Fair enough. Didn't Poggers and Kante play together pre-Tournament though? Not consistently ofc
Ander Herrera vs N'golo Kanté | Thread has gone well
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Fair enough. Didn't Poggers and Kante play together pre-Tournament though? Not consistently ofc
What's the issue? He was at Leicester, he played 90mins in almost every game. Won the league, only losing 3 games. Signed to Chelsea, playing 90minds again in almost every game and again only losing 3 games so far and enroute to another league win. That's an impressive CV, espically given the changing circumstances at both clubs since he was there and wasn't.
Alternatively Herrera has done it for a few months. A purple patch of form nothing more so far. The same happened to Smalling and Jones both of whom got overrated on the Caf. Only natural being a United forum but some of you are barking mad.
They did and Kanté stole the show but once again Deschamps already had his team. Remember, France are like Netherland, if we don't have a tight team things can turn ugly pretty fast, that's why Deschamps manages it that way.
Kante is just better athlete, Herrera is better in pretty much everything else, both players are great for their teams though, os not taking credit from either, but I found it very stupid to say that one player is much better than the other. I rate Herrera higher as he's much better and all round footballer but Kante's athleticity is amazing, all that saying Herrera managed to be better interceptor and tackler without anywhere near Kante's pace...
the argument that Kante is leading Chlsea to the title is pretty poor as Chelsea play much better as a unit and managed to score goals when needed unlike us whn Ibra, Pogba and co fail to score in shitload of clear cut chances, our midfield performs as much as Chelsea's if not better when Pogs is on song (unfortunately he doesnt not turn up in big games more often than not) our attacking play and finishing is struggling this year - see goals..
also Kante may be playing in "midifled two" but in a defense of with often one of the CBs stepping out which makes his job easier, Herrera usually plays next to Pogba who is shocking defensively at times, which makes his defensive efforts even more formidable..
So for me Herrera>Kante even though it's not by a big margin, the next game might show us more even though the game is played at SfB which gives Chelsea a big advantage and it's a game of 11 players so whoever manage to win this game the respective player might be given more praise despite both could be having good games..
the argument that Kante is leading Chlsea to the title is pretty poor as Chelsea play much better as a unit and managed to score goals when needed unlike us whn Ibra, Pogba and co fail to score in shitload of clear cut chances, our midfield performs as much as Chelsea's if not better when Pogs is on song (unfortunately he doesnt not turn up in big games more often than not) our attacking play and finishing is struggling this year - see goals..
also Kante may be playing in "midifled two" but in a defense of with often one of the CBs stepping out which makes his job easier, Herrera usually plays next to Pogba who is shocking defensively at times, which makes his defensive efforts even more formidable..
So for me Herrera>Kante even though it's not by a big margin, the next game might show us more even though the game is played at SfB which gives Chelsea a big advantage and it's a game of 11 players so whoever manage to win this game the respective player might be given more praise despite both could be having good games..
Not just a caf thing to be fair. I believe it was a player or pundit that said he was seeing double when watching Kante play. Hell even Fergie came out and said he was the best player in the league last year.
The thing that most people like you do not understand or, should I say, do not want to understand is that, those league wins are not down to one player.
It is a product of multiple players playing in a system that suits them and with a manager that's driving them to win. Would Kante have made Leicester win another league title? No, he'd probably be down there, fighting relegation.
The funny thing about this thread is that managers like Jorge Jesus, Bielsa, Simeone or Jardim would be perfectly happy with both in a midfield two. We don't really need to create a competition between them.
I'm very curious to see how we line up tomorrow without Ibra and how Poggers will deal with Kante's press this time.
Yeah, but we have Pog. Moving him to the wings or further up does not seem to suit him
Well I mean pundits are notorious bandwagon jumpers. No one I know in actual real life rates him nearly as highly as plenty on here seem to. I mean he's a good player but he's not even Chelsea's best player let alone the best around like some would have you believe. Sometimes I think I'm watching a different player than the one that some on here seem to be watching. What I see is a good player but that's it.
Pogba has been a bit shit when closed down well this season anyway. Add to that the fact that Chelsea are better than all around the pitch and it doesn't bode well irrespective of the job Kante does.
Simple. He'll get Fellaini to elbow him and knock him out.
Kante by far
If Fellaini starts tomorrow someone better Elbow me and knock me out or I will need some heavy anti-depressants to deal with it.
Since when is comparing trophy hauls an indicator of how good a player is? It's like saying DDG is a mid-table team GK as in his finest seasons with us we've finished 7th, 4th and 5th.
They are two very different players used in teams with different tactics. For us, Herrera is the sole defensive midfielder and it's obvious his interceptions tackles numbers will be high. Chelsea play Kante next to Matic, so his numbers will obviously be lower. But at the same time, if Kante makes a mistake, there is Matic to cover up for him, in our case, there is no one and hence, Herrera's role has more responsibility that way.
Herrera is pretty good offensively, Kante is pretty one dimensional.
It's a bit like RVN vs Henry debate. One was the best finisher in that time but Henry was more rounded. In this case, as well, one is the best, possibly ever, in winning the ball back but Herrera has more to his game than just that
They are two very different players used in teams with different tactics. For us, Herrera is the sole defensive midfielder and it's obvious his interceptions tackles numbers will be high. Chelsea play Kante next to Matic, so his numbers will obviously be lower. But at the same time, if Kante makes a mistake, there is Matic to cover up for him, in our case, there is no one and hence, Herrera's role has more responsibility that way.
Herrera is pretty good offensively, Kante is pretty one dimensional.
It's a bit like RVN vs Henry debate. One was the best finisher in that time but Henry was more rounded. In this case, as well, one is the best, possibly ever, in winning the ball back but Herrera has more to his game than just that
Honestly I don't think he will. Don't worry
When you have folks like these coming out with totally absurd statements like this, you cannot not make it into a competition
Well the fact that you're comparing Kante to Makelele in the first place makes people think that Kante is 'widely overrated'. I mean, Kante is good, good player but I seem to remember Makelele being in league of his own for good 5-6 years so if Herrera needs to do it longer than 6 months then Kante needs to do it for 5-6 years before he gets put in the same league as Claude Makelele.
Not always. Many players have won POTY from non-champions teams.
Name the ones from a team which has been deemed to have severely underperformed.
Come on, you don't just make random statements in threads that's not relevant to the thread. Herrera's name begins with H is also a statement of fact, but it would look a bit odd in a thread about players quality, wouldn't it?
It's a discussion forum, it's not outlandish to ask a hypothetical question, try looking in, I don't know, every single thread!
Scott Parker? West Ham got relegated that year iirc. Or are we talking about a different award?
He's not on the same level yet, and he's not an identical player, but there are some very noticeable similarities. As you say it remains to be seen whether he can do it for 5-6 years, but so far the signs are promising.
Worth remembering though that the acceptance that Maka was world class and such a vitally important player largely came after he stopped playing top flight football. Before that it was mostly his fellow pros telling people how important he was, and that's why I find it a bit funny to hear people talking down the opinions of the pros who say Kante is outstanding.
Yes he does count. I think he won the writers award that year didn't he?
What? I was saying players from non-champions. Bale, van Persie, and Suarez spring to mind.
Yeah I agree Makelele and Kante are different players obviously playing in the same position but nevertheless different. Also, I can't really remember now what other football fans thought of Makelele but I personally admired him. Used to sign him on Pro Evo 4-5 haha.
Yeah I think that was the one.
I made a joke that's relevant to the thread, because I saw a few posts about Kante about to win back to back titles, so I made reference to Herrera's lack of back to back international call ups. I don't know how many times I have to explain that, it's pretty straightforward.
After that I cleared up that Kante being part of the two possible PL winners in as many years wasn't the reason why I think he's better than Herrera.
If you wanted to find out why I think Kante is better, or what relevance Kante's inclusion in 2 title winning squads compared to Herrera not getting into the Spanish side frequently, you could have asked those questions.
Instead you chose to probe me on whether I think Chelsea would be top of the table with Herrera instead of Kante.
I said originally that POTY awards take into account the performance of the team as a whole usually, I didn't say they had to be champions.
Basically Herrera won't get much praise whilst we're sitting 6th and underperforming as a team. Not that I think he should win POTY btw.
Makelele was also wildly overrated. Can't blame Perez for wanting to upgrade him for someone a bit less useless on the ball. Think they wanted Vieira but it didn't work out.
Like david fecking ginola in the 1999 season. What a travesty that was. Could have been one of about 6 united players.
Makelele was absolutely not useless on the ball.
Man, did you guys even watch Kante play against us? If anything, we're a benchmark, and we just couldn't get the better of him anytime we played against him. He is a nightmare, an absolute nightmare to play against because in the opposition's box, he's always setting up a 2-on-1 situation.
Nobody says, that the results of the team are the only thing that matters. Of course not. A team has better and worse players.
Guys like Bale, van Persie, and Suarez or DDG have been absolute stand-out performers in their teams and everybody recognised that.
Herrera is nothing like that for us, even if you take only a few month of this season into account. If we had to argue about who our stand-out performer is, it has to be Zlatan. Maybe you could make a case for Micki, but he missed too many games. After these two players we have 5-6 players (Vallencia, Bailly, Carrick, Pog, Herrera, DDG) who are *roughly* on the same level. Even guys like Mata or Rojo are doing alright. You can make a case for or against any of them, but I don't think that any is really standing out. If I take Herrera's complete career in Manchester into account, the whole thing looks a lot worse. He wasn't even a nailed-on started till the start of this season.
On the other hand Kante is going to be the dominant midfielder for two title winning teams. He wasn't the best player in these teams, but he was vital for both of them. That should tell you something. Not a lot, but something.
Following the caf love-ins of certain players we'd have a team full of worldclass players, because Martial, Pogba, Mata, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Shaw, Jones, Smalling, Rafael were all considered to be world-class in the making. Herrera is just another one in a list of names, who gets overhyped after playing good for 5 month.
Herrera is a very good player, but if you look around in the world of football, there are a lot of players around his level. Nothing wrong with that.
Guys like Bale, van Persie, and Suarez or DDG have been absolute stand-out performers in their teams and everybody recognised that.
Herrera is nothing like that for us, even if you take only a few month of this season into account. If we had to argue about who our stand-out performer is, it has to be Zlatan. Maybe you could make a case for Micki, but he missed too many games. After these two players we have 5-6 players (Vallencia, Bailly, Carrick, Pog, Herrera, DDG) who are *roughly* on the same level. Even guys like Mata or Rojo are doing alright. You can make a case for or against any of them, but I don't think that any is really standing out. If I take Herrera's complete career in Manchester into account, the whole thing looks a lot worse. He wasn't even a nailed-on started till the start of this season.
On the other hand Kante is going to be the dominant midfielder for two title winning teams. He wasn't the best player in these teams, but he was vital for both of them. That should tell you something. Not a lot, but something.
Following the caf love-ins of certain players we'd have a team full of worldclass players, because Martial, Pogba, Mata, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Shaw, Jones, Smalling, Rafael were all considered to be world-class in the making. Herrera is just another one in a list of names, who gets overhyped after playing good for 5 month.
Herrera is a very good player, but if you look around in the world of football, there are a lot of players around his level. Nothing wrong with that.
This thread should be interesting if - in a one-off game on Monday - Herrera happens to have a better match than Kante. Lot of "I told you he was better!" I imagine.
Ask yourself this, if every manager in the league (or around Europe for that matter) was given the choice between the two would any take Herrera instead of Kante? Very, very few, if any.
This question would be considered laughable outside of this forum. Herrera is a very solid midfielder. A nice, 7/10 performer week in and week out. Kante is a dominant player and in a different class.
Ask yourself this, if every manager in the league (or around Europe for that matter) was given the choice between the two would any take Herrera instead of Kante? Very, very few, if any.
This question would be considered laughable outside of this forum. Herrera is a very solid midfielder. A nice, 7/10 performer week in and week out. Kante is a dominant player and in a different class.
Probe
I asked you a question to get your opinon. Instead you side stepped and became all defensive. If you aren't prepared to discuss things then don't post on a discussion forum.
I'll make a point of not bothering to converse with you in future, I could do without the drama.
Probe
I asked you a question to get your opinon. Instead you side stepped and became all defensive. If you aren't prepared to discuss things then don't post on a discussion forum. Keep your hair on.
You assumed I thought Kante was better because he was going to win back to back titles, I flat out didn't say that.
I've had to explain this at least 4 times now, and even discussed why I believed he's better than Herrera with a couple other posters, but i'm the defensive one.
I asked you a question and you refused to answer it. I asked again and you told me how ridiculous it was to ask a hypothetical question, still refusing to answer the question. You then said it had absolutely nothing to do with the thread and that it was a statement of fact, then it was a joke. So yes, I would say you're bring needlessly defensive. It's not they hard to answer 'yes' or 'no', really, is it?You assumed I thought Kante was better because he was going to win back to back titles, I flat out didn't say that.
I've had to explain this at least 4 times now, and even discussed why I believed he's better than Herrera with a couple other posters, but i'm the defensive one.