Of course there are some examples in there but his form hasn't been consistently good. However he seems a different player altogether again now that Hernandez is stretching the opposition and allowing him space to work in, surely you have all noticed that too?
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Of course there are some examples in there but his form hasn't been consistently good. However he seems a different player altogether again now that Hernandez is stretching the opposition and allowing him space to work in, surely you have all noticed that too?
I agree with your general point but disagree that Hernandez has sparked Rooney into form as it wasn't the position that Rooney was playing in that was the issue.
Nothing that you couldn't predict from the ongoing improvement going back since the turn of the year. Feel free to go back through this thread. I've been talking about a steady improvement in his game for months now. His recent displays have come as no surprise at all.
He was always going to come good eventually but the problem wasn't his partner. The problem was Wayne Rooney.
Well....
I'll start with mentioning all his BIG goals (AC Milan away, AC Milan home, Bayern away, Arsenal away, Arsenal home, City home in the cup etc etc) and then you'll use the stats to say that it proves nothing because "berba didn't play in those games though" and we'll end up going in roundabouts.
So you don't think Hernandez movement and stretching of the opposition is helping at all?
Well then what are you debating?
My point is, Rooney was brilliant with Ruud and with Saha, probably the best I've ever seen him. Since Rooney and Hernandez have been playing together I'm reminded of that old Rooney for the first time in a LONG time.
No-one agree? just me? fair enough.
Ofcourse it's helping but he was in good form before he started playing with Hernandez as well. He's been playing especially well since the Villa game but he had loads of great games at home as well vs the likes of B'ham, Rovers, Sunderland etc.
I think it's one of many factors.
No doubt the different qualities that Berbatov provides (hold-up play, vision and creativity) will also help keep up his current hot streak. We'll see when they next play together, possibly this weekend.
Bringing this back on topic, a lot of Rooney's goals last season (Rooney's most prolific season in a United shirt by far) came from Berbatov feeding Valencia, feeding Rooney. I'm looking to seeing the three of them linking up again, that's for sure.
So, basically, you're right but there's no way of showing you're right because I won't listen? Brilliant argument, that.
He scored in 10 of his 15 games up front on his own. He scored in 15 of his 20 games alongside Berbatov.
I'm not sure I see the link between Rooney playing alongside Ruud/Saha and Rooney playing on his own up front - they're entirely contrasting roles.
What? I said nothing of the sort. Just that we'll go in roundabouts if we carry on because I can use my stats and you can use yours. Stats can be "bent".
Considering it's usually "tougher" for a striker to play up top alone I'd say those stats back up my argument although I'm guessing you're not going to agree with me?
I've gotta be honest, I've never been convinced by the Rooney/Berbatov partnership and I doubt I ever will. For me it's one or the other but they are both special players so of course they can still force it to work on plenty of occasions.
The link is "NOT playing with alongside a striker that wants to occupy the same spaces".
Despite his stats last year I still preferred the "old Rooney", and now he's back playing alongside a line leader he is actually starting to look like him again.... and well, I like it.
So, a bit like Tevez, then? They wanted to occupy the same spaces - and it was because Tevez was there that Rooney couldn't occupy the 'old Rooney' roles - but yet you've somehow made the distinction between the Berbatov and Tevez partnerships?
Do you think that Rooney was playing the same role alongside Tevez/Ronaldo that he is now (i.e. behind the striker)? Do you think that the Tevez-Rooney partnership was better than Berbatov-Rooney?
Yes, but you seen two completely different versions of Rooney - you could argue both are better than the Rooney in the Roonatov partnership but for completely different reasons.
Also worth noting that Rooney's played behind the striker for the entire season, and looked much more creative than last season - with or without Berbatov.
I've said multiple times that the best Rooney was the one that played with Ruud and Saha, even better for my money than the Rooney of last year.
For me he was only a little better with Tevez but that was due to the fact that you'll always get space when you have a crazy Argentine putting pressure on defenders left right and centre. Still wasn't a perfect partnership though and it didn't bring out that "old Rooney" I'm talking about. It's early days but the Hernandez partnership is certainly bringing back memories of that. Even SAF seems excited.
I think while Hernandez probably facilitates it he's far from the main factor in Rooney's role change, or the reversion to the 'old Rooney' - he'd been played behind the striker from the start of the season,for the first time consistently in half a decade, and had many standout creative games that were without Hernandez in it.
The fact he's coming into top form alongside Hernandez right now is somewhat coincidental, I feel, because he was working his way into that regardless of his partner.
No doubt Hernandez allows him to express other aspects of his game more regularly than he would alongside Berbatov - but the reverse is true also, I think.
All I care about is it's made it abundantly clear that anyone who thought that side of his game was gone was way off the mark, and I'm sure they are delighted at that.
The fact he's coming into top form alongside Hernandez right now is somewhat coincidental, I feel, because he was working his way into that regardless of his partner.
No doubt Hernandez allows him to express other aspects of his game more regularly than he would alongside Berbatov - but the reverse is true also, I think.
All I care about is it's made it abundantly clear that anyone who thought that side of his game was gone was way off the mark, and I'm sure they are delighted at that.
You were indicating you thought Rooney's form was because of his partnership with Hernandez. I disagree with that.
This is what I agree with. I don't think anyone would disagree than Rooney plays his best football when he's partnered with someone that plays the way the 3 mentioned strikers do.
Fair enough, and that comment was more tongue in cheek, of course there is more to it than JUST Hernandez... however Hernandez is certainly helping Rooney's form. Rooney seems to be loving football again in this role and that helps every footballer.
I agree, his decision making is appauling at times, shoots from long range when he should pass and passes when the keeper hands him a gift and a half. If he ever gets that, and the matador shit sorted he'll be a long way ahead though.
I'll agree, here. We've seen something of Rooney very recently that we've not seen on a consistent basis for a while - a continuous willingness to express himself fully and to dominate play.
It's difficult to describe. Little things like that backheel by the touchline towards the end of the match, perhaps. Playing behind the forward is his best position for me, and playing Hernandez infront of him allows us to utilise him to the best of his abilities.
Valencia and Nani couldn't be more different.
One is stoical, no-nonsense, puts in the cross first, and stays on his feet.
The other is mercurial, full of tricks and guile, so unpredictable that defenders freeze when he is on the ball, and shoots with either foot.
What they have in common is superb technique and pace that puts fear into defenders.
I've noticed that United's opponents have often sent two defenders to shadow Nani when he is on the ball this season. I'm not sure that I've seen Valencia draw a double team in the same way. Perhaps Valencia's return will make it harder for opponents to design their defensive game plan around containing Nani's threat.
One is stoical, no-nonsense, puts in the cross first, and stays on his feet.
The other is mercurial, full of tricks and guile, so unpredictable that defenders freeze when he is on the ball, and shoots with either foot.
What they have in common is superb technique and pace that puts fear into defenders.
I've noticed that United's opponents have often sent two defenders to shadow Nani when he is on the ball this season. I'm not sure that I've seen Valencia draw a double team in the same way. Perhaps Valencia's return will make it harder for opponents to design their defensive game plan around containing Nani's threat.
Rooney was already playing the role, Hernandez is better at making the most out of what Rooney has to offer in that role. Hence, Rooney looks better playing it.
This thread is supposed to be about Valencia you know.
Oh shit yeah... how'd that happen
edit: Oh now I see, I made a quick comment about Hernandez being more of a reason for Rooney's resurgence than Valencia and then all hell broke loose..... oops.
More often that not in his last two seasons yes.
Looked better when he came onto the left today. Barely gave the ball away, kept it moving and that opened up room for the likes of Nani to wander. Might not work every week but it shows the claims that he cannot play on the left were complete rubbish
ran his socks off.
well played lad
well played lad
Like an old fashioned traditional winger. Its great to have back for the last part of the season.
Wonderful, I just hope he gets to play 10 games so he can get a premier league medal at the end of the season. (8 games left, he needs to play 7)
Was excellent today, what is that his second or third game back and he can go 90 minutes like that, he is a machine
Thought he was very good today, all things considered. He went 90 minutes in a very tough match with ten men having hardly played the last few months and he was running hard as an ox even late on.
He's one hell of a physical specimen, and having that sort of lightening fast, bruiser is a tremendous asset. Great work rate too. I was surprised how well he did in sort of a free role/ drifting from the centre to the left when we were down to ten men. Made the ball his own, ran at their defence and broke through their midfield line and gave us penetration. Great composure to play it simple, when running at those paces and to not put us under undue pressure. If he grew a left foot, he'd almost be unplayable IMO.
He's one hell of a physical specimen, and having that sort of lightening fast, bruiser is a tremendous asset. Great work rate too. I was surprised how well he did in sort of a free role/ drifting from the centre to the left when we were down to ten men. Made the ball his own, ran at their defence and broke through their midfield line and gave us penetration. Great composure to play it simple, when running at those paces and to not put us under undue pressure. If he grew a left foot, he'd almost be unplayable IMO.
Did very well. On both sides and through the middle in the last minutes too.
Is he going on international duty?
The thing is, when playing on the left today how much did Nani's very good left foot really deliver for him today? Very little. We know he does really well coming off the right and shooting with it, he had that great strike today with it too. But when he's forced to go on the outside and cross it left foot he rarely has any real joy. And thats a player with a really good left foot.
Valencia on the other hand gets the weight and timing of his linkup play and passing a lot better than Nani when he's out there on the left. Alright we didnt see him swing a left foot at it, but with Evra bombing past him he doesnt need to and with better passing and linkup with team mates Valencia simply doesnt have to go on the outside and cross with his left. He can bring all sorts of players into the game.
Valencia on the other hand gets the weight and timing of his linkup play and passing a lot better than Nani when he's out there on the left. Alright we didnt see him swing a left foot at it, but with Evra bombing past him he doesnt need to and with better passing and linkup with team mates Valencia simply doesnt have to go on the outside and cross with his left. He can bring all sorts of players into the game.
Not quite as rubbish as the claims that Nani can't.
Valencia was class today. His fitness levels, after being out injured for so long, are unreal. Someone should make Anderson his training partner.
I thought he was poor in the first half but really came on strong when he moved to the left and then started drifting central.
I cant remember anyone saying Nani cant play on the left. He's just clearly not as dangerous as when he's been playing on the right this season
I'd be surprised if he didn't unless he gets an injury or suspension.
you can ask for a medal to be given to a player who hasnt played 10 under special circumstances, larsson got one and didnt play 10
I thought he looked very rusty and quiet for the first 70 minutes, but he played a big part in turning the game in our favour when he started roaming around in the last 20 minutes - mainly because it made us less rigid as our 4 attackers started swapping places
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