Yeah I agree, Argentina have had some great destroyers over the years. Mascherano could have done it back in his heyday but personally I don't think he should be even in the squad these days, and there aren't really any other obvious options.
Argentina NT
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Messi+10
Do you guys reckon they have a decent chance to win it this summer? Might be their best chance in the foreseeable future, with Messi being too old next time.
It’s possible but they will need some luck. Spain, Germany and Brazil are stronger overall.
Their best chance was 2014.
Just can't see them being as strong this time round. Mascherano was superb in last world cup, he's half retired now.
I'd say absolutely none.
Messi's last realistic chance to win a World Cup.
He's seen as the GOAT in many, if not most, footballing of circles.
But in his own country, he's very much playing second fiddle to Maradonna. That will only change if he can win Argentina this WC. The pressure's on if he wants to go down in history as his nation's greatest ever player, despite already being arguably the world's greatest ever player. It'd be a bitter (and incongruous) pill for him to swallow if he can't end his career as both.
He's seen as the GOAT in many, if not most, footballing of circles.
But in his own country, he's very much playing second fiddle to Maradonna. That will only change if he can win Argentina this WC. The pressure's on if he wants to go down in history as his nation's greatest ever player, despite already being arguably the world's greatest ever player. It'd be a bitter (and incongruous) pill for him to swallow if he can't end his career as both.
With that power up front if Sampaoli can fix the defense they have a good chance.
Significantly tougher draw in the World Cup for them compared to last time.
Their defense will be worse, and Sampaoli hasn’t had enough time to find a proper starting XI
I think they'll win it. Not exactly sure why but I just do.
They'll probably have to defeat Spain, Germany and Brazil in a row in order to win. Not very likely.
Think Icardi and maybe Dybala will be left out in the end. Aguero, Messi, Higuain and Perrotti are enough upfront, plus Di Maria in the middle.
Don’t think they’ve got a chance, that defence will be torn apart by any decent team.
If Higuain starts matches, then they have no hope. Great league striker, bottler on the WC stage.
What lineups did Sampaoli test during the last 12 month?
With Sampaoli as coach they have a chance. He will get them playing as much more of a team than previous coaches have. I struggle to see them getting past a Germany or a Spain though, both of whom are just far too well organised and are a much more united group.
On the other hand, there's an emotional factor. This will be the last world cup of any significance for Messi, Higuain, Mascherano, Aguero, Di Maria, Biglia, and Otamendia. Almost all those players have been part of the three previous final failures. They will be hurting. They will be desperate for that not to be their legacy, and they'll throw every ounce of themselves into this tournament. That could produce something special. It could also cause them to lose their heads completely, like Brazil did in 2014.
Indeed. Aguero is surely a must-starter.
As much stick as Higuain gets, Aguero's also flattered to deceive at international level.
Yep, could go both ways. Will be interesting to see. But as you say they'll likely have a tough way to reach the final.
If they are going to have a hope, Sampaoli must be working overtime on organizing their defence. They have piles of firepower, but a list of great attackers means little since you can't get them all on the park. Italy were not expected to win it in 2006 and those players grew over the tournament, so it can happen. With a bit of "luck" regarding the knock out fixtures, who knows.
the worst thing for them is that they struggle so much with scoring. if only they were like those typical fragile Arsenal teams that play good football but concede too much, or they were like Atletico, with unwatchable football but with good defence, it would be better. currently they are neither.
also, potential knockout draw is ridiculous. can't see them doing anything really.
also, potential knockout draw is ridiculous. can't see them doing anything really.
I believe this time they have a proper coach, even though maybe he hasnt have had that much time to work with them. Germany wont win it twice in a row me thinks, France has good players but they never will win anything with Deschamps, that leaves Brazil and Argentina. They could just about scrape to win it. One thing for sure, Messi knows this is last real chance to win it. but let me tell you, to my argentinian friends he will never be the goat. thats just for Diego
They have to find a way to integrate Dybala, he's too talented to leave out. That kid has some game breaking ability.
Surely you'd rank Spain higher given they defeated Argies 6-1 just two months ago.
Argentina probably going to be similar to 2010, get to quarters and then convincingly knocked out by one of the favourites.
yeah sorry, I forgot to mention Spain, they will be up there as well. I think they are missing a Villa like type of striker, great goalkeeper though, also it will be interesting to see their holding midfield options.
that game you are refering to was a friendly wasn't?
Only a friendly and Argentina were Messi less but highlighted their defence and defensive midfield weaknesses against high calibre opposition.
They will deceive folks into flattery yet again
If their attack can mesh, then they will do well. Too many stars and too little chemistry between the Argentines sometimes.
So looking at the other top teams, they didnt do that bad. Some people were destroying them, but they were ok. Never looked like they are in danger of losing, but they didnt have much answers to Icelands defending.
I thought Caballero, while experienced, is completely useless. Armani would surely deserve to start if he is as good as people say.
Biglia is another player where i am asking myself why he is starting. He is utter shite, whats he supposed to be good at? Average in every aspect of the game. Paredes was left out of the squad completely. He would be a better fit alongside Mascherano than Biglia.
Di Maria needs benched. Think the Lanzini injury hurt in that aspect, but Pavon looked promising.
Meza was anonymous. The rest did kind of ok.
Their biggest issue is tactic wise. Too narrow and Messi is an issue. If he has the ball, not enough movement. When the others have the ball, they only look to find Messi. Their wide players are also not taking any risks, not enough dribbling and enough courage to create something. If they do something good, they are looking to Messi again instead of playing their natural game. That would help Messi too if they create space for the team and him instead of putting the focus too quick and every time on him. It was easy for Iceland to defend against Argentina, who were coming through the middle and Messi most of the time. If they came out wide, they put the ball either high (Aguero) or looked for Messi on the edge of the box. I think they need to work on more varieties and how to make space for Messi and the rest of their attackers. They will look shaky defensively, they have not the best defenders around, but have a lot of offensive improvement.
I thought Caballero, while experienced, is completely useless. Armani would surely deserve to start if he is as good as people say.
Biglia is another player where i am asking myself why he is starting. He is utter shite, whats he supposed to be good at? Average in every aspect of the game. Paredes was left out of the squad completely. He would be a better fit alongside Mascherano than Biglia.
Di Maria needs benched. Think the Lanzini injury hurt in that aspect, but Pavon looked promising.
Meza was anonymous. The rest did kind of ok.
Their biggest issue is tactic wise. Too narrow and Messi is an issue. If he has the ball, not enough movement. When the others have the ball, they only look to find Messi. Their wide players are also not taking any risks, not enough dribbling and enough courage to create something. If they do something good, they are looking to Messi again instead of playing their natural game. That would help Messi too if they create space for the team and him instead of putting the focus too quick and every time on him. It was easy for Iceland to defend against Argentina, who were coming through the middle and Messi most of the time. If they came out wide, they put the ball either high (Aguero) or looked for Messi on the edge of the box. I think they need to work on more varieties and how to make space for Messi and the rest of their attackers. They will look shaky defensively, they have not the best defenders around, but have a lot of offensive improvement.
Been that way for years, at some times I think having Leo is doing Argentina more harm than good. "They could play better without being obsessed with their 10 creating everything", then I remember what happens when Argentina plays without Messi and that idea is gone.
And beyond that, what everyone already knows, this Argentina is just a downgraded version of the 2014 squad. Cavallero, Salvio, Rojo (CB), Tagliafico, Pavon and Meza are worse than Romero, Zabaleta, Garay, Rojo (LB), Palacio and Lavezzi in 2014. Mascherano, Banega, Biglia, Higuain and Enzo Perez are arguably in a worse form than 4 years ago, and we could even say the same of Messi and Di Maria, who probably won't get to replicate their level in Brazil.
The only plus sides they have are Agüero (never really did well with Argentina, but he was promising vs Iceland), Dybala (way better than any sub Argentina had in 2014, but doesn't seem he'll get much playtime at this rate) and Lo Celso (who we could consider a huge upgrade in what would be Gago in 2014, but doesn't seem like a real choice for the starting 11).
And what you said about Biglia, I read someone said "how could you not play Messi and Dybala because they're too similar, but field Mascherano and Biglia, that's nonsense", and I think he was 100% right. It's almost like having the option to field Maradona, Pelé and 98' Dunga, but choosing to play Pelé, Dunga and Sampaio leaving Maradona on the bench for "tactical reasons".
They have so few goal threats. You see teams like germany where the full back hits the byline and goes to cross and theres 4 players in the box and someone lurking just outside. With Argentina its just little aguero in the box and messi on the edge, very easy to read what the plan is, neither biglia or masch will get in to the box and neither di maria or meza will ghost in at the back post.
Is Dybala there exclusively as Messi’s sub? If I was Sampaoli I’d find a way to play with both him and Messi on the field. Good players find a way to play together.
I think Pavon deserves a start ahead of Di Maria. He looked lively on saturday.
Dybala must play. It's criminal to not use him.
Too narrow? Move Messi on the left and put Dybala at 10.
The issue will for ever remain attempting to use Messi as the sole outlet for creativity. It simply makes team triple and quadruple team him easily blunting the team. Yet he still has to also be on the ends of moves. It makes no sense to make him do both roles. Its time for them to do a Portugal and place him on the finishing end of things. Not the starting end
Won't be a problem for much longer, he'll retire from international football after this tournament imo.
It's pretty crazy how a team with so much attacking talent can be focused so much at a single player, even one of Messi's quality, it makes them way too predictable and offers other players a great excuse to hide behind him.
To be fair to them they really aren't the only team to have failed at that . Iceland is 22nd in the FIFA ranking and got to the quarter finals in the Euro 2016 and won their qualifying group for the WC2018 that was one of the toughest group. It's a well drilled team that really knows how to close spaces and nullify their opponents. I think Gudjohnsen said it best when he said he would hate to play against this team. What I would worry for in Argentina 's play is their failure to involve players not named Messi . If they want to go far they will need to find a way to get all the other top players into the game .