Anderson

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Beachryan said:
We complain about his fitness, but there are plenty of truly class footballers that only manage parts of a match. Ozil and Van der Vaart come to mind.

Ando on form for 70 minutes is a starting choice for me.
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poor comparisons to support ando.

vdv is not utd quality and the only time he played at club our size (RM) he did OK but never really made his mark.

ozil on the other hand is one of the most devastating attacking midfielders on the planet with his passing. Razor precise....a lazy bastard but his technical ability and passing effectiveness is lightyears beyond what ando has shown.

so what you are saying is if you ca only manage parts of the match you shouldn't be at a club like utd or have genuinely world class talent levels.

Well ando doesnt have the latter, so does he belong here in the first XI?
 
VoetbalWizard said:
poor comparisons to support ando.

vdv is not utd quality and the only time he played at club our size (RM) he did OK but never really made his mark.

ozil on the other hand is one of the most devastating attacking midfielders on the planet with his passing. Razor precise....a lazy bastard but his technical ability and passing effectiveness is lightyears beyond what ando has shown.

so what you are saying is if you ca only manage parts of the match you shouldn't be at a club like utd or have genuinely world class talent levels.

Well ando doesnt have the latter, so does he belong here in the first XI?
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That's incredibly harsh mate. His performance alone was enough to have him be in the starting XI for the next match. The management obviously think he's fit enough to start. Now, it seems he's building up his match fitness.

The thought is the more games he plays, the better he will manage his fitness levels throughout the game. No one else in our team plays the way Anderson. Runs around like a Ferrari with Turbo boost on the whole time. Problem is, that boost will only last so long. Once it ran out, he looked gassed. From today's match, I think he ran himself into the ground and it caught up with him. Let's see how long he lasts in the upcoming games.
 
When possible he should be starting with Carrick.
 
I think the issue with his fitness mainly comes from wasted energy. He takes about 16 touches to do what Carrick or Scholes do in 3. Pass the ball to fullback, receive it back, pass the ball to CB, receive it back, spread play out to the left. You can let the ball do more of the work like these players and take a touch then pass.
 
Beachryan said:
We complain about his fitness, but there are plenty of truly class footballers that only manage parts of a match. Ozil and Van der Vaart come to mind.

Ando on form for 70 minutes is a starting choice for me.
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Yup. Start him with Cleverley, too, who handles so much of the workload. He wouldn't last as long alongside just Carrick, or Carrick and Scholes.
 
Top said:
Yeah I'd like to see anyone remain fit for 90 minutes while playing like Ando.
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This is what most people ignore when comparing to other players that consistently manage to finish 90 minutes. Very few play at the pace he plays. If he slows down then we lose what is some of his best qualities. Personally I'd rather get him at this top speed for 75 minutes a game than a Ando that players at 80% so he can complete 90 minutes.

Also, for him to build have a chance to build enough fitness to where he can play at his normal pace and complete 90 minutes, he needs consecutive games, which right now he doesn't get. Every single player says it - you just can't train enough to get match fitness.

Am sure he can also learn to throttle back at times but, I've not seen him run aimlessly these days where you can say, if he just didn't make those needless runs then he will be able to last the 90.

Glad he had a good game, hopefully he will start again this weekend.
 
Shimo said:
This is what most people ignore when comparing to other players that consistently manage to finish 90 minutes. Very few play at the pace he plays. If he slows down then we lose what is some of his best qualities. Personally I'd rather get him at this top speed for 75 minutes a game than a Ando that players at 80% so he can complete 90 minutes.
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Jordan Henderson completed 90 minutes last year a fair few times. Look how shite he is compared to Anderson.

People are overstating his inability to play 90 minutes. If someone can come on for the last 20 and make an impact that is a bonus after Ando has played well.
 
I used to think his fitness levels were a big pb to his development but I'm changing my mind after each of his matches.His style of play has a lot to do with how tired he gets and how long he lasts.
Like many said I'd take a quality 65-70 min from him in every single match
 
Having often berated him in the past; I must admit that I am now starting to see a completely different side to Ando and I have really warmed to him. He has been extremely impressive this season, for the most part.
 
Here is a thought.

Play Ando for 70 mins, and put Scholes for him in the last 20. Gets the best out of both of them and arguably the team too. Of course it depends on the game, but as a general rule of thumb it's not a bad idea.
 
Good to see him getting a start and doing well. What he adds to the team is something far different to what our other midfielders do. Hopefully he can get a run of starts now. I'd take 70minutes from him each game. We have players like Scholes who can come on in the last 20 minutes any way. Or if we are comfortable someone like Powell can be thrown on for a bit of experience
 
wonnie said:
Here is a thought.

Play Ando for 70 mins, and put Scholes for him in the last 20. Gets the best out of both of them and arguably the team too. Of course it depends on the game, but as a general rule of thumb it's not a bad idea.
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Agree. Scholes is very good when we're applying the pressure, camped in the opposition's box and need someone to switch the ball out wide to the wingers. Let Anderson do his thing and get Scholes on for the final 15 to 20 minutes, if we really need him.

Anderson can plqy against the teams who have runners in midfield and Scholes can plqy against the 10 men behind the ball teams. Of course Scholes can start against home games against opposition who camp in their box right from the start (forget about the QPR game), giving Anderson some rest.
 
He's playing with so much more confidence than in recent times. Keep it up lad !
 
He only has three different movement speeds doesn't he? Walking, jogging and full sprint.
No wonder he's getting tired by the end of the game when he always chooses the third option.
 
I still don't think you can pick a central mid that basically takes away one of your subs every week. If he was a superstar, maybe, but he has a long way to go to earn those sorts of liberties.

If, as is suggested above, it's all down to the fact that no one could last the 90 minutes playing the way he does - which I don't agree with at all - then it's down to him to do what Rooney has done and cut out some of the needless chasing around for the overall benefit of his game.

But in reality he just needs to work on his fitness so that he can last out the game.
 
There are a lot of excuses as to why he can't finish games, but it really does boil down to him just not being fit enough.

At least he doesn't look fat anymore though.
 
Brophs said:
I still don't think you can pick a central mid that basically takes away one of your subs every week. If he was a superstar, maybe, but he has a long way to go to earn those sorts of liberties.

If, as is suggested above, it's all down to the fact that no one could last the 90 minutes playing the way he does - which I don't agree with at all - then it's down to him to do what Rooney has done and cut out some of the needless chasing around for the overall benefit of his game.

But in reality he just needs to work on his fitness so that he can last out the game.
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I would agree a lot more with the point I bolded if the players keeping him on the bench were actually performing. I don't think they are so for me he should be the first midfielder on the team sheet at the moment (that would probably build up his fitness too).
 
Maagge said:
I would agree a lot more with the point I bolded if the players keeping him on the bench were actually performing. I don't think they are so for me he should be the first midfielder on the team sheet at the moment (that would probably build up his fitness too).
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Yeah, as I mentioned last night, I think he deserves to start the next one after tonight, I just meant that I don't see it as sustainable to have a guy who is supposed to be one of your top midfielders calling the bench to sub him with 15 minutes to go every week. Even thinking about how often we win a game/rescue something from there shows that we need everyone on it at that stage of the game.

But like you, I'm at the point now where I think he probably should get a lot of games (a run of games might not be practical if we're managing his appearances with injuries in mind) to see if it brings his fitness along. If not I don't see him being any more than a squad player for us in the long term.
 
Brophs said:
Yeah, as I mentioned last night, I think he deserves to start the next one after tonight, I just meant that I don't see it as sustainable to have a guy who is supposed to be one of your top midfielders calling the bench to sub him with 15 minutes to go every week. Even thinking about how often we win a game/rescue something from there shows that we need everyone on it at that stage of the game.

But like you, I'm at the point now where I think he probably should get a lot of games (a run of games might not be practical if we're managing his appearances with injuries in mind) to see if it brings his fitness along. If not I don't see him being any more than a squad player for us in the long term.
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Maybe we wouldn't have to make a comeback time and time again if we had actually fielded the players on form from the start? Obviously this is hypothetical as we can't possibly tell what the outcome would've been.

I do appreciate our rotation policy, sometimes I just wonder if we do it a bit too much.
 
Maagge said:
Maybe we wouldn't have to make a comeback time and time again if we had actually fielded the players on form from the start? Obviously this is hypothetical as we can't possibly tell what the outcome would've been.

I do appreciate our rotation policy, sometimes I just wonder if we do it a bit too much.
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Yeah, well this season that has certainly been the case. But we've always done it. Sometimes you're just not playing well and one of our players shows that little bit of desire and quality to do something near the end of the game. Quite often we've had our 'best' team out and it still doesn't happen for us.
 
Cina said:
There are a lot of excuses as to why he can't finish games, but it really does boil down to him just not being fit enough.

At least he doesn't look fat anymore though.
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Agree, the notion that playing style prevents him from playing a full 90mins is silly, I can't recollect it ever being used as an excuse for a United player before. Pointing out Ozil or VDV isn't a justification, they're not fit enough either.

Much better from him though,I want to see him against some top opposition next.
 
From football 365 winners and losers

Anderson
Although Anderson was finally awarded his second Premier League start of the season, the Brazilian's qualities would be utilised better alongside Michael Carrick at the base of midfield in the 4-2-3-1 formation Sir Alex Ferguson has normally preferred this season. The 24-year-old still impressed against West Ham - despite the manager switching to a 4-3-3 - and he should be in line for another start at Reading on Saturday.

As I said on Monday, United's midfield lacked drive against QPR until Anderson's introduction and he provided similar vigour on Wednesday, demonstrating his skill with a typical burst and sharp pass to Wayne Rooney that almost resulted in a second goal. Only Carrick had more touches than Anderson and the Brazilian also made more tackles than any other midfielder on the pitch, as well as completing the most dribbles. It's time for Ferguson to trust him.
 
Needs to improve his stamina.
 
MagnificentDuke said:
From football 365 winners and losers

Anderson
Although Anderson was finally awarded his second Premier League start of the season, the Brazilian's qualities would be utilised better alongside Michael Carrick at the base of midfield in the 4-2-3-1 formation Sir Alex Ferguson has normally preferred this season. The 24-year-old still impressed against West Ham - despite the manager switching to a 4-3-3 - and he should be in line for another start at Reading on Saturday.

As I said on Monday, United's midfield lacked drive against QPR until Anderson's introduction and he provided similar vigour on Wednesday, demonstrating his skill with a typical burst and sharp pass to Wayne Rooney that almost resulted in a second goal. Only Carrick had more touches than Anderson and the Brazilian also made more tackles than any other midfielder on the pitch, as well as completing the most dribbles. It's time for Ferguson to trust him.
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I think he's much better in a three man midfield. It frees him up to do what he does best. Plus at the end of the day it only means leaving out one winger.
 
Exciting performance in the first half, the next phase for Anderson is learning how to measure out his bursts with the ball or getting into the kind of condition that sees him being able to maintain it for 90 minutes.
 
I think Anderson did very well last night, his energy and willingness to get on the ball was evident. The only matter which he will no doubt acknowledge is his finishing ability.
 
I think part of why he runs out of steam is every time he gets on the pitch he's desperate to prove how fast he'll run, and how hard he'll work.

From a technical point of view, nobody can sprint for half a minute without a a couple of minutes rest afterwards - and you can't expect to do it over and over again for 90 minutes, that's not how bodies work. After even a short sprint, you need to pause/walk/slow jog for a few seconds (even if the crowd hates you for it) which is a big thing to ask young players and players with something to prove.

Anyway the more he plays, the better he'll get at it. I hope.
 
jojojo said:
I think part of why he runs out of steam is every time he gets on the pitch he's desperate to prove how fast he'll run, and how hard he'll work.

From a technical point of view, nobody can sprint for half a minute without a a couple of minutes rest afterwards - and you can't expect to do it over and over again for 90 minutes, that's not how bodies work. After even a short sprint, you need to pause/walk/slow jog for a few seconds (even if the crowd hates you for it) which is a big thing to ask young players and players with something to prove.

Anyway the more he plays, the better he'll get at it. I hope.
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This. Which adds to the notion with more game time, he will last longer.
 
Although the majority of us agree he was good the other night, here's what the Guardian have to say about him...

Manchester United are at Reading in Saturday's late game after Sir Alex Ferguson's team scraped an unconvincing 1-0 win over West Ham on Wednesday. This featured Anderson being given the start he was promised by the Scot after a match-changing cameo in last Saturday's 3-1 win over Queens Park Rangers when entering as a substitute. Against West Ham the Brazilian was back to his more recognisable muted self. Expect him to be back on the bench at the Madejski Stadium.
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What bell writes this stuff?
 
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