Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

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kietotheworld said:
Chelsea don't really use wingers this season.
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Don't really see your point.

Joe Cole and Malouda are two players I'd call wingers, and they're not particularly good crossers. Most wingers in this league aren't.

Lennon's become a better crosser. Krancjar is a good crosser from dead balls but from open play isn't as productive as Valencia IMO. Milner and Young are both better I'd say. Arteta too.

But then each of these teams have a target man that starts regularly, they need wingers who constantly whip the ball in. We don't look for that in a winger as the main requirement.

I'd say he's a better crosser than about 90% (or assuming every team besides Chelsea plays two wingers that'd be 36) first choice wingers in this league. Maybe slightly less, but I'd say he's not a half bad crosser in general.
 
Brwned said:
Think he's a better crosser than any of our other wingers, better crosser than any of Chelsea's wingers, better crosser than any of Arsenal's wingers, and better crosser than any of Liverpool's wingers.

There aren't a lot of wingers that are particularly productive with their crossing these days, especially in this league.

Joe Cole, Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott, Malouda, Benayoun - all good wingers but not great crossers.

Don't think he's a particularly productive crosser but then I don't think many are, so a bit of context helps.
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The only winger you've listed here is Malouda and possibly Walcott. Joe Cole, Arshavin, Nasri and Benayoun aren't wingers.

Anyway, Valencia is a decent crosser but I don't think he's even the best at United. On his day, Nani is a superb crosser of the ball, although his decision making is woefully poor so that essentially lessens his effectiveness. Valencia is probably on a similar level to Giggs in terms of crossing. I think Neville and Rafael are better crossers if we're including fullbacks as well.

With all that said, I do think Valencia is our best winger, and indeed one of the best true out and out wingers in the League. He's got explosive pace, the ability to beat a man, and a wicked shot. His only real problem is his complete lack of a left foot which means he constantly checks back onto his right and has to use the outside of his boot when it would be far more efficient to use his left.
 
johnmufc said:
The only winger you've listed here is Malouda and possibly Walcott. Joe Cole, Arshavin, Nasri and Benayoun aren't wingers.

Anyway, Valencia is a decent crosser but I don't think he's even the best at United. On his day, Nani is a superb crosser of the ball, although his decision making is woefully poor so that essentially lessens his effectiveness. Valencia is probably on a similar level to Giggs in terms of crossing. I think Neville and Rafael are better crossers if we're including fullbacks as well.

With all that said, I do think Valencia is our best winger, and indeed one of the best true out and out wingers in the League. He's got explosive pace, the ability to beat a man, and a wicked shot. His only real problem is his complete lack of a left foot which means he constantly checks back onto his right and has to use the outside of his boot when it would be far more efficient to use his left.
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They play on the wing, they're wingers. No point calling them attacking midfielders when clearly their primary position over the past few years has been on the wing. I like it simple. If you want me to be really specific, he's one of the best crossers in the league that plays on the wing consistently.

Nani has more variety with his crosses, and often more quality, but he's a lot less productive with his crossing in general. Valencia has a real asset in being able to get the ball in consistently despite being in tight situations. Nani struggles with that. All part of the technique of crossing, I'd say. Valencia simply puts in more dangerous crosses than Nani in a typical game, IMO.
 
Brwned said:
Think he's a better crosser than any of our other wingers, better crosser than any of Chelsea's wingers, better crosser than any of Arsenal's wingers, and better crosser than any of Liverpool's wingers.

There aren't a lot of wingers that are particularly productive with their crossing these days, especially in this league.

Joe Cole, Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott, Malouda, Benayoun - all good wingers but not great crossers.

Don't think he's a particularly productive crosser but then I don't think many are, so a bit of context helps.
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Arshavin's crossing is good. Obviously playing on the left means he tends to have to use his left foot to deliver, but he's pretty good at that too.

Aside from Walcott and maybe Malouda, the rest of the players you mentioned are all more incisive passers than Valencia. They may not be great crossers but thats because they cut through with passes.

Valencia on the other hand isnt that good at either. Although his speed and dribbling can get him in good positions to find 'easier' passes to set up a team mate.

Oh and he's definately not as good a crosser as Giggs. And when Nani gets his cross right (which may not be often enough for our liking but tends to be about once a game) he's capable of the very finest of crosses bar Beckham's.
 
Brwned said:
Think he's a better crosser than any of our other wingers, better crosser than any of Chelsea's wingers, better crosser than any of Arsenal's wingers, and better crosser than any of Liverpool's wingers.

There aren't a lot of wingers that are particularly productive with their crossing these days, especially in this league.

Joe Cole, Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott, Malouda, Benayoun - all good wingers but not great crossers.

Don't think he's a particularly productive crosser but then I don't think many are, so a bit of context helps.
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Unless you count Ryan Giggs as a winger, I'd probably agree with that.

However saying that, I think Valencia is more a traditional winger in the sense he is up and down the line so his crossing needs to be better than others because they have more to their game IMO.
 
the wingers are meant as an alternative off the bench- the ambition is to rely on the fullbacks and a 3-3 SAF's just looking for the right personnel to make it work...
 
He's a great player, he has shown he's a great player, Fergie knows he's a great player, you all critics are idiots.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Hes not really a world class player or crosser.
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Think you'll find very few world class crossers.

And yes, he's not a world class winger nor was he expected to be.

So really that was just a bit of a pointless criticism. As usual.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Im pretty sure a lot more of Coles crosses have ended in goals compared to Valencias
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I'm entirely sure that in the past couple of years Valencia's set up more goals from crosses than Cole.

It's only this season Cole's become a decent crosser, Valencia's been one for a while now.
 
Valencia has one move. Cut down the by-line and then when he runs out of space, he turns completely side ways as he has no left foot or can't turn around quickly to beat his man. So he stops. Looks, and then goes to the right back.

Very one-dimensional in my view.
 
Brwned said:
I'm entirely sure that in the past couple of years Valencia's set up more goals from crosses than Cole.

It's only this season Cole's become a decent crosser, Valencia's been one for a while now.
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I still think that Valencias crossing isnt as good as people sometimes make out, a lot are often overhit or played slightly behind our attackers which lead me to my eariler point that Giggs/Nani are better crossers of the ball - and then suggesting Coles was better. Maybe over the course of say the last 3 seasons Valencia has been more better (which i do doubt) but this season he hasnt been anything really special with his crossing

Thats not to say he hasnt been effective for us as he has in other areas
 
amir51 said:
Valencia has one move. Cut down the by-line and then when he runs out of space, he turns completely side ways as he has no left foot or can't turn around quickly to beat his man. So he stops. Looks, and then goes to the right back.

Very one-dimensional in my view.
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TBH its not that bad when hes playing in a 442 but when you are in a front 3 you cannot rely on other players supporting you on the same wing which is why you have to do something with either your left foot or something unpredictable to get you past a player - which Valencia has yet to do (and not just his party piece)
 
Brwned said:
I'm entirely sure that in the past couple of years Valencia's set up more goals from crosses than Cole.

It's only this season Cole's become a decent crosser, Valencia's been one for a while now.
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I think it's just the likes of Rooney and Owen aren't going to profit as much from them as say Rodagella and Heskey. Maybe Welbeck should get a run out against the weak sides like Hull.
 
It doesn't really matter if anyone on our team can cross or not. We couldn't win an offensive header if our lives depended on it.
 
Ace said:
It doesn't really matter if anyone on our team can cross or not. We couldn't win an offensive header if our lives depended on it.
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I was thinking about this today and while we can say no one in our team can head the ball very well if the cross is good enough to drop between 2 defenders or in a good area to attack the ball then i am sure strikers of Berbatov and Rooneys quality would be able to lach on to them - right now all that happens is the balls coming into the box dont really get past their first man or are over hit
 
Ace said:
It doesn't really matter if anyone on our team can cross or not. We couldn't win an offensive header if our lives depended on it.
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Rooney has scored a couple this season. Owen too.

A quality delivery gives us that chance even with smaller strikers. Dont think Valencia set any of them up though...
 
OneUnited24 said:
I was thinking about this today and while we can say no one in our team can head the ball very well if the cross is good enough to drop between 2 defenders or in a good area to attack the ball then i am sure strikers of Berbatov and Rooneys quality would be able to lach on to them - right now all that happens is the balls coming into the box dont really get past their first man or are over hit
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Even then, both Berbatov and Rooney spend too much time outside the box to make such a big fuss about not having inch perfect crossing at every opportunity.

Our squad has changed since the days of Ruud, Saha, and Ronaldo.
 
i'm surprised at the number of games he has started. he does linger on the ball to long at times and his crossing invariably picks out the opposition. he needs to work on his decision making. with time i think this will come, he seems to have been missing in the last few games over and above the goal he got against wolves
 
OneUnited24 said:
I still think that Valencias crossing isnt as good as people sometimes make out, a lot are often overhit or played slightly behind our attackers which lead me to my eariler point that Giggs/Nani are better crossers of the ball - and then suggesting Coles was better. Maybe over the course of say the last 3 seasons Valencia has been more better (which i do doubt) but this season he hasnt been anything really special with his crossing

Thats not to say he hasnt been effective for us as he has in other areas
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Who has?

Nathan said:
i'm surprised at the number of games he has started. he does linger on the ball to long at times and his crossing invariably picks out the opposition. he needs to work on his decision making. with time i think this will come, he seems to have been missing in the last few games over and above the goal he got against wolves
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Odd, I thought his ability to keep possession was one of his bigger assets.

Ekeke said:
Rooney has scored a couple this season. Owen too.

A quality delivery gives us that chance even with smaller strikers. Dont think Valencia set any of them up though...
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Pretty sure he put in an excellent cross for Rooney against Wigan.
 
This thread is hilarious, our new signing has been settling in very well and has already scored as many goals this season as in his last three seasons with his previous club, but he has a few quiet games and out come the spastics with their criticisms.
 
R_Nick said:
This thread is hilarious, our new signing has been settling in very well and has already scored as many goals this season as in his last three seasons with his previous club, but he has a few quiet games and out come the spastics with their criticisms.
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His job is to create goals too. While his scoring record has been good so far (although he's profited from luck on occasion) he hasnt created much, despite having shit loads of attempts at doing so. He's found that part tough so far.
 
Ekeke said:
His job is to create goals too. While his scoring record has been good so far (although he's profited from luck on occasion) he hasnt created much, despite having shit loads of attempts at doing so. He's found that part tough so far.
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Trust you to throw that in there and ignore him being unlucky in hitting the bar twice with two great shots against Liverpool and CSKA(?).
 
Brwned said:
Trust you to throw that in there and ignore him being unlucky in hitting the bar twice with two great shots against Liverpool and CSKA(?).
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2 deflected goals, at least one of which was going wide against CSKA. Hence my reservation at proclaiming him a dependable goalscorer just yet.

Trust you to try and glaze over it, and the point that despite being the best crosser at the club in your opinion he hasnt created much this season. Having had so many attempts to cross the ball this season that must be a surprise to you eh
 
I don't think i've ever witnessed a new signing begin so well and at the same time get so much stick. It's a bit bizarre actually, it shows just how spoilt our fans really are.
 
Ekeke said:
2 deflected goals, at least one of which was going wide against CSKA. Hence my reservation at proclaiming him a dependable goalscorer just yet.

Trust you to try and glaze over it, and the point that despite being the best crosser at the club in your opinion he hasnt created much this season. Having had so many attempts to cross the ball this season that must be a surprise to you eh
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Not really no, seeing as he's a new signing. Giggs, a player who's been the most productive crosser this season, has a slightly better understanding with the rest of his team mates which helps.

R.Nilsson7 said:
I don't think i've ever witnessed a new signing begin so well and at the same time get so much stick. It's a bit bizarre actually, it shows just how spoilt our fans really are.
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Ironic that you'd be the one to point that out.
 
R.Nilsson7 said:
I don't think i've ever witnessed a new signing begin so well and at the same time get so much stick. It's a bit bizarre actually, it shows just how spoilt our fans really are.
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It's basically people crying that he's not Ronaldo, which was always bound to happen.
 
That people being overly critical of O'Shea are just as spolit as people being overly critical of Valencia, if not more so.
 
Brwned said:
That people being overly critical of O'Shea are just as spolit as people being overly critical of Valencia, if not more so.
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Yet they want O'Shea back rather sooner than later.

So far, Valencia has done well in my book. For me, the most important thing is that you can see him improving, eventhough he's at the club for only 4 months. Valencia is definately not the reason why we are not hitting top form right now
 
Brwned said:
Think you'll find very few world class crossers.

And yes, he's not a world class winger nor was he expected to be.

So really that was just a bit of a pointless criticism. As usual.
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How is fact a criticism?

Did I criticise him of being shit?
 
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