Arsene Wenger - “The huge financial power of some clubs is basically destroying the competition."

[0161_UNITED]

You wouldn't need a consensus at all. UEFA just institutes a Wage Cap on the CL and EL. That would basically force all leagues to comply whether they like it or not.

Of course it does have several problems: enforcement, performance based contracts and you're right that the richer PL would still have an advantage over most other teams but it still could work much better than the current system or proposed FFP rules.

I predict in the next 20 years a wage cap will be instituted at CL and EL level.

Wrong. The clubs would challenge UEFA legally or pull out and form their own super league. Even if it was applied across Europe, it would leave European clubs more vulnerable than ever to non-European leagues like China or MLS.

Also, anyone unfamiliar with salary caps in America - like the NFL and NBA, need to understand the side effects - namely that “dead weight” on wages limits what the team can do. Teams have to shift very good players, and fan favourites out, to fit everything under the cap. You can only build a good long enough for it to be ripped apart because of the salary cap.

 

[Zlatattack]

The only way to limit the big clubs is to reduce foreign players in the squad

It would force clubs to focus on homegrown players and youth players and only being allowed 3-5 foreigners in the 11 on the pitch

Wouldn't solve everything but i'm sure it would bring the prices of players down and limit the financial power of clubs

It would be great if EUFA enforced this. You have to have 7 home grown players in the team, including 3 from your own academy. You couldn't buy 22 of the best players and dominate a league, you'd actually have to find the most talented kids and train them.

 

[ghagua]

Weak argument. Arsenal and Spurs generate their own money, same goes with United. The bigger clubs, essentially a bigger brand will always dominate even if there are periods of no success. Same applies to any market, Nike over New Balance, BMW over Alfa Romeo, iPhone over LG.

What he is arguing about, although not said specifically is that some clubs are backed by unlimited resources, essentially they are owned by states or even countries. Manchester City/PSG/Real Madrid come to mind here. Although the latter have been failing this season, it doesn't erase the fact that there is a huge gap here. So long as they are backed, they are likely to dominate - bad management aside.

He is right, the game is already ruined, but a few years like this, and the passion of the sport will diminish. People will get bored simply put.

What weak argument? Arsenal have always boasted about having cash money stashed away, so why is he not signing players to improve his team. Why is he not giving his youth players a chance?

 

[Kapardin]

I agree that the richest clubs are often the most privileged.

But Wenger has realized that due to the rich clubs easily claiming the top 4 spots, his usual method of spending minimally and doing just enough to get 4th place is no longer working. Arsenal's form in the past 2 seasons is really not too different from what they have been doing for ages, yet they finished 5th last season and could finish 5th or 6th this season.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Wrong. The clubs would challenge UEFA legally or pull out and form their own super league. Even if it was applied across Europe, it would leave European clubs more vulnerable than ever to non-European leagues like China or MLS.

Also, anyone unfamiliar with salary caps in America - like the NFL and NBA, need to understand the side effects - namely that “dead weight” on wages limits what the team can do. Teams have to shift very good players, and fan favourites out, to fit everything under the cap. You can only build a good long enough for it to be ripped apart because of the salary cap.

What legal grounds do they have to challenge UEFA?
How many clubs do you really think would want to breakaway?

PSG, City, United, Barca, Real and Bayern is not enough to form a super league.
I can't see a single club outside those 6 (even Chelsea now that Roman is not spunking hundreds of millions) ever supporting a breakaway super league like you mention. Its why the super league idea never happened even though its been talked about for 30 years. No club is going want to go from the 3rd-4th in their domestic league to 16th in a super league they have no chance of winning. A lot less revenue in that model as well from broadcast as you drastically reduce the amount of games that could be sold for TV.
No incentives there outside the richest 6 or so and even though I don't see it as viable.

Sure wage caps present challenges but 10 years of just the richest 3-4 clubs in the world winning the CL and the public will be wanting something to incentivize more competition.

 

[clarkydaz]

This coming from the club that fleeces their fans for money

 

[0161_UNITED]

What legal grounds do they have to challenge UEFA?
How many clubs do you really think would want to breakaway?

PSG, City, United, Barca, Real and Bayern is not enough to form a super league.
I can't see a single club outside those 6 (even Chelsea now that Roman is not spunking hundreds of millions) ever supporting a breakaway super league like you mention. Its why the super league idea never happened even though its been talked about for 30 years. No club is going want to go from the 3rd-4th in their domestic league to 16th in a super league they have no chance of winning. A lot less revenue in that model as well from broadcast as you drastically reduce the amount of games that could be sold for TV.
No incentives there outside the richest 6 or so and even though I don't see it as viable.

Sure wage caps present challenges but 10 years of just the richest 3-4 clubs in the world winning the CL and the public will be wanting something to incentivize more competition.

UEFA would essentially be unilaterally telling clubs how much of their revenue they are entitled to spend. That certainly could warrant legal grounds. FFP dictates they can’t spend outside their means, a salary cap would indicate clubs can’t spend what they earn - that’s different. Even FFP in its current form is probably subject to legal challenges, nobody has pursued it yet.

The difference is that in the US it takes ~32 owners to agree to the cap. It wasn’t mandated. Plus there is no serious competition to NFL or NBA from foreign leagues.

If UEFA were to unilaterally tell clubs that they can only spend a portion of their revenue, the owners might like it - for a bit. The fans would hate it though.

Think about it. The biggest clubs would hit the cap almost immediately - and struggle to shift players out - nobody in the next tiers of clubs would take on additional wages. Most of the top 50 clubs in football would hit the cap soon after - same problem for them. “Entrepreneurs” would be buying low wage bill clubs up left and right to load them up with talent to take a shot at the big clubs who’d be desperately trying to shed players off their wage bill - while the fans practically riot. Deadwood on the wage bill at United, Madrid, etc. would get death threats, etc.

The big clubs would know this. They’d break away from UEFA in a heartbeat.

 

[Canuckred64]

Clubs like City and PSG who are supported by sovereign wealth and spend without justification or sustainability deserve no respect or plaudits, no matter what they win. At least when us, Real, Barca and others spend we've earned that right due to our commercial success, sustainability and popularity.

That is right on in my opinion. The only change I would like to see is the banning of nation states from owning clubs.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

UEFA would essentially be unilaterally telling clubs how much of their revenue they are entitled to spend. That certainly could warrant legal grounds. FFP dictates they can’t spend outside their means, a salary cap would indicate clubs can’t spend what they earn - that’s different. Even FFP in its current form is probably subject to legal challenges, nobody has pursued it yet..

UEFA is its own organization. It can easily set a wage cap limit and I guarantee the "big clubs" have zero grounds to challenge it in court. It doesn't legally tell clubs what to spend. It simply gives a wage limit to enter the competition. They are free to not enter.

If UEFA were to unilaterally tell clubs that they can only spend a portion of their revenue, the owners might like it - for a bit. The fans would hate it though.

I think this very far off base. Maybe a handful of fans at PSG, City, Real or United might complain a little on the internet because their club can't spunk hundreds of millions in one window but it wouldn't make much difference long term as most fans actually welcome increased competition. The way things are going, people are going to get bored if its just PSG and City with occasional "underdogs" like Real, United and Bayern winning.

Also you can't just invent hypotheticals to suit your point now. There is no objective reason to believe that the "top 50" clubs would automatically hit this hypothetical cap.

The idea that any club outside the richest 6 would want to breakaway is just pure fantasy. The economics don't work out at all for a super league which is why no one really thinks its viable outside some random internet fans.

You would need at least 16 clubs to form a breakaway league. Good luck trying to convince any outside the top 6. Arsenal, Liverpool, Dortmund, Atletico? They would never join a super league just to become bottom table fodder for the sugar daddy clubs.

 

[antohan]

He's not wrong.

Supporters of the blue bloods will blame PSG and City for distorting an "otherwise perfect market", so nothing new to see.

I would enforce soft salary caps, severely restrict the loan system, and reduce CL participants to a maximum of 2 clubs per league. Amongst other things.

How exactly is that supposed to help? You are most likely cutting off the ones most needing to generate their own money.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Wenger/Arsenal sacrificed alot to pay for their new stadium, and now should be reaping the benefits, but find themselves a long way behind after all this unlimited financial backing of lower ranking clubs has screwed the market, it must really annoy him, I'm sure if they'd fallen behind while all clubs lived within their means he'd be the first to put his hands up.

 

[0161_UNITED]

UEFA is its own organization. It can easily set a wage cap limit and I guarantee the "big clubs" have zero grounds to challenge it in court. It doesn't legally tell clubs what to spend. It simply gives a wage limit to enter the competition. They are free to not enter.




I think this very far off base. Maybe a handful of fans at PSG, City, Real or United might complain a little on the internet because their club can't spunk hundreds of millions in one window but it wouldn't make much difference long term as most fans actually welcome increased competition. The way things are going, people are going to get bored if its just PSG and City with occasional "underdogs" like Real, United and Bayern winning.

Also you can't just invent hypotheticals to suit your point now. There is no objective reason to believe that the "top 50" clubs would automatically hit this hypothetical cap.

The idea that any club outside the richest 6 would want to breakaway is just pure fantasy. The economics don't work out at all for a super league which is why no one really thinks its viable outside some random internet fans.

You “guarantee it”, eh? Suppose you’re working in corporate and European law are you? Smart lad.

Also, in your opinion, Real Madrid, Barca, United, Juventus, and all the fans of the top clubs would gladly see their club be less competitive for the sake of making other clubs more competitive. Nonsense. Football fans are many things, altruistic at the expense of their clubs success they ain’t.

It’s also not hypothetical - a salary cap in a sport where revenue increases year over year means that all the high earning clubs will hit the cap. Unless you’re talking about some “fake” cap - like it’s set at the highest earning clubs bill + 20% every year. The clubs that earn the most typically spend the most, a few exceptions here and there. So you know who’d thrive for a bit with a salary cap? Tottenham. One Nil to the Arsenal indeed

 

[tinfish]

What weak argument? Arsenal have always boasted about having cash money stashed away, so why is he not signing players to improve his team. Why is he not giving his youth players a chance?

No matter how much money we have we cannot compete with state owned teams. They can pay for the players of the absolute highest caliber, we are talking about hundreds of millions on one player which was never the way a few years ago. Arsenal or other teams cannot pay such kind of money. No matte rhow much they make in commercial, TV etc.

Teams like Manchester City are out of this world and you know it.

 

[BobbyManc]

UEFA is its own organization. It can easily set a wage cap limit and I guarantee the "big clubs" have zero grounds to challenge it in court. It doesn't legally tell clubs what to spend. It simply gives a wage limit to enter the competition. They are free to not enter.

You can legally challenge UEFA on any rules they set. They still have to adhere to EU laws, although there is some, albeit limited, room for manoeuvre. No idea where a wage limit would sit in that regard, I'd imagine they could possibly tie it to revenue but I don't think they could outright define an amount that no club could surpass. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the matter could enlighten us.

I think this very far off base. Maybe a handful of fans at PSG, City, Real or United might complain a little on the internet because their club can't spunk hundreds of millions in one window but it wouldn't make much difference long term as most fans actually welcome increased competition. The way things are going, people are going to get bored if its just PSG and City with occasional "underdogs" like Real, United and Bayern winning.

Still find it hilarious that teams like Real, United and Bayern can genuinely claim to feel aggrieved and act like 'underdogs' because City and PSG have started outspending them. A cursory glance at the Premier League winners before Chelsea entered the scene, and a comparison with the winners afterwards, should suffice in alerting you to the domination United had on the league which any 'sugar daddy' club has yet to come even close to emulating, and probably never will. It's just groundless scaremongering by fans who are suffering at the hands of City and PSG to claim that both clubs are going to dominate European football, when there is nothing to suggest that whatsoever. Neither have even reached a final yet. Madrid have just won back to back titles. Yeah, clearly 'the way things are going' are towards a CL competed merely between City and PSG.

 

[Hughie77]

Wenger has a point, ffp was supposed to combat the clubs spending money they do not generate themselves? But it seems the sovereign arab state owned clubs have sidestepped it by other means. If fifa or ueafa dont do anything to ease it to make it a more level playing field, there is going to be a break away European or world league where all the big boys ie money clubs will play. Can see a epl a laliga a bundesliga etc with no top clubs in it. And it's not far away. Cl is getting predictive the money it generates compared to epl is lower , so something has to change and it won' t be for the better. Wenger who does like a gripe has a valid point.

 

[Gareth williams]

Life is unfair after all.

Does the city of Sheffield (relatively big city in the UK) has a good team nowadays? You know the answer.

In Scotland, I have the feeling it's always the same clubs that won the big trophies since a long time.

It's true the competition is limited when it comes to winning titles, raising the following question: is it a new phenomenon only explained by money? Not fully sure. Each era has its winners.

Regarding Everton, if your top management is excellent, you can at least dream of seeing your club playing the Champions League. My consolation prize

Maybe, should we make transfers on the basis of a lottery to ensure an allocation of talented players all over the country?

I understand it's unfair. I just don't understand the likes of Utd fans somehow thinking it's unfair to them because they've been pushed from the top by PSG and City.

the reality is it's unfair on everyone apart from about 10-15 teams and you're 1 of the 1s close to the top of that group.

Honestly good luck to city and PSG. Nice to have a little more competition and doesn't really affect the vast majority who the door was already closed on anyway

 

[Jeffthered]

Whilst I do agree with Wenger he simply making excuses for his own short comings.

Arsenal as a club are one of the most profitable in the world. Their tickets prices are the most expensive. They still have millions sat in the bank. The difference between Arsenal and the other clubs is they spent as much money as they can without causing financial worries. They get their best players on new contracts as early as possible and finally they strengthen their squad weaknesses. How many years have people been saying they need a Vieria type midfielder and a solid CB? 10 years later he's still buys £5m 20 year old that never make the cut. The sooner Arsenal get rid of him the better now.

Absolutely. Arsenal are the fifth richest clubs in World football, and they aren't competitive in the top competitions.

 

[1Manchester]

Let's put some perspective here, Arsenal makes more revenue (just about) then PSG even when you take account of the Qatari sponsorship which backs the latter club (and even the Emirati sponsorship too), in fact only the big 2 Manchester Clubs, the El Classico and Bayern make more than they do. Likewise they have a majority shareholder who is part of what is the richest non-royal families in the world and another shareholder who is one of the richest people in Russia. So the fact they claim they cannot financially keep up with the likes of Real, Barcelona and the Manchester clubs over a decade after the Emirates opened (1) says a lot about why he and Kroenke need to get out of that club.

(1) In fact Wenger recently claimed that "financial constants" imposed by the banks to financed that stadium is the reason why they cannot "afford" to spend any more money on transfers/wages. A excuse that is as bad as the sort Ty (of ArsenalFanTV) would come up with.

The 3 teams ahead of arsenal arent sugar daddy clubs though

Let's not forget that Tottenham are doing better in the League and in Europe than the Arsenal at this season, were better in the league last season too and have produced more homegrown players than the Arsenal. Something which they have managed to achieve despite spending less on transfers and especially wages than their North London rivals.

He's not wrong. Serie A is the only one worth watching at the moment. The battle between Napoli and Juventus could go down to the wire.

Kind of ironic that that league has become competitive against when other leagues are generally heading in the opposite direction.

Clubs like City and PSG who are supported by sovereign wealth and spend without justification or sustainability deserve no respect or plaudits, no matter what they win. At least when us, Real, Barca and others spend we've earned that right due to our commercial success, sustainability and popularity.

Not so much Real Madrid...

Real Madrid has thoughout various periods in its history benefitted from direct/indirect government support (1), which has helped generated the sort of success which has in turn brought the fanbase, broadcast revenues, merchandise revenues and matchday revenues which drives the vast revenue they generate.

United on the other hand is a different story of course when it comes to government support...

(1) Most recently from the favours the government gave in relation to the sale of their old training ground, which enabled them to purchase the first wave of galácticos in the first place.

Likewise speaking of Real Madrid, what the first galácticos lack of success shows is that while financial resources might help you achieve success, you need to take account of the others aspects in as well when it comes to running a team (i.e what players you purchase/promote, tactics and what kind of manager you have) if you actually want to achieve it.

 

[carvajal]

Still find it hilarious that teams like Real, United and Bayern can genuinely claim to feel aggrieved and act like 'underdogs' because City and PSG have started outspending them. A cursory glance at the Premier League winners before Chelsea entered the scene, and a comparison with the winners afterwards, should suffice in alerting you to the domination United had on the league which any 'sugar daddy' club has yet to come even close to emulating, and probably never will. It's just groundless scaremongering by fans who are suffering at the hands of City and PSG to claim that both clubs are going to dominate European football, when there is nothing to suggest that whatsoever. Neither have even reached a final yet. Madrid have just won back to back titles. Yeah, clearly 'the way things are going' are towards a CL competed merely between City and PSG.

Obviously you are not going to win the champions each year,and although it has not yet happened ,the fact is that you have unlimited funds for state funding. That is mainly the complaint. United had a great hegemony in the past based on their history, number of fans, whatever, but competed in the same conditions.
Without control of uefa don´t you think you could spend 500 million every year? what would stop you at the time of buying more Gironas?

 

[Ecstatic]

Football generates a lot of money and the players are the heart of the Game... Footballers have a short career and fully deserve to get their %.

A lot of money generated by a small number of employees logically explain the crazy wages.

A salary cap simply enable the shareholders not to share the value creation with their employees i.e. the players.

The sky is the limit for everybody and some of you want a limit for footballers because they are not graduate from MIT, Harvard or the Actors Comedy Studio...

I understand it's unfair. I just don't understand the likes of Utd fans somehow thinking it's unfair to them because they've been pushed from the top by PSG and City.

the reality is it's unfair on everyone apart from about 10-15 teams and you're 1 of the 1s close to the top of that group.

Honestly good luck to city and PSG. Nice to have a little more competition and doesn't really affect the vast majority who the door was already closed on anyway

Thanks. Most of PSG fans enjoy the situation.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm already bored of the French league given the limited competition so I am no longer excited by the French league. The adrenaline can only come from the Champions League.

If there is the same net spending cap for all the clubs, it could rebalance things IMO

 

[BAMSOLA]

He's right, but at this point he's basically King Canute.

 

[0161_UNITED]

Still find it hilarious that teams like Real, United and Bayern can genuinely claim to feel aggrieved and act like 'underdogs' because City and PSG have started outspending them. A cursory glance at the Premier League winners before Chelsea entered the scene, and a comparison with the winners afterwards, should suffice in alerting you to the domination United had on the league which any 'sugar daddy' club has yet to come even close to emulating, and probably never will. It's just groundless scaremongering by fans who are suffering at the hands of City and PSG to claim that both clubs are going to dominate European football, when there is nothing to suggest that whatsoever. Neither have even reached a final yet. Madrid have just won back to back titles. Yeah, clearly 'the way things are going' are towards a CL competed merely between City and PSG.

Blackburn and Chelsea are the proof. It’s only “groundless scaremongering” until it comes to fruition. In some ways you’re right @BobbyManc, we have yet to see a sustained run of success like United, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, AC Milan had. And certainly viewing it as an existential threat to be countered by implementing a “salary cap” is like fearing your neighbour’s success so much that you’d set fire to your own house and paint the burned out remains bright pink to lower his property value.

However, just because we haven’t seen a football dynasty established by City or PSG doesn’t mean the trends aren’t concerning. If traditionally successful football clubs, with global fan bases and amazing revenue generation, are under threat it warrants consideration, certainly.

I still think we also skirt the real issue here - there is indignation at historically and economically successful clubs having their hegemony challenged - But we’ve also yet to fully digest what happened with Rangers, Malaga, and Blackburn actually means to fans, like you and I and millions of others. Owners artificially injecting and spending far outside the means of the club and walking away can and has resulted in absolute catastrophe.

You can feel safe in the loving arms of the Sheikhs, or the Oligarchs, for now.

 

[redshaw]

If we're talking about competition then Arsenal have clicked their fingers and brought in Lacazette and Aubameyang who might be best left providing competition in France and Germany. Arsenal suddenly want something and splashed out, even in the Jan window spending 60 million.

Bayern aren't even spending. You could argue the Premier League is impacting those clubs under Bayern. PL spending is pretty shocking when you compare but then England is doing a good job with the TV money.

While City has spent, it's not like they've bought in Neymar, Messi, Neuer, Ronaldo or paid every player 500k to go there. They've bought some players who needed to come good, we could've bought the same ones. De Bruyne was at Wolfsburg. We could've hired Pep. I don't like what's happened, I wish they bought a Spanish club to break the monotony over there as the PL is getting stacked but it raises the competition here in England at least. The Premier League could become higher quality and we see more CL wins.

 

[1Manchester]

How many years have people been saying they need a Vieria type midfielder and a solid CB?

I was very surprised that after all time since Vieria left and the need for such a player they made no moves whatsoever so sign Steven Nzonzi. I mean considering his talent, his Premier League Experience and they blew it in failing to sign Kante, they should really have gone all out for him instead of p**sing around over the Sanchez saga and thus end up signing Aubameyang to compensate.

It really depends on whether this is a one off season for City or the start of a bigger pattern of dominance.

For all the money we have spent, I can say at unless City spend big during the next transfer window. I don't see us dominating the league (and certainly not Europe) over the next few seasons or so. Simply because we lack the strength in depth do be able to do that.

Perhaps. But it doesn't invalidate what I said.

Well then at least put United as an example of "how a club can succeed without government support", although to be fair they had much more favorable circumstances then then what any ambitious club has against them in the modern game.

So we would have all teams having loads of average English players who have no high motivation, because players around them are of similar quality, who have grown up with all the shortcomings of the English youth football system. Don't think that will benefit English NT performances in competitions or benefit English team performances in CL/EL.

Instead of forcing homegrown and unproven youth's into the first teams of big clubs (and thus fail to reach their potential), you need to provide them with a long-term "safe space" (i.e. a team that will give them time to develop as a player while also showing enough ambition to push the player to develop as well) for them to develop into world class players. That more than anything else is why Tottenham Hotspur has done more for the England team than anything the FA, the EPL and UEFA has done on this field and in turn this is why B Teams within the Football League need to be introduced.

Would you use that argument for the PL, the league has a monopoly on TV broadcasting and the rest gets substantially less?

I'm not being facetious, I do wonder if people see the problem.

Personally I feel that the TV Revenue Gap between the Football League and the Premier League needs to be reduced, even to the extent of setting up a Second Division of the Premier League to replace the Championship. However what I can say is that for all its faults, at least the TV money is shared out across the EPL while I am sure that despite the gap, the Championship team gets more TV Revenue than those in La Liga 2. In other words while progress needs to be made, we are doing better than the other main leagues in Europe on this front.

 

[goons]

What is he talking about watching the French league is so exciting!...

Said no one ever (anymore). Hopefully the same thing won’t happen here in England with city in a few years if they continue to outspend everyone and buy the best players because then I think ppl might understand he have a point. I hope everyone realize even Utd might have a problem to keep up in the long term if this trend continues to grow.

 

[Ecstatic]

The most expensive football transfers of all time - amounts in euros


Neymar - PSG- 222
Mbappe - PSG - 145+35=180
Coutinho - Barcelona - 120 + 40 = 160
Dembélé - Barcelona -105 + 40 =145
Pogba - United -105
Bale - Real Madrid - 101
CR7 - Real Madrid - 94
Higuain - Juventus - 90
Neymar - Barcelona - 86
Lukaku - Manchester United - 85
Van Dijk - Liverpool - 85
Luis Suarez - Barcelona -82
James - Real Madrid - 80
Morata - Chelsea - 79
Zidane - Real Madrid - 78
De Bruyne - City - 75
Di Maria - United - 75
Zlatan - Barcelona - 69
Diego Costa - Chelsea - 66
Kaka - Real Madrid - 65
Laporte - City - 65
Cavani - PSG -65
Aubamayeang - Arsenal - 63
Sterling - City- 63
David Luiz - PSG - 62
Di Maria - PSG - 62
Oscar - Shanghai - 60
Luis Figo - Real Madrid - 60
Torres - Chelsea - 59
Hulk - Shanghai - 59
Mendy - City - 58
Stones - City - 58
Walker - City - 57
Naby Keita -56
Crespo - Lazio - 55
Lacazette - Arsenal - 52
Buffon - Juventus- 52
Mangala - City - 52
Teixeira - Jiangsu Suning - 50
Bernardo Silva - City - 50
Martial - Manchester United - 49
Sigurdsson - Everton - 49
Vieiri - Inter - 49
Mendieta - Lazio - 48
Ozil - Arsenal - 47
Veron - Manchester United - 46
Ferdinand - Manchester United - 46
Ronaldo - Real Madrid - 46
Mata - Manchester United - 46
Douglas Costa - Juventus - 46
Benteke - Liverpool - 46
James Rodriguez - Monaco - 45
Joao Mario - Inter - 45
Granit Xhaka - 45
Tiemoue Bakayoko - 45
Vincenius Junior - 45
Nemanja Matic - 45
Leroy Sane - Manchester City - 44
Andriy Shevchenko
Robinho - Manchester City - 43
Radamel Falcao -43
Alexis Sanchez - 43
Rui Costa - 42
Javier Pastore - PSG -42
Thiago Silva- PSG -42
Lucas Moura - PSG - 42
Jackson Martinez - 42
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - 42
Mohamed Salah - 42
Leonardo Bonucci - 42
Lilian Thuram -42
Corentin Tolisso -42
Andy Carroll - 41
Pavel Nedved - 41
Shkodran Mustafi - 41
Sadio Mane - 41
Roberto Firmino - 41
Marc Overmars - 41
David Villa - 40
Paulinho - 40
Radamel Falcao -40
Hulk - 40
Axel Witsel -40
Javi Martinez - 40
David Luiz - Chelsea - 40
Eden Hazard - 40
Fernandinho - Manchester City - 40
Federico Bernardeschi-40
Sergio Aguero - Manchester City - 40
Ederson - Manchester City - 40
Michy Batshuayi - 39
Antonio Rudiger- 39
Didier Drogba - 39
Michael Essien -38
Fernando Torres-38
Dimitar Berbatov-38
Gonzalo Higuain-38
Diego Costa-38
Eric Bailly-38
Mats Hummels-38
Andre Silva-38
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain-38
David Beckham-38
Luke Shaw-38
Jackson Martinez- 37
Filippo Inzaghi- 37
Wayne Rooney - 37
Edin Dzeko - Manchester City - 37
Mario Gotze - 37
Arturo Vidal - 37

 

[BobbyManc]

Obviously you are not going to win the champions each year,and although it has not yet happened ,the fact is that you have unlimited funds for state funding. That is mainly the complaint. United had a great hegemony in the past based on their history, number of fans, whatever, but competed in the same conditions.
Without control of uefa don´t you think you could spend 500 million every year? what would stop you at the time of buying more Gironas?

No team should be able to have a hegemony in football.

Blackburn and Chelsea are the proof. It’s only “groundless scaremongering” until it comes to fruition. In some ways you’re right @BobbyManc, we have yet to see a sustained run of success like United, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, AC Milan had. And certainly viewing it as an existential threat to be countered by implementing a “salary cap” is like fearing your neighbour’s success so much that you’d set fire to your own house and paint the burned out remains bright pink to lower his property value.

However, just because we haven’t seen a football dynasty established by City or PSG doesn’t mean the trends aren’t concerning. If traditionally successful football clubs, with global fan bases and amazing revenue generation, are under threat it warrants consideration, certainly.

I still think we also skirt the real issue here - there is indignation at historically and economically successful clubs having their hegemony challenged - But we’ve also yet to fully digest what happened with Rangers, Malaga, and Blackburn actually means to fans, like you and I and millions of others. Owners artificially injecting and spending far outside the means of the club and walking away can and has resulted in absolute catastrophe.

You can feel safe in the loving arms of the Sheikhs, or the Oligarchs, for now.

I wholeheartedly agree (even if the trend is overstated e.g. we've just seen with the Sanchez deal that United can compete with City financially) My issue is, people do not want changes to make the sport 'fairer', they just want changes to preserve the status quo. They want changes that will cement their teams place at the top indefinitely. Yet most try and dress it up as part of some moral crusade.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

The most expensive football transfers of all time - amounts in euros


Neymar - PSG- 222
Mbappe - PSG - 145+35=180
Coutinho - Barcelona - 120 + 40 = 160
Dembélé - Barcelona -105 + 40 =145
Pogba - United -105
Bale - Real Madrid - 101
CR7 - Real Madrid - 94
Higuain - Juventus - 90
Neymar - Barcelona - 86
Lukaku - Manchester United - 85
Van Dijk - Liverpool - 85
Luis Suarez - Barcelona -82
James - Real Madrid - 80
Morata - Chelsea - 79
Zidane - Real Madrid - 78
De Bruyne - City - 75
Di Maria - United - 75
Zlatan - Barcelona - 69
Diego Costa - Chelsea - 66
Kaka - Real Madrid - 65
Laporte - City - 65
Cavani - PSG -65
Aubamayeang - Arsenal - 63
Sterling - City- 63
David Luiz - PSG - 62
Di Maria - PSG - 62
Oscar - Shanghai - 60
Luis Figo - Real Madrid - 60
Torres - Chelsea - 59
Hulk - Shanghai - 59
Mendy - City - 58
Stones - City - 58
Walker - City - 57
Naby Keita -56
Crespo - Lazio - 55
Lacazette - Arsenal - 52
Buffon - Juventus- 52
Mangala - City - 52
Teixeira - Jiangsu Suning - 50
Bernardo Silva - City - 50
Martial - Manchester United - 49
Sigurdsson - Everton - 49
Vieiri - Inter - 49
Mendieta - Lazio - 48
Ozil - Arsenal - 47
Veron - Manchester United - 46
Ferdinand - Manchester United - 46
Ronaldo - Real Madrid - 46
Mata - Manchester United - 46
Douglas Costa - Juventus - 46
Benteke - Liverpool - 46
James Rodriguez - Monaco - 45
Joao Mario - Inter - 45
Granit Xhaka - 45
Tiemoue Bakayoko - 45
Vincenius Junior - 45
Nemanja Matic - 45
Leroy Sane - 44
Andriy Shevchenko
Robinho - Manchester City - 43
Radamel Falcao -43
Alexis Sanchez - 43
Rui Costa - 42
Javier Pastore - PSG -42
Thiago Silva- PSG -42
Jackson Martinez - 42
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - 42
Mohamed Salah - 42
Leonardo Bonucci - 42
Lilian Thuram -42
Corentin Tolisso -42
Andy Carroll - 41
Pavel Nedved - 41
Shkodran Mustafi - 41
Sadio Mane - 41
Roberto Firmino - 41
Marc Overmars - 41
David Villa - 40
Paulinho - 40
Radamel Falcao -40
Hulk - 40
Axel Witsel -40
Javi Martinez - 40
David Luiz - Chelsea - 40
Eden Hazard - 40
Fernandinho - 40
Federico Bernardeschi-40
Sergio Aguero - Manchester City - 40
Ederson - Manchester City - 40
Michy Batshuayi - 39
Antonio Rudiger- 39
Didier Drogba - 39
Michael Essien -38
Fernando Torres-38
Dimitar Berbatov-38
Gonzalo Higuain-38
Diego Costa-38
Eric Bailly-38
Mats Hummels-38
Andre Silva-38
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain-38
David Beckham-38
Luke Shaw-38
Jackson Martinez- 37
Filippo Inzaghi- 37
Wayne Rooney - 37
Edin Dzeko - 37
Mario Gotze - 37
Arturo Vidal - 37

Interesting, but individual player transfer values don't show the full scope of club spending. Unless you look at total amount spent this data is misleading. It shows the silly fees PSG are spending but City have signed 19 players under Guardiola alone in 18 months. Not to mention the fact they've spent the most of all Premiership clubs over the last 10 years.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

You “guarantee it”, eh? Suppose you’re working in corporate and European law are you? Smart lad.

Also, in your opinion, Real Madrid, Barca, United, Juventus, and all the fans of the top clubs would gladly see their club be less competitive for the sake of making other clubs more competitive. Nonsense. Football fans are many things, altruistic at the expense of their clubs success they ain’t.

It’s also not hypothetical - a salary cap in a sport where revenue increases year over year means that all the high earning clubs will hit the cap. Unless you’re talking about some “fake” cap - like it’s set at the highest earning clubs bill + 20% every year. The clubs that earn the most typically spend the most, a few exceptions here and there. So you know who’d thrive for a bit with a salary cap? Tottenham. One Nil to the Arsenal indeed

There is a reason that Champions League and World Cup keep increasing the number of participants. More games = more advertising slots on tv = bigger deals to sell.

A super league instantly reduces the amount of games all the big money teams play. Either you are playing with an 8 team league at most or you trying to recruit teams that are among the most successful in their domestic leagues (Atletico, Dortmund, Liverpool) to trade their domestic league status to become bottom table Super League cannon fodder. There is no economic incentive for any club outside the richest 6 to ever enter a Super League and in the long term the richest clubs still wouldn't make as much long term with just Super League broadcast rights.

Anyway you seem very convinced you are right here about the silly richest clubs league idea so no point debating. We can agree to disagree and see what happens.

I say you will never hear any club serious talk about a breakaway rich clubs league but another summer or two like the last one and things like wage cap will be debated throughout UEFA in the next 10 years.

Oh, also the amount of football fans that are not fans of the richest 6 far outnumbers the amount of fans of just Real, Barca, City, PSG, United and Bayern. United might have the most fans in the world, but United + City do not have more fans than the rest of the 18 PL teams put together (just Arsenal+Liverpool probably have more worldwide fans than United +City).

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

You can legally challenge UEFA on any rules they set. They still have to adhere to EU laws, although there is some, albeit limited, room for manoeuvre. No idea where a wage limit would sit in that regard, I'd imagine they could possibly tie it to revenue but I don't think they could outright define an amount that no club could surpass. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the matter could enlighten us.

But they aren't defining an amount that the club can spend. They simply stating an upper limit of yearly wages for their competition. The competition certainly has the legal right to define rules about who can enter the competition - The CL already has HG player rules.
Those are clearly legal so a UEFA wage cap would follow the same principle. The club can still spend whatever the feck they want, UEFA can just say great, you can't enter the CL though. I think some people just don't really understand laws very well. The richest clubs can't force UEFA to make the rules they want. Otherwise we wouldn't see a HG player rule.

 

[BobbyManc]

But they aren't defining an amount that the club can spend. They simply stating an upper limit of yearly wages for their competition. The competition certainly has the legal right to define rules about who can enter the competition - The CL already has HG player rules.
Those are clearly legal so a UEFA wage cap would follow the same principle. The club can still spend whatever the feck they want, UEFA can just say great, you can't enter the CL though. I think some people just don't really understand laws very well. The richest clubs can't force UEFA to make the rules they want. Otherwise we wouldn't see a HG player rule.

Yeah, seemingly you don't. UEFA cannot impose any rule they like just because it's their competition.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Yeah, seemingly you don't. UEFA cannot impose any rule they like just because it's their competition.

Ok then link me the law a wage cap would violate. Provide some proof there is anything to violate.

You can't even phrase things correct in a legal sense because a wage cap is not UEFA "forcing" or "telling" a club to do anything.

If someone wants to claim that there is a legal violation of some club's legal rights its actually on YOU to prove it. So go ahead and link to the statute a wage cap allegedly violates.

You would think if it was such a violation then all the NA leagues wouldn't be able to use them.

In fact if you actually think about it in practice, it wouldn't even stop big clubs spending over the wage limit if they really wanted. They could simply do what they do with the HG and just not register the same players for CL as domestic leagues.

There are definitely challenges to implementing a wage cap and trade-offs if its better but it being "illegal" is not one of them.

 

[BobbyManc]

Ok then link me the law a wage cap would violate. Provide some proof there is anything to violate.

You can't even phrase things correct in a legal sense because a wage cap is not UEFA "forcing" or "telling" a club to do anything.

If someone wants to claim that there is a legal violation of some club's legal rights its actually on YOU to prove it. So go ahead and link to the statute a wage cap allegedly violates.

You would think if it was such a violation then all the NA leagues wouldn't be able to use them.

I already stated I am not sure if a wage cap would violate wider laws, but I imagine there's a risk that it could depending on the intricacies of it. That's not my point though, my point was you seem to be under the impression UEFA can impose any rule they see fit, when that's simply untrue.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I already stated I am not sure if a wage cap would violate wider laws, but I imagine there's a risk that it could depending on the intricacies of it. That's not my point though, my point was you seem to be under the impression UEFA can impose any rule they see fit, when that's simply untrue.

When did I ever say that about "any" rule? Don't argue based on assumptions.

I will repeat my edit of the other post:

In fact if you actually think about it in practice, it wouldn't even stop big clubs spending over the wage limit if they really wanted. They could simply do what they do with the HG and just not register the same players for CL as domestic leagues.

There are definitely challenges to implementing a wage cap and trade-offs if its better than other systems but it being "illegal" is not one of them.

 

[Ecstatic]

Interesting, but individual player transfer values don't show the full scope of club spending. Unless you look at total amount spent this data is misleading. It shows the silly fees PSG are spending but City have signed 19 players under Guardiola alone in 18 months. Not to mention the fact they've spent the most of all Premiership clubs over the last 10 years.

Sure, they spent around 1.2 bn of euros in the last decade, 500 millions since Guardiola took over the team IIRC

The data isn't misleading: the picture just shows that 5-6 clubs can make very expensive acquisitions.

 

[padr81]

Hope we buy his whole squad and give them a job cleaning toilets although they'll probably down tools and run scared if Troy Deeney comes in.
Except Ozil, I like Ozil, great player when he's on his game.

 

[padr81]

The most expensive football transfers of all time - amounts in euros


Neymar - PSG- 222
Mbappe - PSG - 145+35=180
Coutinho - Barcelona - 120 + 40 = 160
Dembélé - Barcelona -105 + 40 =145
Pogba - United -105
Bale - Real Madrid - 101
CR7 - Real Madrid - 94
Higuain - Juventus - 90
Neymar - Barcelona - 86
Lukaku - Manchester United - 85
Van Dijk - Liverpool - 85
Luis Suarez - Barcelona -82
James - Real Madrid - 80
Morata - Chelsea - 79
Zidane - Real Madrid - 78
De Bruyne - City - 75
Di Maria - United - 75
Zlatan - Barcelona - 69
Diego Costa - Chelsea - 66
Kaka - Real Madrid - 65
Laporte - City - 65
Cavani - PSG -65
Aubamayeang - Arsenal - 63
Sterling - City- 63
David Luiz - PSG - 62
Di Maria - PSG - 62
Oscar - Shanghai - 60
Luis Figo - Real Madrid - 60
Torres - Chelsea - 59
Hulk - Shanghai - 59
Mendy - City - 58
Stones - City - 58
Walker - City - 57
Naby Keita -56
Crespo - Lazio - 55
Lacazette - Arsenal - 52
Buffon - Juventus- 52
Mangala - City - 52
Teixeira - Jiangsu Suning - 50
Bernardo Silva - City - 50
Martial - Manchester United - 49
Sigurdsson - Everton - 49
Vieiri - Inter - 49
Mendieta - Lazio - 48
Ozil - Arsenal - 47
Veron - Manchester United - 46
Ferdinand - Manchester United - 46
Ronaldo - Real Madrid - 46
Mata - Manchester United - 46
Douglas Costa - Juventus - 46
Benteke - Liverpool - 46
James Rodriguez - Monaco - 45
Joao Mario - Inter - 45
Granit Xhaka - 45
Tiemoue Bakayoko - 45
Vincenius Junior - 45
Nemanja Matic - 45
Leroy Sane - 44
Andriy Shevchenko
Robinho - Manchester City - 43
Radamel Falcao -43
Alexis Sanchez - 43
Rui Costa - 42
Javier Pastore - PSG -42
Thiago Silva- PSG -42
Jackson Martinez - 42
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - 42
Mohamed Salah - 42
Leonardo Bonucci - 42
Lilian Thuram -42
Corentin Tolisso -42
Andy Carroll - 41
Pavel Nedved - 41
Shkodran Mustafi - 41
Sadio Mane - 41
Roberto Firmino - 41
Marc Overmars - 41
David Villa - 40
Paulinho - 40
Radamel Falcao -40
Hulk - 40
Axel Witsel -40
Javi Martinez - 40
David Luiz - Chelsea - 40
Eden Hazard - 40
Fernandinho - 40
Federico Bernardeschi-40
Sergio Aguero - Manchester City - 40
Ederson - Manchester City - 40
Michy Batshuayi - 39
Antonio Rudiger- 39
Didier Drogba - 39
Michael Essien -38
Fernando Torres-38
Dimitar Berbatov-38
Gonzalo Higuain-38
Diego Costa-38
Eric Bailly-38
Mats Hummels-38
Andre Silva-38
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain-38
David Beckham-38
Luke Shaw-38
Jackson Martinez- 37
Filippo Inzaghi- 37
Wayne Rooney - 37
Edin Dzeko - 37
Mario Gotze - 37
Arturo Vidal - 37

You are missing a couple of City players mate. Dzeko, Sane and Fernandinho are in there too. I believe we're on that list 13 times, which makes sense as we only got to dine the top table when prices had already inflated.

City 13 players on there. PSG 8.

Interesting Man United have 13 players on there too. Given they bought a lot of those players before prices went mental I'd say thats a lot.

City and PSG's spending though has been in a far more condensed time period. So while inflation and our relative newness to the top of European football shopping have boosted prices I think both clubs have shelled out a hell of a lot in such a small time frame, something that only United and a couple of the biggest clubs can match.

Its also interesting Barca have 4 players above Cities highest and all were bought pretty recently despite them not being in the bracket of City, PSG and current United as throwing cash about.

 

[Ecstatic]

@padr81

Updated Table!

City + PSG = 22 of the top 100 most expensive players in the history of the game

 

[manunited1919]

Clubs like City and PSG who are supported by sovereign wealth and spend without justification or sustainability deserve no respect or plaudits, no matter what they win. At least when us, Real, Barca and others spend we've earned that right due to our commercial success, sustainability and popularity.

I would guess for them it’s a proven business model - like what they have done with Emirates Airlines etc. They know if they pump enough money into it they reach a point where they are self sustaining and can compete.

 

[RedorDead21]

I just think world class managers don't really exist today. Mou and Pep need to spend a ton of money before their managerial ability can start to show itself, they bring in new players regularly to combat poor player form or even injury with mixed results. I'd give SAF a good chance with the spurs team of mounting a serious challenge year in year out...or even with the resources at Arsenal if you gave him 3-4 seasons. I always think blaming cash in any field of life is just an excuse....don't blame your tools is what I've heard since I was a kid....especially when you have 11 guys out on a pitch...so much room for collective spirit to make the difference....I'm not saying Burley could win it but the likes of any of the top 4-5 with the right man in charge....can do it.