I think Poch has done a great job but I'm more concerned about how he tends to have a bigger definite target man in his teams; Kane, Llorente, Lambert, Rodriguez etc (then again he does use Son upfront occasionally). There really aren't many elite number 9s out there so I wonder how he'd do without a Kane leading the line - that's why I hope Solskjaer keeps our form up as he understands the way we should be setting up our attack, with a dynamic front 3.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I can talk only about myself, but yes, he did.
He's shown no such fight. He's in his comfort zone where everyone is hailing lord poch.
He should know that with bigger job comes bigger expectations. You dont get by at madrid only playing attacking football.
Poch himself was going to relegate Espanyol, and so was sacked (mutual consent leave). They survived with the new manager.
To be fair, I am not sure that there is any correlation on how well does a manager in a big club vs a small club. St Mirren sacked Sir Alex Ferguson for example, that didn't stop him from doing well for Aberdeen and United.
True, getting sacked in football is nothing new or in any way indicative of a managers talent or ability. Very, very few managers have avoided that, and you never know in the future they may still get sacked anyways.
But with Poch, people pretend that Espanyol tenure never happened, while Ole is judged only on his time with Cardiff, which quite frankly is a fraction of his time in management, and at a club which was favorites to be relegated at the time.
I think Poch is very good, but nothing more. He is neither exceptional, nor extraordinary. I will be okay with his appointment, but I am not desperate for it like a few.
That's not really true, though, is it?
I mean if Ole was to be judged entirely on his brief stint as manager of the 'doomed regardless' Cardiff City, then he would never have been considered for the United job in the first place - temporary or otherwise. What he had achieved with Molde clearly impressed the relevant people in charge of the club. In combination with a good interview and that frankly adorable smile, he was practically a shoo-in for the job.
As an outsider, looking in, the Man Utd players stopped playing for Jose, no secret in that.
Ole has done well, the test will come, when he loses a couple of matches, and the fans start moaning.
Ole has done well, the test will come, when he loses a couple of matches, and the fans start moaning.
Bingo
Looks like more or less same as Poch's last season at Espanyol.
That's exactly my point. Apart from Pep every manager has at least one bad job in his resume.
If we don't choose Ole someone else will
I think people in here are misinformed about the work Pochettino and Klopp did at Espanyol and Mainz. While the endings weren't great, neither was a bad job for them. Pochettino saved Espanyol from relegation and led them to a couple decent finishes, and Klopp got Mainz promoted, and despite all the odds being stacked against him (no money favourites to go down) got them a few good finishes in the Bundesliga. On the whole you'd say both did a good job at their respective positions, which is why clubs went in for them.
That's not to say I think United shouldn't keep faith with Solksjaer, they should give him the job, he's done brilliantly.
Not only is Ole doing well, he is looking and sounding like a man utd manager - a breath of fresh air after Mourinho who I always said should go!
Try 99.9%
Possibly. If I was another club looking for a manager I might be concerned about how he talks in regards Utd though. He's saying all the right things since coming to us, but he also talks as an insider. Would he be as well spoken if he was at Everton for example?
You could arguably say peps time at bayern wasn't all round success.
Ole is a United insider. What a waste of time it would be doing what you're doing thinking of him hypothetically as a non Utd insider
My thoughts exactly
Well saying a City fan wants Poch in at United
Has anyone ever watched a Spurs game and been entertained apart from their fluke in the CL?
Ole is tactically proven in big games now whereas Plan A Poch isn't. That's before you even consider it's entertaining to watch Man Utd now and isn't to watch Spurs.
Ole is tactically proven in big games now whereas Plan A Poch isn't. That's before you even consider it's entertaining to watch Man Utd now and isn't to watch Spurs.
Nope. Never. Didn't enjoy us beat Everton 6-2 or Bournemouth 5-0 this season, nor us taking apart Chelsea 3-1. We're a really boring side. What fluke would that be?
Ole is 'tactically proven' after winning 2 big games, one in which he leaned heavily on the genius tactic of De Gea bailing you out. Miraculous.
We're not entertaining to watch right now because we're missing all of our star attacking players. It's not rocket science.
Not really. It is more the comparison with Solskjaer, that having a bad season in a club destined to be relegated doesn't make them bad managers. Ole took Cardiff in Jan when they were going to get relegated anyway, and relegated them. It doesn't make him a bad manager, same as last season at Mainz (or even at BVB for that matter) doesn't make Klopp a bad manager.
In Poch's particular case, he finished with Espanyol 11, 8 and 14 (average position is 11). In the previous 3 seasons they finished 11, 12 and 10 (average position 11). In next 3 seasons they finished 13 (were 20 when Poch was sacked), 14 and 10 (average position 12). Hardly a difference before him, with him and after him.
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Spurs suddenly get upgraded to top club despite hardly any investment on the team just so people can beat Pochettino with the no trophy drum. I’d like to see these trophy laden managers that have Espanyol, Soton and Spurs as their resume. The guy has been doing a consistently good job in England.
I think people overstate the tactical point of view of a manager. All tactics have been done before a million times and straight from a tactics manual.
Do you really think Ole going to Spurs and Arsenal away, compact defending well and trying to hit them on the break is really a masterclass genius tactic? Anyone who watches football would've played the same tactic given how poor we are defending openly and how fast or attackers can be.
Looks like more or less same as Poch's last season at Espanyol.
Poch wouldn't have gone to Emirates and outclassed them like Ole did. His shocking record away from home against big teams proves this. They're too open.
Yeah, everyone in the predictions thread and all the quality football press had Lukaku starting on the right at Arsenal. Literally everyone.
Love how we went to the Emirates this very season and won 2-0.
I don't find them particularly entertaining, but then I think that only City and Liverpool are entertaining (especially when they lose). They are alright though, but when someone mentions 'beautiful football', Spurs aren't one of the first things that comes to my mind.
There is also the tendency of the entire team being transformed into a collection of thugs when things don't go their way.
It seems to be to a lot of people atm, there's suddenly quite a few on here looking down their noses at Poch, whereas 5-6 weeks most were really excited when we were so heavily linked. It's weird how people can't see past this media crap about him winning trophies, when it is so plain that priorities have been on getting the CL money since he came in, & he is always just a few injuries away from his squad been exposed, hence why he's so keen to rest players in the Cups, this because Spurs can't invest in squad depth like the teams he's suddenly got them competing with year in year out, and even more so now they have just stopped spending.
Ole is undoubtably doing a fantastic job, but he's still some way off proving he's the man long term imo, even if he has been near perfect so far, and I still have the nagging thought that SAF is influencing this a lot more than we're lead to believe, no bad thing, but hardly sustainable long term. Real top managers are few and far between, so I think it's only right to reserve judgement on Ole for a bit yet.
I know you're a Spurs fan, but I really hope United are still doing all they can to lure Poch atm, rather than burn bridges like alot of fans seem to want to happen.
I watched the game against us a few weeks ago, and Spurs, in the 2nd half were terrific. Very entertaining for Spurs fans, no doubt. We won, but it required DDG to put in a 'performance of the season', which most other keepers would not be capable of.
I would be happy if we played like that, but Poch just doesn't know how to win a trophy and that is VERY important to me. Top 4 seems to be something he is very good at, though and again, I do not want us to become a top 4 club.
Ole seems like the sort of manager who aggressively goes out to win a match (and trophies) and I think is more suitable.
Also, 8 wins a row is just ridiculous. Jose managed 9 wins, I think, but Jose is an established elite level manager. Solkjaer is still in his learning years. And when you consider the turn around we have had since Solkjaer's arrival, you have to say that he is the most obvious candidate.
The only thing which would sway me, is if Poch won a trophy - but he won't be doing that this season.
Or maybe there are 2 sets of fans: those who wanted and still want Poch as our manager, and those who never wanted him.
I certainly wasn't one of those who were excited at the thought of Poch coming.
In fact, it was when we played Spurs, that I realised just how good they were. I had never seen Spurs play so well and dominate us in the way they did, in the 2nd half. Poch himself said that that 2nd half was the best his Spurs side had ever played. The issue is that Solkjaer is showing great ambition/intent to win every match (and trophies), something which Poch does not. I actually believe that we are going to win, when we play lesser teams. Under Jose and LVG, I always felt that there was a good chance we'd lose to a lesser team. Under Solkjaer, I expect us to score a minimum of 3 goals, against such sides, while comfortably beating them.
It seems to be coming down to Solkjaer vs Poch and for me, Solkjaer is in the lead, at this time.
I think this is just a consequence of who they can bring in. If you try and get in quality ball players on a budget you end with a bunch of fancy dans who aren't talented enough to outplay the big boys ("lads") and arent consistent enough to rack up points from other mid-table teams. Instead he's bought and coached a squad that's hardworking and tactically flexible, and used that to maximise the talent of the few high quality players they actually have (Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son, basically). I think the excitement of his football is definitely the biggest cross against Pochettino for me, Spurs can be technically and tactically excellent but they're rarely swashbuckling in the way Ole has got us playing. But I think thats largely a means to an end.
Not sure I agree. Klopp's BVB played brilliant football despite spending less money than Spurs, Jardim's Monaco player excellent football while winning the league and eliminating City from UCL, Sarri's Napoli played the best football in Europe last season, Spalleti's Roma played excellent football a few years back, Bielsa's various teams played batshit crazy but great to watch football.
There are countless examples of non-rich teams who play beautiful football.
Is that you Paul?
Well Klopp's last season at Mainz doesn't undo what came before, if someone is trying to compare Klopp's tenure at Mainz to Ole's at Cardiff then they're making a mistake. Klopp did wonders at Mainz.
Regarding Pochettino, he took over Espanyol when they were in the relegation zone and looked in bad shape, he managed to save them from relegation. Again you can't compare the job he did at Espanyol with the job Ole did at Cardiff, despite Cardiff being the harder job.
I agree with your fundamental point that a bad season at a club doesn't mean a manager, and I think different clubs suit different managers. If Warnock keeps Cardiff up with a weaker Cardiff side than the one Ole had, I'd still think Ole is more suited to a bigger club due to the football he plays.
Not so sure, there wasn't too many other names been banded about before Ole came out of nowhere, but perhaps you're right, obviously just easier to be more vocal about how 'wrong he is' for us atm probably.
8 February, 2018
March 7, 2018
September 19, 2019
There are other posters who have been saying the same for years.
I wasn't pointing the finger at you, much as I think some of that stuff was harsh at times, it was a more general statement.
You are always going to have the ones that are dead set for, or against something, it's the ones in the middle that appear to have suddenly decided Poch isn't all that, I've no idea what's wrong with saying Ole is doing great so let's see how it plays out, but Poch is a really good option still so let's keep all avenues open, obviously we should be looking at other managers as well.