I don't think he is as superior to Ole as people are making it out to be.
 
Amadaeus said:
:lol:

You must be one of those fans that only look at results and don’t watch the actually games. Pochettino once again showed brilliant game management and his team should have won if they did not shoot themselves in the foot.

Unfortunately for Pochettino, he has not mastered the art of being lucky. This was one of the best performance an away team put on at Anfield this season and everyone that watched the game would say Liverpool did not deserve the full three points.

In regards to their league position, as I stated before, they are overachieving with the quality at their disposal. They should not be in the top four with the players they have. Most fans seem to overhype their players, but reality is their team is not that good compared to their rivalry who has outspent Spurs in nearly every position on the field and have more resources to utilize if their first eleven underperform. That Sissoko miss speaks to my point and that lloris blunder today.
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He really, really did not. At this point you're only seeing what you want to see when it comes to Pochettino.
 
Vinay Nair said:
You could be supporting United for 20 years or 20 days for all I care - that's not the reason I disagree. Poch is a good manager, but I don't think he is as superior to Ole as people are making it out to be.
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He's had a better career to date, but that doesn't necessarily make him a better fit for the United job than Ole. The right manager > the experienced manager.

United are in a pretty great place right now. Unless Allegri/Tuchel leave, there's nowhere really for Poch to go in the summer. If Ole doesn't work out next season (which seems unlikely, but could happen), you can probably get Poch next summer instead :D
 
RochaRoja said:
It’s almost like what someone has done over five years is more important than five matches or something.
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What has Pochettino done over five years though?

Reaching the CL quarters, losing a League Cup final and two FA Cup semi-finals is nothing that Harry Redknapp didn't do.

At the mid-point of this season, Spurs were 2nd, 6 points off Liverpool in 1st, and a point clear of City in 3rd. They were also 13 points clear of United in 6th. They're now 4th, 16 points behind City, and only 1 point clear of 6th. Since the mid-point of the season, Spurs have won 2 fewer points than 14th placed Newcastle and 16th placed Southampton, and 5 fewer points than 17th placed Burnley. It's not at all unreasonable to suggest that Spurs end this season in 6th.

If Spurs do finish 6th, what has he done over five years? A brief boom when all of the other big 6 clubs have, to some degree, gone through some managerial turmoil, that still saw them somehow finish 3rd in a two-horse race for the title against fecking Leicester, before reverting to the norm?

Even Martin Jol had them mixing it with the top 4 for a couple of seasons, and Juande Ramos managed to see off Chelsea to pick-up a League Cup.
 
The problem is there's only so much a coach can do. A clever system can only go so far when you have a limited amount of talent, he's improved players but there are limits to what he is capable of, and we're seeing him hit that ceiling with us. Klopp hit it as well, he wouldn't be going any further had the club not invested in some genuine quality players to improve the team, and he's generally accepted as a world class coach. He couldn't make Lovren not make mistakes though, or turn Karius in to a world class keeper .. he had to go out and spend massive amount of money to bring in the level of player he needed.

Pochettino didn't get much wrong against Liverpool. The team setup allowed us to compete well, create chances, all that jazz. He made adjustments in the second half tactically and it paid off, but that's all he can do as a coach. What can he do when Trippier allows one of the best crossers in the league 5 minutes to pick out Firmino? Or when Sissoko, clean through on goal, blazes it miles wide? And then his keeper goes and gives away the second goal.

Some will say 'well he signed Trippier and Sissoko, his fault' but you're inevitably not going to get top tier talent most of the time when you're signing players who wouldn't look out of place joining Everton. Expecting him to do much more than compete for top four when Guardiola and Klopp are the top two managers with far bigger budgets is more than a little bit harsh. We barely finished ahead of Liverpool last season and then they went and chucked 140m or whatever at players.

Like I've said before, I'm not entirely happy with him this season, in particular his comments in the press, but if we do manage top four that'll basically be job well done and a good season for the club. If we finish sixth it'll be a poor season but still not exactly embarrassing or woeful considering the squads Chelsea and United have, it'll just be disappointing, especially since we had a huge point gap.

Bottom line is he needs better players, the same ones have let us down over and over again this season and again, there's not much a coach can do about that when he has his hands tied when it comes to transfers. He's tried out pretty much every option he has at his disposal and it's time for the board to back their manager.
 
Spurs had qualified for the Champions League once in their history until Pochettino took over. They’re in a position to qualify for that competition for the fourth consecutive season at the moment. Mental to pretend Jol, Ramos or Redknapp came close to what Pochettino has done.
 
I don't understand this percieved hatred from some United fans towards poch since ole's reign.

Pochetinho is a very good manager who have been putting in good works since his Southampton days.him being considered for the United's job was well deserved.
By the way since when has tottenham not finishing in the top4 became a crime? If anything it just shows the fantastic job this guy has done for spurs over the years.a team who Fulham have outspent in one summer compared to their last three shouldn't be in the top4 let alone top3. he might not have won any trophy yet but his consistent good work in getting tottenham in the top4 is far better. vangaal and Jose both won trophies but they were disappointments here anyway weren't they? I am not saying winning trophies aren't important but at least judge the guy when tottenham board shows desire to win any.

Some fans just need to get off his back he's been fantastic and I have no doubt he'll bounce back.
 
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So David Moyes wasn't the only one that took responsibility for select parts of the game. Poch fan club is doing that for him as well :lol:. Spurs were frankly terrible in the 1st half, but much better in the 2nd half. But apparently it was a masterclass from Poch and he was let down by his players. Liverpool got incredible lucky, but Spurs also got Lucky that Liverpool didn't score more. Van Dijk missed a free header and Mane missed by a whisker. A draw would have been a fair result, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement for Poch.
 
Owen06 said:
I don't understand this percieved hatred from some United fans towards poch since ole's reign.

Pochetinho is a very good manager who have been putting in good works since his Southampton days.him being considered for the United's job was well deserved.
By the way since when has tottenham not finishing in the top4 became a crime? If anything it just shows the fantastic job this guy has done for spurs over the years.a team who Fulham have outspent in one summer compared to their last three shouldn't be in the top4 let alone top3. he might not have won any trophy yet but his consistent good work in getting tottenham in the top4 is far better. vangaal and Jose both won trophies but they were disappointments here anyway weren't they? I am not saying winning trophies aren't important but at least judge the guy when tottenham board shows desire to win any.

Some fans just need to get off his back he's been fantastic and I have no doubt he'll bounce back.
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It's just bitter Jose fans. I'd ignore them.
 
RochaRoja said:
Spurs had qualified for the Champions League once in their history until Pochettino took over. They’re in a position to qualify for that competition for the fourth consecutive season at the moment. Mental to pretend Jol, Ramos or Redknapp came close to what Pochettino has done.
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You have to look at the starting eleven Poch can field compared to previous managers though. At what point could Spurs boast arguably the best striker in world football? Along with the likes of Alli, Son, Eriksen, Toby, Moura and Lloris. You can say what you want about his lack of depth and serious spending restrictions but let’s not pretend that he’s not working with a fantastic side who could probably give anyone a game on their day.
 
RochaRoja said:
Spurs had qualified for the Champions League once in their history until Pochettino took over. They’re in a position to qualify for that competition for the fourth consecutive season at the moment. Mental to pretend Jol, Ramos or Redknapp came close to what Pochettino has done.
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He's done well getting them into top 4 but if you're comparing him to previous spurs managers then you also have to look at United/Arsenal and Chelsea, these 3 teams have dropped off significantly and of course spurs do have a far better team than before.
 
Shark said:
You have to look at the starting eleven Poch can field compared to previous managers though. At what point could Spurs boast arguably the best striker in world football? Along with the likes of Alli, Son, Eriksen, Toby, Moura and Lloris. You can say what you want about his lack of depth and serious spending restrictions but let’s not pretend that he’s not working with a fantastic side who could probably give anyone a game on their day.
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Yeah, it's weird how people like to pretend he's working with some bang average players. Squad depth is definitely an issue but their starting 11 is damn good. You can't wank over half their players in the transfer forum and then play them down in the FF to big up Poch :lol:
 
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