It's similarly amazing how one performance against each other has completely turned the tide on this thread
Ander Herrera vs N'golo Kanté | Thread has gone well
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's similarly amazing how one performance against each other has completely turned the tide on this thread
Herrera has been playing in this role consistently for the first time this season and he has outshone Kante. So the comparison will only make sense when you do it for this season. It's ridiculous that our own fans say Herrera is inconsistent although they claim to see him every week. He has been our most consistent performer after Valencia.
You were few posts ago still going on about Kante is best CM by some distance, which has been proven by stats, performance that Kante ain't that far ahead. No it's not from yesterday game. It has been before this thread created where people felt that Kante was overhyped by English media while Herrera went unnoticed despite "not being far off'
This very thread was created after many scattered discussion about Kante & Herrera in different threads.
To some extent, my view has always been that I'd rather Ander. I think Kante is great at what he does and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't sign him. I merely think Ander has more strings to his bow.
Since Ander started playing in the Xabi Alonso role he has excelled. So much so that he's been called up to join the Spain midfield selection, which is probably the toughest to get into. I think we'd be hard pressed to find a player who can give us everything he does at #6: Offensively as well as defensively.
I dont know if Squawka is taking the piss, but every single thing I click on per 90 metrics, Herrera betters Kante.
I do believe Kante is the better CM, yes.
Fair do's, makes sense and good post.
It's your opinion, so I respect it.
I personally think Kante has performed overall better this season but is more one dimensional and easier to take out of the game (by containing his passing options, the damage dealers from Chelsea team). In the long run, I think Herrera (not really same position) Pogba (similar position) will leave Kante behind. They can fulfil their role to high level, and capable to go beyond in case their options being limited.
A couple of very good posts, nice to see some tactical insight on here.
Next season will see Herrera get the recognition he deserves imo. We'll be higher up the table so his role will be highlighted more and more.
Let's just toe the general consensus that Kante is a unfallable diety and not let actual statistics get in the way. Great way to avoid being biased
Yeah, there has been a swing the other way since yesterday.
My personal view is that they are about par, with both equally important to their team but Kante is the ever so slightly overrated one because he has built up a reputation based over the last two seasons. This is Herrera's first really good season for us.
This leads to the one significant point in Kante's favour, which is consistency; but I think he has had the perfect conditions for consistency: for two seasons, he has been ever present in a team playing roughly once a week allowing both match rhythm and rest. Herrera, on the other hand, played only sporadically last season; this season he has had a lot of high intensity minutes and, in some games, he has looked tired. Next season the conditions will be more like for like and I think we will see a significant drop off in Kante's relative consistency.
Let's just toe the general consensus that Kante is a unfallable diety and not let actual statistics get in the way. Great way to avoid being biased
Thanks for your input
This thread is mentioned on the ShedEnd forum. 
I wouldn't swap Herrera for Kante but I am pretty sure Chelsea wouldn't swap Kante for Herrera. In the counter attacking systems employed by Chelsea and Leicester, Kante is a more effective player.
If you need a versatile player who can provide tactical flexibility, balance to play in a 2 next to Pogba and still offer creativity going forward then Herrera is a much better bet.
Kante is exceptional at one area of midfield play. Herrera is much more complete midfield player who can do most things very well but you wouldn't say he is exceptional at anything.
If you need a versatile player who can provide tactical flexibility, balance to play in a 2 next to Pogba and still offer creativity going forward then Herrera is a much better bet.
Kante is exceptional at one area of midfield play. Herrera is much more complete midfield player who can do most things very well but you wouldn't say he is exceptional at anything.
Kind of, his individual quality should not be determined by what ever he did yesterday.
United had pretty much every passing option locked out for him, he couldn't really go forward as we had Hazard and Pedro marked up, everything that was passed up to Costa was bouncing off him he couldn't go back because Lingard and Rashford were all over their defence.
He was also under constant pressure from Pogba and or Felliani every time the ball was played in his direction.
While it's possible for a player to play brilliantly themselves while being in a poor side, or a player to play poorly in a brilliant side, Kantes options to anything other than what he did were extremely limited.
I don't think there is a direct comparison to be made between Kante and Herrera. Kante excels at his role while Herrera is more versatile while not excelling at any one particular role besides man marking Hazard
One of his qualities is getting the ball to the attackers inder pressure. I don't know why this quality of his gets ignored. People think he is just harasser and a tackler but his play under pressure is underrated or blatantly ignored.
Kante is not a box2box midfielder as he does not have the skill sets to be one,. A box to box midfielder is a CM that contributes on both the defensive and offensive sides of the ball (essentially a 2-way player). Kante wins back the ball and makes short range passes, he rarely dribbles nor gets into the opposition box and is overall offensively challenged. He is more like Makelele than Vidal or Ramires
This is independent of where the coach decides to play him (e.g. Mourinho playing Fellaini upfront doesnt make him a striker). At Leceister, Drinkwater was the more attacking of the midfield pairing, and a better exmple of what a box2box midfielder is. At Chelsea, both Kante and Matic are DMs (one of the reasons they are difficult to breakdown) with Kante being more mobile, while when Cesc is playing along side Kante, Kante is the only DM.
Herrera on the other hand does have the skill sets of a box2box midfielder, no more clearly exemplified by his performance yesterday: man marked an attacker (which typically means you spend most of the time in your half); provided a through ball pass from midfield to setup a goal; and scored a goal himself. Last season, Herrera scored 5 goals in 27 appearances while Kante only managed 1 in 40.
It's true in 95% of the indivdual stats you use. Herrera beats Kante. Doesn't matter if its attacking or defensive stats.
Your wrote an awful lot, but you need to watch Kante closer. He transitions the play from defence to attack, he also drives the ball high up the pitch. He is box to box.
The fact you say he rarely dribbles makes me think you don't watch him, both last season (more so) and this season, his ability to quickly dribble to ball into the oppositions half is one of his key attributes.
There is no way in hell you have seen more than 60 minutes of Kante playing.
Better comparison would be with Park; to whom I think we've finally found a much needed replacement.
Both Kante and Herrera have more similarities than differences. They are both a manager's dream midfielders. Tell them to do a hard working job and they'll do exactly what is asked. Hence they are, in a way, a proper reflection of their manager's tactics. In yesterday's game, Conte didn't know what hit him and unsurprisingly Kante was completely lost for the majority of the game. He was following his manager's instructions but they just didn't work.
I didn't dish anything out, just stated an opinion on a player through my years of analyzing Herrera. He made a very offensive comment and shouldn't be engaged with on any level if this forum wants to have any sense of productive discussion. Debate is good, offensive and insulting comments are not!
I don't understand why there is any statistical debate on who the better player is. Less intelligent individuals are comparing the total stats of Kante to Herrera, when Kante has played 688 more minutes of football (+7.6 games) than Herrera. Not a very smart thing to do. Per 90 statistics tell you Herrera is better all around midfielder than Kante.
Attack per 90: Herrera creates 1.42 chances, 1.21 key passes, and scores 0.04 goals. Kante creates 0.58 chances, 0.55 key passes, and scores 0.03 goals. -> Herrera is the clear winner
Possession per 90: Kante is at 89% passing, and Herrera is at 88%. But Herrera wins 47% of his duels where Kante only wins 40% -> Close, but slight advantage to Herrera as he wins 27% more aerial duels.
Defense per 90: Herrera wins 2.45 tackles, 3.66 interceptions, 0.26 blocks, and 2.45 clearances. Kante wins 2.33 tackles, 2.40 interceptions, 0.13 blocks, and 1.43 clearances. -> Shockingly Herrera emerges as the clear winner.
Stats aside, if you watch Kante, its clear he's consistently better at the defensive aspect of the B2B midfield role than Herrera. Note Herrera isn't a pure B2B. He's being deployed as a ball winning midfielder who in possession plays more like a deep lying play-maker. Despite the more conservative restriction on when he can move up the field, Herrera manages to impact more aspects of the game (attack, possession, defense). Which makes him a better player in my opinion.
This thread is mentioned on the ShedEnd forum.
He does have a point.
I don't know who's better between the two but I wouldn't swap Herrera for Kante, I know that much
Herrera was great against Chelsea but i think that Kante is better than him.
And i don't think that Kante is a WC midfielder, just good for the premier league
And i don't think that Kante is a WC midfielder, just good for the premier league
Of course, what he does is very simple and he's backed by another defensive midfielder. How hard can that be?
The love for Kante on this forum is shocking and irritating. If Pogba played like Kante did on Sunday, he will be cut to pieces here and in the media.
No they're not. The media and his fanboys will make you believe he actually better that what we see.
Could you do it?
Funny thing is, if Ander was playing like he's been been playing this season, for another team, this forum would wank themselves into a frenzy.
The simplicity of what he does is what makes him consistent. When Kante man marks an attacker at the same time creates and score a goal, I will come back and rephrase my comment.
So you want to say Utd aren't a tough opponent or you happened to miss both the UTD vs Chelsea games before this?Coz he scored twice against Utd and played well in both the games
Yeah, in one after Ander was... sent off
There's no simplicity about it. Defending is an art. Attackers have the choice of where and what they want to do. Defenders have to react to the choice of the attacker.
He's been compared to another player that adds attacking to his game. So, compare to the job Herrera has to do on the pitch, Kante's job is very simple.
Erm, am not in the right frame of mind to debate with Kante fanboys this morning, so you are right with whatever you have to say.
This thread is mentioned on the ShedEnd forum.
However, some of them agree that they don't have many players in their team who can do a job like Herrera.