If both available to the market right now, who would probably fetch more money?
Ander Herrera vs N'golo Kanté | Thread has gone well
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Kante is the more valuable player its not even close.
I actually agree with you but really just not as strongly and more importantly I think there are a few positions needed sorted out before we get to Herrera.
Don't get me wrong and this is where I assume we differ I think Herrera is a good player (and merits being in the squad)but just not good enough if we are going to become the best team in Europe again.
By the way much like TC23 or Blind last year you will get both us burned and crucified for airing this opinion! Herrera has started to get a cult following and I can understand why as he does give his all for the cause more visually than other players.
Stats never really paint the full picture and as someone mentioned Kante and Herrera would be an EPL winning midfield duo in the modern game (behind someone like KDB).
Whose better is hard to say but my take on it is as follows:
Both have moments of technical excellence and Herrera has a higher peak in this regard because he is a more imaginative footballer and used to be more of an attacking midfielder but his flaw is consistency on the ball.. he can sometimes lose control or look clumsy whereas Kante in general looks incredibly self assured in possession, serenely calm and almost press resistent .. very nimble precise turns and he has a superior perception of his surroundings whereas Herrera is definitely more head down and prone to brain farts in possession.
In terms of passing, Herrera has better attacking through balls but Kante for me has much more consistent technique in passing a ball. Even if we compare both their conservative passes, with Kante you rarely get the feeling he's going to misplace passes whereas with Herrera he's much more hot and cold in this regard. Now the stats may not bear this out but in terms of the feel I get when I see them on the ball Kante has more consistency.
Ball winning and influence on the game.. for me this is where people say Kante trumps Herrera who is the better footballer but my opinion is the opposite. Herrera for me is a brilliant ball winner and is playing in ill-disciplined and lethargic midfields and still looks exceptional in winnning the ball and he always looks at the hub of Uniteds midfield play whereas Kante looks on the periphery in Chelsea games.
Granted he was a key cog in Leicester and at Chelsea he is more facilitator rather than key component and I guess Herrera would be less influential in a side like that but I do think Herrera has more character and understated leadership. If we had Kante in our midfield I don't think those draws would be turned into wins, positions these lads play that would have no impact on getting ball in back of the net but I do think we need a Herrera more and Chelsea need a Kante more.
Conclusion is that Kante is a more solid footballer and reliable.. his base level is superior to Herrera. Herrera is a more infectious and impactful footballer at his best but he can be painfully average at times and more prone to bad moments. I don't think there is a definitive winner but Kante edges it for me at the moment.
Whose better is hard to say but my take on it is as follows:
Both have moments of technical excellence and Herrera has a higher peak in this regard because he is a more imaginative footballer and used to be more of an attacking midfielder but his flaw is consistency on the ball.. he can sometimes lose control or look clumsy whereas Kante in general looks incredibly self assured in possession, serenely calm and almost press resistent .. very nimble precise turns and he has a superior perception of his surroundings whereas Herrera is definitely more head down and prone to brain farts in possession.
In terms of passing, Herrera has better attacking through balls but Kante for me has much more consistent technique in passing a ball. Even if we compare both their conservative passes, with Kante you rarely get the feeling he's going to misplace passes whereas with Herrera he's much more hot and cold in this regard. Now the stats may not bear this out but in terms of the feel I get when I see them on the ball Kante has more consistency.
Ball winning and influence on the game.. for me this is where people say Kante trumps Herrera who is the better footballer but my opinion is the opposite. Herrera for me is a brilliant ball winner and is playing in ill-disciplined and lethargic midfields and still looks exceptional in winnning the ball and he always looks at the hub of Uniteds midfield play whereas Kante looks on the periphery in Chelsea games.
Granted he was a key cog in Leicester and at Chelsea he is more facilitator rather than key component and I guess Herrera would be less influential in a side like that but I do think Herrera has more character and understated leadership. If we had Kante in our midfield I don't think those draws would be turned into wins, positions these lads play that would have no impact on getting ball in back of the net but I do think we need a Herrera more and Chelsea need a Kante more.
Conclusion is that Kante is a more solid footballer and reliable.. his base level is superior to Herrera. Herrera is a more infectious and impactful footballer at his best but he can be painfully average at times and more prone to bad moments. I don't think there is a definitive winner but Kante edges it for me at the moment.
This is like the RAWK thread saying Henderson is better than Pogba. We seriously need to stop overhyping our players when we are rotting in sixth place and likely to drop to seventh the way Everton are playing.
What's will all the league position mentioned to play down Herrera? Unless Kante would somehow make our attackers finish chances, I dont see what that has to do with anything. Our league position is what it is because our attackers cant score in a brothel, it has feckall to do with Herrera or our CM in general.
There's the answer of who is better then.
Either you have very low expectation for a brilliant player, or you're very bias. None of our players have been brilliant this season, thus we're 6th. Herrera has been good for the majority of his games played. He's a good squad player. Never in a million years brilliant.
What has Herrera got to do with the inability of our attackers to finish chances? Would Kante playing for us make Ibra and co better finishers?
Had Kante remained in Leicester this year, he would have fought relegation along with his other team mates. He was not the reason they won PL last year. He is not the reason Chelsea are about to win it this year. He was just a part of the set up. Kante got lucky. It's as simple as that.
Herrera is as good as Kante, if not better. But he is just not a toy outside our reach. He is simply a guy we see in our familiar jersey every week. Where is the romance in that?
Herrera is as good as Kante, if not better. But he is just not a toy outside our reach. He is simply a guy we see in our familiar jersey every week. Where is the romance in that?
I've pointed these stats out before to people that ask "what does Herrera offer?". The answer is "literally a bit of everything"
Kante is obviously and deservedly considered the better player but Herrera seems underrated by a lot of people and it's really difficult to fathom why. Our problems this season have been up front, we've dominated just about every football match we've played -thanks mainly to our excellent midfield.
Kante is obviously and deservedly considered the better player but Herrera seems underrated by a lot of people and it's really difficult to fathom why. Our problems this season have been up front, we've dominated just about every football match we've played -thanks mainly to our excellent midfield.
Yeah, I am not saying I disagree with you; I just think it is impossible to prove.
It just seems to me that people have made up their minds Kante is a class above Herrera. This season a bunch of stats appear to contradict this view and some people are now trying to argue never mind the measurable metrics, Kante dominates Herrera at all the x-factor intangibles that you cannot measure properly. I think this ridiculous: stats don't tell the whole story but they do tell enough of the story to question the idea Kante is that much better than Herrera.
The difference is Kante's team mates are not goal shy otherwise Herrera would be getting the same respect from fans and media. Herrera can win as many tackles as he wants and intercept a thousand times it's going to be useless when everyone besides Zlatan can't score simple goals
I have read this a few times, and it still doesn't make sense.
Yeah that does sound pretty shit. Hopefully you survived the night. If not, RIP.
Hes a good player, offers a bit of everything yes. But he doesn't excel at anything. Hes not brilliant at any one aspect of the game, which is why a lot of people don't see him as a long term option for us. Jack of all trades, master of none.
I do not see him being a key part of a side that wins the league. Just my personal opinion. Hes a better version of cleverley, but hes spanish, looks like he cares, even though cleverley probably cared an awful lot) and interviews well, which makes people love him.
But he is not great in the defensive third, attacking third or on the ball.
I like Ander a lot and he is having a good season, but it isn't fair to compare him to the best CM in this league.
Clearly, Chelsea and United fans are too biased.
The better way would be to ask the neutral fans who would they rather have in their teams. I'd love to see how many would pick Herrera.
The better way would be to ask the neutral fans who would they rather have in their teams. I'd love to see how many would pick Herrera.
Incredible isn't it? Add in to that Kante winning back to back trophies, like Chelsea couldn't possibly have won the league without him.
Are people really saying if Herrera was at Chelsea and Kante at United we would be winning the league?
Kante would do even better in United's formation. Herrera only has to watch the middle of the park, he has two fullbacks on either side of the CB's and Wide Midfielders which cover the fullbacks. He doesn't have cover wide areas.
Kante has a defence which often resorts to a back five with no protection for the wingbacks. He and matic have to work the entire strip of the field in front of the defence.
Since Chelsea switched to a back 3 Kante has been as dominant as he was last season. It was when he was told to stand in front og the back 4 on a leash that he had real lacklustre games.
Also, Kante's positional awareness is insane, its why he can pressure the opposition wherever they are on the pitch and force mistakes.
Kante seems to be a bit faster than Herrera so that's in his favour. But, I think that Herrera would be more highly rated if he had better players around him, like Kante.
This. The caf is a great forum but it is prone to some Rawkisms every once in a while.
Reminds me of when many posters said Nani was better than Bale and Silva.
I think it's telling that pretty much all the neutrals have said Kante. I really like Herrera and he has impressed this season but I still believe he is behind the likes of Kante, Dembele, Fernandinho and Wanyama in that position. They play with a lot more maturity and understanding of the role but it's to be expected as Herrera just started playing there this season.
So having three centrebacks, an additional defensive midfielder and 2 wing backs makes his job harder? That's some strange logic there. Ignoring Valencia basically playing as a winger and Mata and Martial on the wings providing minimal protection of course.
@MadMike already pointed out Kante struggled in the same formation Herrera is playing in at the moment earlier on in the season and you come to the conclusion he would improve playing in it?
Please. Herrera covers the entire right flank when Valencia goes marauding. He has ended up at RM and RB positions many many times. He doesn't just cover the middle.
I'm gonna start a Zlatan v Batshuayi thread.
That was obviously a dangle and you took the bait
Mourinho hasnt got a leg to stand on. It doesn't matter about the difference between Chelsea's goals and United's. United can have been as Uber critical in finishing as possible, but Chelsea would still have won if the best goal tallys in the league. Only one behind Liverpool i heard? Also 'Wingbacks are pushed all the way up' - oops, bit of a slip of narrative there? Cowering defensive coach Conte 'tactically positions' 5 players in attacking phases? Oh right, i guess it's the fact that attacking plays are coached with specific positions that means its defensive?
The fact were 2nd in the top mini league renders your statement as BS. On top of that if were so defensive im not sure why were the second highest scorers in the league, the fact that you have scored one more goal than west ham this year says something about your statement.
Sorry, I love Ander like most of us do
But Kante is about to win back to back PL titles, and Ander can barely get back to back Spain call-ups.
His passion and love for United means most fans will show a bias for him, but Kante is much better.
But Kante is about to win back to back PL titles, and Ander can barely get back to back Spain call-ups.
His passion and love for United means most fans will show a bias for him, but Kante is much better.
Did Kante have higher rated players with him at Leicester?
Don't know; it isn't as if neutrals are without bias. The notion of Kante as world class is now pervasive. It is like Chuck Norris: only aliens can question his invincibility!
So if Chelsea had Herrera instead of Kante they wouldn't be top of the league this year?
Only thing Kante is better at than Herrera is winning the ball, and I don't think that necessarily makes him better than Herrera let alone by a country mile
Using league position to tell which player is superior is not correct. ManUtd won the league with players like Cleverley in the midfield. Cahill is winning 2nd league title in 3 years, same as Matic. Does that mean Cahill is better than Alderweireld?
Kante's stock is higher as he will be arguably the most important cog in two league winning sides
Herrera has really improved this season - I still am not sure who is the better player though - I'd call it even in terms of stats
I wonder had our attacking players produced this season and we would be within 3/4 points of Chelsea would we hear more about Ander's performances?
Herrera has really improved this season - I still am not sure who is the better player though - I'd call it even in terms of stats
I wonder had our attacking players produced this season and we would be within 3/4 points of Chelsea would we hear more about Ander's performances?
Chelsea are going to win the league and we're sixth. That is how these things usually work out, individual performances are usually balanced in terms of how they are critiqued with the performance of the team as a whole.
Saying that Kante has been better this season, but not by much.
Saying that Kante has been better this season, but not by much.
I dont think you have even touched my point. Kante has 5 players in a line behind him, that may offer protection if he makes a mistake but it doesn't help him a bit in actually doing his job of protecting them. Afterall, this is the bone we are contendig - How good Kante and Herrera are defensively.
Herrera has a team where the wide areas are covered better and more importantly higher up the pitch. Chelsea surrender more space and sit deep, Kante has to cover, along with matic or Fabregas, all of the space in front if the defence on order for them to keep their shape.
So having essentially 5 defenders and just one other midfielder makes his job harder.
You also seem clueless as to the position Kante actually played before the switch to 343. For all intents and purposes he was the 3rd of centre back, at least positionally wise. Thats the most important point, his restraint from moving away from the cbs. But other obvious disanalogies are available. Kante was the DM in a 3 man midfield with Oscar and Matic is another which show there were far more differences between the position Kante played in earlier on in the season to make any meaningful comparisons with Herrera's positions this season. Sorry to say you are entirely mistaken.
That's it.
Anyone remember Kante made 14 tackles alone at Anfield in a game Liverpool really pushing us?
United are playing wide football. A lot of pace and room for going forward but also a lot of pace and room for opponents attacking you. When you are under the threat, you tend to make more tackle and interception.
On the other hand, Chelsea this season is super organized and solid defensively. It is the controlling team in most of the games. When things are in control, you don't have to do much stuff of interception or tackle.
Edit: But I repeat, the battle will be on Monday's night.
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One of them is the favourite for footballer of the year...