Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

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The contribution this man offers all-round is absolutely absurd. I still remember quite vividly Steve Bruce's interview when he signed for us. There wasn't a single negative comment; likewise, he just waxed lyrical about him for the whole interview, singing his praises in regards to how much of a fantastic player and person he is.

We are incredibly lucky to have him. I must admit, given Nani's form throughout the entirety of this season, I didn't expect or want Valencia to get that right wing spot ahead of Nani, but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever now that he should be starting whenever fit. It is Nani that must be shuffled round the pitch in order to accomodate Valencia, and that is in no small part down to Valencia's incredible defensive capabilities. I mean, we know he's a fantastic crosser and that he has superb pace, but has anyone actually ever seen this guy beaten one-on-one?

Not only that, but his mere presence on the right makes it almost impossible for the opposition to counter down that wing.
 
I honestly think that had Valencia been fit all season long, we would have won the league title weeks ago. What this guy offers is insane, for the money he cost, he really has added so much to our team. He doesn't bother with tricks, he just gets the ball, carries it forward and gives it straight to one of our strikers, he is one of the most selfless attacking players I have seen. Everything he does is for the team and I love it.

There is one thing knowing that a player is one dimentional, and there is another thing stopping him!
 
I tend to agree with your opening assertion, however there are always injuries to deal with for every team, and if Arsenal had a fit RVP all season, for example, they could have also been more dangerous. It's impossible to predict the difference of having injured players available all season.
 
R_Nick said:
I tend to agree with your opening assertion, however there are always injuries to deal with for every team, and if Arsenal had a fit RVP all season, for example, they could have also been more dangerous. It's impossible to predict the difference of having injured players available all season.
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In fairness RVP not being available for the majority of the season is pretty much standard so Arsenal really cant use that line anymore.

Isnt this the most games he has ever played in a season? 20 or something?

Made of glass.
 
Jonno said:
I honestly think that had Valencia been fit all season long, we would have won the league title weeks ago. What this guy offers is insane, for the money he cost, he really has added so much to our team. He doesn't bother with tricks, he just gets the ball, carries it forward and gives it straight to one of our strikers, he is one of the most selfless attacking players I have seen. Everything he does is for the team and I love it.

There is one thing knowing that a player is one dimentional, and there is another thing stopping him!
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There's also a possibility that had he been fit, he'll have ran out of gas by now and we wouldn't be looking towards the finals with such high hopes! :lol:
 
Great team player.Must be wonderful to have someone like him around.You just know to head for the near/far post, the ball's going to arrive
 
cj4_elmo said:
There's also a possibility that had he been fit, he'll have ran out of gas by now and we wouldn't be looking towards the finals with such high hopes! :lol:
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There is that, I felt last season at the same stage he'd blown up like a great racehorse that had one to many races. It just seemed to coincide with Rooney's injury, Berbatov's loss of form in general.

Oh well, if we don't suffer the disappointments we can't celebrate the success in the same way
 
R_Nick said:
I tend to agree with your opening assertion, however there are always injuries to deal with for every team, and if Arsenal had a fit RVP all season, for example, they could have also been more dangerous. It's impossible to predict the difference of having injured players available all season.
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Course you can say that about any team, I suppose I am more rubbing my hands at the thought that 'touch wood' next season we will be able to enjoy a full season from 'Tony.
 
Over on RAWK the scousers think he's the best winger in the league. That's some praise when it comes from a biased, bitter, United hating scouser.
 
KingEric7 said:
Not only that, but his mere presence on the right makes it almost impossible for the opposition to counter down that wing.
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Even further than that, his pressing high up the pitch is so effective that it not only slows down their build-up play but will force them to make mistakes and give us chances, as happened various times since his comeback. He's really excellent defensively.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
For all his goals/assists I think the most notable improvement in Nani's game this season has been his defending. Learning from Tony in training?
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This myth that Nani 'doesnt track back or work hard' is bollocks. I wouldnt say his defending has improved. Its just getting more recognition because he's having a good season. Lets not forget he started for us on the wing against Barca in 08...
 
Brwned said:
Even further than that, his pressing high up the pitch is so effective that it not only slows down their build-up play but will force them to make mistakes and give us chances, as happened various times since his comeback. He's really excellent defensively.
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Like the chance he created late on against Chelsea where he hounded down and slid in on someone which put Hernandez through but the pass to Rooney was slightly behind. I think Alex made a decent block on the line.
 
MacMUFC said:
This myth that Nani 'doesnt track back or work hard' is bollocks. I wouldnt say his defending has improved. Its just getting more recognition because he's having a good season. Lets not forget he started for us on the wing against Barca in 08...
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That "myth" is bollox but it's not exactly widespread, is it? I can't remember the last time anyone on here criticised Nani for not tracking back or not working hard enough.

It is possible to comment on an improvement of a specific aspect of a player's game without being critical of his ability in this regard in the past. At least it should be.

Nani has always put a shift in and done his bit to help out his full-back. I just think he's been more effective, defensively, this season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That "myth" is bollox but it's not exactly widespread, is it? I can't remember the last time anyone on here criticised Nani for not tracking back or not working hard enough.

It is possible to comment on an improvement of a specific aspect of a player's game without being critical of his ability in this regard in the past. At least it should be.

Nani has always put a shift in and done his bit to help out his full-back. I just think he's been more effective, defensively, this season.
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Yeah, fair comment, it used to be far more widespread when he wasnt playing well, although you'll still see the odd bizarre comment criticising his work rate.

Perhaps. Not something i've really noticed to be honest, maybe because i've always been a defender of his ability to get up and down the pitch. I go back to the game against Barca in 08 - Park would've been proud of that performance. I'll admit he used to be defensively naive though. Obviously that was due to a lack of his experience. He doesnt often get caught ball watching anymore.
 
He usually plays in the middle for them and isn't quite as much of a workhorse there.
 
I think Valencia's greatest criticism of being too predictable is futile as a player does not have to have variety to excel at his game. Take tennis for example, Nadal almost always serves to Federer's backhand and even though Federer knows what is coming, he still comes up short most of the time. IMO consistency > variety anyday and that is why Valencia is such an integral part of our team.
 
Yup. Don't know how many times he went past Cashley with a simple flick towards the end line. That's how Messi goes past players every time. Flicks the ball past them at the right moment.
 
75 - Since he joined the club, Man Utd have won 75% of PL games that A.Valencia has started & 58% without him in the starting XI. Threat.
 
Tony V is a real pro. Admirable little chap.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That "myth" is bollox but it's not exactly widespread, is it? I can't remember the last time anyone on here criticised Nani for not tracking back or not working hard enough.

It is possible to comment on an improvement of a specific aspect of a player's game without being critical of his ability in this regard in the past. At least it should be.

Nani has always put a shift in and done his bit to help out his full-back. I just think he's been more effective, defensively, this season.
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a serious question here re Nani and tracking back


I have an impression that his tracking back and defensive perfomance are much better when he plays on the right and somehowe he doesnt offer Evra / LB as much protection when playing on the left.

Just an impression but also a food for tought
 
Nani tracks back, but he's not very good at it. I doubt Nani could've done the job Valencia did against Cole.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That "myth" is bollox but it's not exactly widespread, is it? I can't remember the last time anyone on here criticised Nani for not tracking back or not working hard enough.

It is possible to comment on an improvement of a specific aspect of a player's game without being critical of his ability in this regard in the past. At least it should be.

Nani has always put a shift in and done his bit to help out his full-back. I just think he's been more effective, defensively, this season.
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His biggest problem is the players he's being compared to. If you're not a defensive player and you're being held up against Park and Valencia (and Rooney, when he's out there) of course you'll look a little sub-par. But generally he's quite decent at it.

That said I wouldn't like to see him against Dani Alves in the final. A lot of their threat would come from that side and I think he'd let him go too often for comfort.
 
Lynk said:
Nani tracks back, but he's not very good at it. I doubt Nani could've done the job Valencia did against Cole.
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Horse shit. I doubt thousands of wingers in the world could've done the job Valencia did against Cole and you say that as if its an easy task. I dare you to name me at least 5 right sided players that could. So go on, in your own time...
 
It's not like he can't improve defensively though, he is the youngest of our regular wingers after all. Defensive qualities always come with age, especially for wingers.

Valencia wasn't as good defensively last year. I reckon in his 6 month lay off he was taught a lot of that stuff perhaps.

I can't see Nani being as good as Valencia defensively in the future mind, but very few wingers are. He's clearly getting better at it.
 
cina said:
It's not like he can't improve defensively though, he is the youngest of our regular wingers after all. Defensive qualities always come with age, especially for wingers.

Valencia wasn't as good defensively last year. I reckon in his 6 month lay off he was taught a lot of that stuff perhaps.

I can't see Nani being as good as Valencia defensively in the future mind, but very few wingers are. He's clearly getting better at it.
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Valencia's always been a class defender. In his first season he won more tackles than almost any other United player.

Personally, I'm not too bothered about whether or not Nani matches him defensively (I don't think he will fwiw) so long as maintains and improves upon the productivity he showed, going forwards, in the first half of this season. He's already a better defender than Ronald ever was, if he can even get close to what he offered us in the final third he'll be a hell of a player.
 
MacMUFC said:
Horse shit. I doubt thousands of wingers in the world could've done the job Valencia did against Cole and you say that as if its an easy task. I dare you to name me at least 5 right sided players that could. So go on, in your own time...
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I watch Nani a lot, and positionally when we don't have the ball he is pretty poor in comparison to Valencia and Park, he has a habit of drifting centrally and not closing down well enough. "Not very good at it" is perhaps a tad harsh, he's not in the Ronaldo shit league of team-work, but he's not in the same class as Valencia either.


Edit: Mind you, I rank Valencia is the most complete winger in the world when it comes to both attacking and defensive work. (I don't really count Messi as a winger anymore)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Valencia's always been a class defender. In his first season he won more tackles than almost any other United player.

Personally, I'm not too bothered about whether or not Nani matches him defensively (I don't think he will fwiw) so long as maintains and improves upon the productivity he showed, going forwards, in the first half of this season. He's already a better defender than Ronald ever was, if he can even get close to what he offered us in the final third he'll be a hell of a player.
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Think 'class' overstates is a bit (He's class now), he was very good in winger terms but now he's very good in any terms.
 
Lynk said:
I watch Nani a lot, and positionally when we don't have the ball he is pretty poor in comparison to Valencia and Park, he has a habit of drifting centrally and not closing down well enough. "Not very good at it" is perhaps a tad harsh, he's not in the Ronaldo shit league of team-work, but he's not in the same class as Valencia either.


Edit: Mind you, I rank Valencia is the most complete winger in the world when it comes to both attacking and defensive work. (I don't really count Messi as a winger anymore)
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That's the problem though, people keep saying he's not as good as Valencia, but what top winger is? I can think of very, very few.

Nani is pretty good defensively, the problem is that people keep comparing him to Valencia, which is harsh.

It's like saying Valencia is really one footed because Nani is so much better in that regard, because Nani is one of the most two-footed players around.

Pogue Mahone said:
I honestly think you're imagin
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Typo I presume.

Should it really be debated though? We're both saying he is/was good defensively, I just think he's better now than he was, big deal.
 
cina said:
That's the problem though, people keep saying he's not as good as Valencia, but what top winger is? I can think of very, very few.

Nani is pretty good defensively, the problem is that people keep comparing him to Valencia, which is harsh.

It's like saying Valencia is really one footed because Nani is so much better in that regard, because Nani is one of the most two-footed players around.
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Nani is a great winger, but the only point I was making was that Nani wouldn't have pinned back Ashley Cole as well as Valencia. I don't mean to discredit his work rate.
 
Valencia has always been very good at the defensive side, he put in a great performance in that regard for Wigan against us in January of 09, when Rooney scored in the first minute but went of injured and then Wigan put in their best performance against us by miles.
 
Does anyone else think a big factor in Valencia looking so impressive these last few weeks is down to him being so fresh, while other players in our team and the defenders he's up against are jaded after a long season?

Obviously, it's a trade off between being fresh vs rusty but it's easy to forget how much of a toll, physically, the huge amount of football we've played this season has had on other players in our squad (thinking of Nani here)
 
Lynk said:
Nani is a great winger, but the only point I was making was that Nani wouldn't have pinned back Ashley Cole as well as Valencia. I don't mean to discredit his work rate.
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The point is that nobody would. And no offense intended, but you were slating him quite a bit more than just saying 'he's not as good as Valencia'.

Again, there's nothing wrong with a winger not being as good as Valencia.
 
R_Nick said:
Valencia has always been very good at the defensive side, he put in a great performance in that regard for Wigan against us in January of 09, when Rooney scored in the first minute but went of injured and then Wigan put in their best performance against us by miles.
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I remember that, didn't he completely skin O'Shea at times? (Not an easy task mind, O'Shea is very good defensively)
 
Lynk said:
I remember that, didn't he completely skin O'Shea at times? (Not an easy task mind, O'Shea is very good defensively)
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Yea he ran Sheasy ragged that game, he and Palacios were particularly good I seem to remember.
 
cina said:
The point is that nobody would. And no offense intended, but you were slating him quite a bit more than just saying 'he's not as good as Valencia'.

Again, there's nothing wrong with a winger not being as good as Valencia.
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I think it's just a mental thing, I'm sure Nani could be as good as Valencia if he tried fully and looked at his weaknesses.
 
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