So that's Chelsea and City who have got their appointments sorted in a no nonsense way, while we continue to dither and give chances to LVG. Ridiculous.
Antonio Conte | Chelsea Manager 16/17
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The manager is ultimately an employee and public confrontation with the owners would end up in misery for both the club and himself. SAF was no pussy but he had never criticized the owners (until they sold their shares) and there were times when he actually protected them. Ancelotti had worked under three of the toughest employers in football which are AC Milan, Real and Chelsea. I bet he knows a thing or two how to handle difficult owners
I agree with your assessment about your players though. Hence why I strongly believe that Conte (whose an old fashioned disciplinarian in typical Serie A style) will end up backstabbed as Maureen did
You could easily look at it in another way regarding Man City, actually. Their 'no nonsense' approach towards announcing Guardiola so early on has clearly had a detrimental effect on Pellegrini and the team this season. If (and it's a big if) we're trying to do the opposite - not make announcements until the season is over for the current manager - then that's a far better approach.
Of course, we might not be, cause we seem to be run by gobsihtes, but ... have faith?
I know it and I was talking about the team not the roster or the transfers.
He got sacked at two of them after they interfered and destroyed his side. Do you reckon Ferguson would've stood for that shit? Not likely.
Mourinho was given almost all control of the first team affairs at Chelsea and was given most control at Real Madrid. He was the reason for his demise at both teams as he self destructed under his own, very short term regiment.
He is unproven ling term and every chance he got at it he failed miserably and his effect on a club short term (In terms of trophy haul) has slowly become worse and worse. Notice a trend between Mourinho's trophy haul at Chelsea/Porto/Inter and Real/Chelsea2? The latter is significantly worse. I honestly don lt rate him as a manager any more.
Keep Hazard and get him fit and firing again, sign two top midfielders, sign two defenders, and trim the fat a bit and I think we can challenge (certainly not win) for the league next season.
If, however, the club continue to go over the head of the manager and sign a bunch of random nobodies and force him to carry on with the same slackers and players that are simply not good enough we'll be fighting with West Ham and Liverpool for 5th.
If, however, the club continue to go over the head of the manager and sign a bunch of random nobodies and force him to carry on with the same slackers and players that are simply not good enough we'll be fighting with West Ham and Liverpool for 5th.
Very good appointment. He did an excellent job at Chelsea. Their style of play was very impressive for me, as were the signings they made to reach the success they did. I expect Chelsea, like City, to be far stronger next season.
You are absolutely right. It is always difficult to explain to a British fan in general the difference between a coach and a manager. Being a manager in Britain is almost synonymous with having an eye for a good transfer and being a good judge of talent. That is a vital part of the job in addition of motivating the team, setting up the team and so on. That is simply not the case elsewhere where the job is to coach and work on drills and combinations and develop a coherent unit. It is probably a factor as to why foreign managers are much better tactically as they are forced to do with what they have whereas British managers always look for the transfer window to solve their problems. But it also means that the set of criteria needed to succeed are different which is why the jury is firmly out on Conte.
Why not?
The club forced Mourinho to sign a bunch of random nobodies last season? You signed Pedro.
The club stuck with the same same slackers? You mean the guys who were champions the previous year.
He loves the 3-5-2/5-3-2 doesnt he? Cant wait to see someone else have a go with that formation after Van Gaal's debacle...
If you think that any manager would have stayed for 20 years+ at a club without facing plenty of shit then you're mistaken. SAF was reduced in asking Graham to fax him his contract at Arsenal so that he can show it to Edwards and get a payrise. There were times when we couldn't even afford buying players from Fiorentina because their the salary cap was higher then what we could offer. We're not talking about Real, AC Milan or Bayern here but Fiorentina, ie the Tottenham of Italy. Isn't that humiliating enough?
And I don't really believe that. None of those clubs would give total control over the first team affairs to a manager. Its not in their club culture to do so.
As said
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Im not 100% against the idea of LVG staying for his 3rd year if he gets top 4
And would prefer that than Mourinho
Perhaps in a years time Poch might be easier to get or maybe another solution will appear in a years time
I'm torn between this and the risk of Giggs getting it after LVG. I'm just not keen on Mourinho. No matter how hard I try to convince myself that it makes sense.
Also think this idea that Mourinho is guaranteed to get us firing again is rubbish.
I agree, this is very possible, and the non-denial of the never-ending Mourinho rumour is what a lot of fans are clinging to, as well as Mourinho himself saying he wants to return in the new season adnd not mid-season. Louis being Louis, I don't think he'd just sit back and accept it the way that it appears Pellegrini is doing.
Also, there's no harm in Chelsea announcing it, as their current manager is simply an interim manager anyway. Conte isn't ousting anyone out of a job lile Pep is the Pellegrini.
Why won't we win the league? Can't see us winning it up against a Pep with unlimited funds or a Mou at United with unlimited funds in the first season under a meager that plays a completely different style than our players are used to.
True, we did sign Pedro. He's been the only decent signing we made. The club went over José's head and sold Petr Cech to bloody Arsenal after he publicly said he didn't want that to happen. The club signed a defender from a small French side in Djilobodji who even the manager had never heard of. The club singed a random Championship defender who none of us had heard of in Michael Hector who will never play once in a Chelsea shirt. They signed Falcao who I forgot was even in the squad and then signed Pato who just made his first appearance 3 months after signing.
What I'm saying is that if the board continues to be the talent evaluators the ones who decide which players to sign rather than the manager we'll be in trouble.
Mourinho has come out and said himself since he was sacked that the club essentially told him to "do it again with the same squad." Like I said, if the same happens here and he has to persist with average players like Cahill we won't make the necessary improvement.
Not from internal though. Ferguson always had the control over first team affairs that Ancelotti never got because he wasn't a pushover.
Its true. Mourinho sold our best player (Mata), identified and brought in Fabregas/Costa, was allowed to buy Willian despite the amount of AM's we already had, bought a plethora of RW's and sold them after they failed (Schurrle, Salah, Cuadrado) was allowed to get rid of bright young players because they didn't fit his plans (De Bruyne, Lukaku) and promoted an out of favour Terry hack into the fold. These were all Mourinho actions and there was no complaint from him when we did that. The one time we failed to deliver for him (Last seasons train wreck of a summer) and he takes us to relegation. In fact, the only time he was overruled was over Cech, where he refused to sell him to Arsenal and Abramovich allowed him to leave.
That also reminds me, he brought in Falcao himself and also refused to sell Ba to Arsenal, even though they offered more money. He had complete control.
Last summer was less of us refusing to buy his targets but more of us not being able to buy them. Stones we were rejected £45m for him, Griezmann rejected our advance, Koke's buyout clause of €60m was met and he refused to enter negotiation with us. We even went in for Marquinhos and Martial at the last. Sure, our business strategy was poor and we ended up with our last resorts (Papy and Pedro) but it wasn't like we didn't try to sign the players Mourinho wanted, we tried and failed. His meltdown is on him at Chelsea.
Why would you want this utter tripe to continue? Even if he gets top 4, that was the bare minimum fecking last year! He won't get it anyway. It's a disgrace he is still anywhere near that dugout after what has been served up this year with millions and millions spent.
I don't really rate him, but I don't rate Mancini and he still won in England.
I think he'll do okayish then quickly be forgotten.
I think he'll do okayish then quickly be forgotten.
City - guardiola = confirmed
chelsea - conte = confirmed
Liverpool - klopp = confirmed/already here
United -
chelsea - conte = confirmed
Liverpool - klopp = confirmed/already here
United -
United always do things the hard wayCity - guardiola = confirmed
chelsea - conte = confirmed
Liverpool - klopp = confirmed/already here
United -
LVG is your manager. There is no ? about it at the moment. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its under question.City - guardiola = confirmed
chelsea - conte = confirmed
Liverpool - klopp = confirmed/already here
United -
He means for next season. His position is definitely under question.
Agree. The Guardiola announcement has had negative impact on City's players, at least that's what it seems. For Chelsea, Hiddink being there only till end of season was clear from start and on top of that they have nothing to play for now, unless they really want to push to get into Europa places. So, we not announcing new manager, if already decided, till we are chasing meaningful objectives, is not a bad approach. Imagine the state of media if Mourinho is announced United manager right now. They will not talk of anything else and it will negatively impact Van Gaal as well as players.
Not a bad appointment for Chelsea.
Though I wonder if he will have similar struggles that LVG has had, as we all know the Prem is a tactically inept league - particularly compared to the Serie A.
Also, winning titles with the absolutely stacked Juve teams he had isn't anything amazing.
Though I wonder if he will have similar struggles that LVG has had, as we all know the Prem is a tactically inept league - particularly compared to the Serie A.
Also, winning titles with the absolutely stacked Juve teams he had isn't anything amazing.
Going a season unbeaten, going on a 42 game unbeaten run (second best ever I believe) and breaking the record points total as well as winning the league 3 times in a row. Pretty impressive considering he inherited a team that came 7th the season before.
I don't know enough about him to make informed opinions but his record speaks for itself.
SAF tends to be pretty private of the internal workings of the club so you can't really confirm or deny what's went on especially with the current owners. However having to beg for a pay increase or not being able to sign the players you need can be considered as messing up with the internal dealings of the club especially for a club who was expected to win nearly year in year out.
I believe that this was the worse year to stop financially support the manager . Chelsea's had an ageing squad and their players are hardly renowned for their loyalty. By bidding for Stones (defense), Koke (midfield), Martial (forward line) and co, Mou has crossed the Rubicon ie he showed his current side that he believed that this squad needed change. That something the mercenaries wouldn't really like to see.
I am not saying Mou didn't had his share of mistakes. If I was Mou I would have sent those mercenaries to the bench and play the youths, same as SAF did when he had shown Ince/Kanchelskis/Hughes the door. There again there's only one SAF and only one class of 92 (ie kids who were good enough to step up and be counted). Surely you have to admit that you did left him hang out to dry by forcing him to rely on the present side especially after he wanted to bring necessary changes to the team.
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Mourinho is still the closest thing you get to a guarantee of winning. It's not even a year since he won the league for a laugh, with a zero bench strength and several poor players in the starting lineup.
Conte is just poor man's Mourinho. If United get him, the likes of Conte and klopp will never come close to winning the PL. I can see the title hopping across Manchester year to year.
Agree with you on Ancelotti though, Does not come close to the league of Jose, guardiola and Simeone.
Why are you still so angry at the players though?
I told you, we tried to sign his targets, they weren't available to us. Our problem was finding adequate backups to those initial targets. We failed miserably there and it cost us. Mourinho failed himself as you said by trusting the old over the younger players, even when the older players were failing him.
I do believe, his very short term and short sighted squad building and development was the main cause of our demise this season. He created a culture at the club that last season was the be all and end all. He ignored developing young players and refused to rotate his squad to win the league. This meant that he couldn't motivate the side coming into this season and his solution was to spend north of £100m on replacements. Instead, he should've brought in the fixes from within our club, from the young players there and out on loan. He didn't and we failed because of it as the squad had no competition.
That's not to justify the players club either. The club failed him by not bringing in top quality players and the summer was a complete train wreck. The players were pussied and wanted out rather then fight for the club, for that they deserve blame. But Mourinho was a big reason for the mess we are in now.
Koeman and Bilic are both better than FSW.
If he was short term than he would have left in summer (or settled with the present side and left next season). His reputation would have remained intact, Chelsea would succumb in chaos and he would be managing a top side while you would be struggling to make it to mid table. The very fact that he remained and he wanted to bring in change show intent to build for long term. If Chelsea brought in the players Mou asked for then they would have easily walked with the league.
Don't take me wrong, I do agree with you that he should improve his record with the youth academy which is appalling at best. Having said that, by not backing him financially you basically threw him under the bus. Stones (Defense), Griezmann (flanks), Koke (midfield) and Martial (striker), jeez he basically gave a vote of non confidence to the entire team. No manager would recover after that.
If Everton were smart they'd sack that total fraud Martinez and try to steal Koeman. He's extremely underrated.
@Gol123
So your gut feeling was spot on, congrats. This will be an interesting next EPL season with Conte and Pep (and Giggs as new manager) and their new teams around.
So your gut feeling was spot on, congrats. This will be an interesting next EPL season with Conte and Pep (and Giggs as new manager
) and their new teams around.Spanish breden rodgers.
Worse. At least Brentan's Liverpool could do one thing well and that was attacking. This Everton side look totally blunt most of the time and are laughable at the back to boot.
Without Suarez Dippers were totally blunt too under Rodgers. It wasn't Rodgers it was the form of Suarez for those 6 months.
Chelsea will jettison the bad eggs with him in charge.
Good manager but I'm not sure he'll adapt so well in the EPL. We'll find out soon enough though.
Where did you get this from? They haven't been 'blunt' most of the time. Everton have 51 goals, and the premier leagues top scorers (Tottenham) have 57 goals. And looking at the individual player numbers;
- Lukaku has 18 Goals
- Barkley has 8 goals and 7 Assists from Midfield.
- Dealofau has 5 Goals and assist from Wide.
City's performances ever since Guardiola was announced is enough evidence to show that perhaps we are taking the right approach.
Indeed.
I will also add Sturridge.
Together those 2 players scored 52 league goals. That is insane.
If you lose a duo who scored 52 goals in a season (Suarez sold, Sturridge injured), then it is no surprise that LFC became a shadow of their former selves, in the space of 1 Summer.