Barcelona - a lot of moaning about them and some praise

[The Taurean]

If Madrid are only brave enough to put one player in the opposition half, this sort of thing will happen a lot.

I laugh everytime I watch it. He didn't even start a striker

If not for the play acting, Barca would have walked away from this match with the respect of everyone watching it. Even if it was a draw. That's how truly great teams are. Having integrity to complement the talent.

 

[United87]

Depends which Madrid you are referring to, the Madrid that turned up in the Mestalla and turned this oh so wonderful Barca side over and created the better chances and played the more attack-minded football, is more entertaining than what Barca serve up week after week.

What you and all the pro-Barca folks are forgetting is that last night was a 1st leg of 2 at home, an away goal at this stage is priceless and Barca at home are tough enough to get past at the best of times without that added advantage, can you not see the logic in being concious of that or are you too busy drooling over Barca's 47 uninterupted passes, the end product of which is usually tha ball ending up back with Valdes or one of their featherweights hitting the deck like they've been shot? That isn't entertaining, that's mind-numbing.

Depends? I'm obviously discussing this match.

Nobodies defending Barcas disgraceful behavior. I'm not a fan a Barca I just like watching teams lay in a positive way.

 

[Irwin]

Same is true of teams that play Barca. They've certainly been battering all comers this season.

IMO the only teams that have looked good against them are teams that really go for it and try to force them onto the back foot. I really hope we do the same if/when we come up against them. Standing off and letting them have the ball is suicidal. They'll cut you open eventually.

I don't watch much La Liga, but their goal record indicates that they probably do dominate games normally.

But in this game they were defensive, not as defensive as Madrid obviously, but still defensive.

 

[antihenry]

So you like to see Stoke City's shithouse tactics shine through on a European Cup Semi-final? You don't want to see two sides going all out to attack eachother, to provide a spectacle?

Any team that will go all out to attack this Barcelona side will end up getting their ass handed to them. You as an Arsenal fan should know that better than most.
Go and watch the first 30 minutes of Arsenal vs Barca game at the Emirates from last season and try to count how many clear goalscoring chances the away team has had and how many times the home side managed to cross into the opponent's half of the pitch.

Football is about winning. If you can entertain while doing it it's definitely a plus, but they don't give away trophies for that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't watch much La Liga, but their goal record indicates that they probably do dominate games normally.

But in this game they were defensive, not as defensive as Madrid obviously, but still defensive.

Madrid's half was incredibly congested because of the complete lack of ambition shown by their manager. Even a team that can pass the ball as intricately as Barca finds it hard to play in one half of a pitch that has 21 players running around inside it.

They were obviously trying to draw Madrid forward with all their possession football in their own half. I guess you could call that defensive but there was an at least an intention to attack.

It sort of reminded me of a boxing match between two counter-punchers, where nobody wants to throw the first punch. The key difference for me was that Barca were at least coming forwards, Madrid were back-pedalling frantically around the ring.

 

[Snow]

Barca were away from home and controlled the whole game! Barca had the better chances throughout the whole game too. Anyone with eyes could see that.

The only point I was making was that Barcelona weren't trying to play attacking football. When someone says "try to play football" they already have a mental picture in their head which I can't dispute because I don't know what that picture is.

Fact is that both teams looked to keep their goal clean rather than score. That was the number one priority.

Before the sending off Barcelona didn't have goal chances. They had shots from outside the box. 4 in total that half. Just as many as Real. Best chance was Xavi's shot which wasn't a big danger.

That's the only thing I'm saying. Quite obvious that Real would sit back, soak up pressure and counter attack. But since there wasn't any attack in the first place there wasn't anything to counter. Hence the incredibly boring display of football.

 

[WireRed]

Depends? I'm obviously discussing this match.

Nobodies defending Barcas disgraceful behavior. I'm not a fan a Barca I just like watching teams lay in a positive way.

Yeah, so with the circumstances I outlined(aswell as missing their best CB in Carvalho), do you not see why Madrid would have been concious of not conceding first and foremost?

We all like positive, entertaining football, but do tell me how Barca's play fits that description? They play dominant football and at times don't look like creating a chance, that creates a bland football match as far as I'm concerned, which they are just as responsible for as the other team and their supposed "negative" tactics.

Barca play a way that suits them, tell me how that's any different to any other side? They don't look to entertain, they look to pass, pass, pass and wear the opposition down, that's just as cynical as defending deep and waiting for chances to counter.

 

[Snow]

If Madrid are only brave enough to put one player in the opposition half, this sort of thing will happen a lot.

These things normally just happen when you play your way out of pressure. He was the only one pressuring and therefor you have a gif of it.

Out of the first 15 minutes, 12 of them took part in Barca's half (roughly). That's obviously not because of their attacking football because we know they're good at attacking and we know they could have gotten the ball on the other side if the wanted.

Home or away doesn't matter. It's Barcelona ffs. Can't beat them unless you neutralize their biggest strength. How else did Madrid win the cup.

It's not any more defensive work than Arsenal showed. Difference is Madrid is just way better at this defensive work than Arsenal are. And Barcelona knows it.

 

[TheHorse'sMouth]

Any team that will go all out to attack this Barcelona side will end up getting their ass handed to them. You as an Arsenal fan should know that better than most.
Go and watch the first 30 minutes of Arsenal vs Barca game at the Emirates from last season and try to count how many clear goalscoring chances the away team has had and how many times the home side managed to cross into the opponent's half of the pitch.

Football is about winning. If you can entertain while doing it it's definitely a plus, but they don't give away trophies for that.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that Madrid has the most expensive squad assembled in the history of the game, and still resorted to the tactics that they did. We deserved to go out when we did, we showed no ambition at the Camp Nou this season and were rightly eliminated. So will Madrid when they eventually go. Playing the way they did, just played right into Barca's hands. You aren't going to get away with cynical challenge after cynical challenge the whole game..

 

[United87]

The only point I was making was that Barcelona weren't trying to play attacking football. When someone says "try to play football" they already have a mental picture in their head which I can't dispute because I don't know what that picture is.

Fact is that both teams looked to keep their goal clean rather than score. That was the number one priority.

Before the sending off Barcelona didn't have goal chances. They had shots from outside the box. 4 in total that half. Just as many as Real. Best chance was Xavi's shot which wasn't a big danger.

That's the only thing I'm saying. Quite obvious that Real would sit back, soak up pressure and counter attack. But since there wasn't any attack in the first place there wasn't anything to counter. Hence the incredibly boring display of football.

I will concede Barca weren't exactly gung ho, but I still say they were the only team with any sort of attacking intent.

 

[Snow]

Madrid's half was incredibly congested because of the complete lack of ambition shown by their manager. Even a team that can pass the ball as intricately as Barca finds it hard to play in one half of a pitch that has 21 players running around inside it.

They were obviously trying to draw Madrid forward with all their possession football in their own half. I guess you could call that defensive but there was an at least an intention to attack.

It sort of reminded me of a boxing match between two counter-punchers, where nobody wants to throw the first punch. The key difference for me was that Barca were at least coming forwards, Madrid were back-pedalling frantically around the ring.

In boxing you get points for trying. You get points for controlling the ring in most fighting sports. You don't in football. Therefor there's no possible way of winning a boxing match where no one throws a punch. But in football you can win that way.

 

[United87]

Yeah, so with the circumstances I outlined(aswell as missing their best CB in Carvalho), do you not see why Madrid would have been concious of not conceding first and foremost?

We all like positive, entertaining football, but do tell me how Barca's play fits that description? They play dominant football and at times don't look like creating a chance, that creates a bland football match as far as I'm concerned, which they are just as responsible for as the other team and their supposed "negative" tactics.

Barca play a way that suits them, tell me how that's any different to any other side? They don't look to entertain, they look to pass, pass, pass and wear the opposition down, that's just as cynical as defending deep and waiting for chances to counter.

I can't explain how Barca are positive I just believe they are and so do many other football fans. Of course I can understand Madrid's tactics, but at home, against their biggest rivals, in their biggest game in a decade they never threatened Barca.

 

[Irwin]

Madrid's half was incredibly congested because of the complete lack of ambition shown by their manager. Even a team that can pass the ball as intricately as Barca finds it hard to play in one half of a pitch that has 21 players running around inside it.

Nah, I don't buy that. Like I say, a lot of teams park the bus against United, that doesn't stop us from passing it around in the opposition half, crosses flying in, shots coming in from all angles.

They were obviously trying to draw Madrid forward with all their possession football in their own half. I guess you could call that defensive but there was an at least an intention to attack.

It sort of reminded me of a boxing match between two counter-punchers, where nobody wants to throw the first punch. The key difference for me was that Barca were at least coming forwards, Madrid were back-pedalling frantically around the ring.

Yeah, they were more ambitious than Madrid, but they definitely didn't dominate the game. As I said in another thread, Madrid were in a better position after 60mins than Arsenal who were 1-0 down and should have been 3 or 4. Mourinho's tactics can't really be criticized too much if we accept that in a CL semi, winning is more important than playing attacking football.

My main issue is that Barca resorted to cheating. Yes, the game was fkin boring, but I'm more annoyed at the diving, playacting and hounding the ref, which in this game was mostly from Barca.

 

[kouroux]

Nah, I don't buy that. Like I say, a lot of teams park the bus against United, that doesn't stop us from passing it around in the opposition half, crosses flying in, shots coming in from all angles.




Yeah, they were more ambitious than Madrid, but they definitely didn't dominate the game. As I said in another thread, Madrid were in a better position after 60mins than Arsenal who were 1-0 down and should have been 3 or 4. Mourinho's tactics can't really be criticized too much if we accept that in a CL semi, winning is more important than playing attacking football.

My main issue is that Barca resorted to cheating. Yes, the game was fkin boring, but I'm more annoyed at the diving, playacting and hounding the ref, which in this game was mostly from Barca.

A lot of the teams United has faced or faces on a regular basis in the PL cannot park the bus as efficiently as Mourinho's team.

 

[Snow]

A lot of the teams United has faced or faces on a regular basis in the PL cannot park the bus as efficiently as Mourinho's team.

Exactly. But that doesn't mean they should get abuse for being too good at it. So good that the opposition can't score. It's their choice. It's how they'd see themselves progress.

 

[WireRed]

I can't explain how Barca are positive I just believe they are and so do many other football fans. Of course I can understand Madrid's tactics, but at home, against their biggest rivals, in their biggest game in a decade they never threatened Barca.

There you go, if Barca were this wonderful attacking unit, playing football in an entertaining manner, you wouldn't have any trouble outlining their attacking intent or methods of play. See, when you cut through the crap you realise we are dealing with preconceptions and intangibles, mostly promoted by this super-hypocrite of a football club.

Has it not occured to you that Madrid found it difficult to impose themselves because aswell as their usual hogging of the ball routine, Barca decided to play deep and not commit the full-backs forward? In other words, they too played a dour, cynical game but still get trumpeted as the greatest exponents of attacking football, the saviours of the beautiful game, yada, yada, yada. It's all nonsense fuelled by the snobbish attitude of FC Barcelona and how it has spread to the neutrals.

Last night wasn't a victory for football, it was a victory for gamesmanship.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Exactly. But that doesn't mean they should get abuse for being too good at it. So good that the opposition can't score. It's their choice. It's how they'd see themselves progress.

The difference being that teams who park the bus against United have no other choice, they're playing with such an inferior squad. When you've spent as much money as Madrid have these last few years isn't it a bit embarassing to go out there and play like Fulham or Blackburn?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The difference being that teams who park the bus against United have no other choice, they're playing with such an inferior squad. When you've spent as much money as Madrid have these last few years isn't it a bit embarassing to go out there and play like Fulham or Blackburn?

But Madrid spent that amount to be near our level IMO. They were well below us before that. So by spending that money they've put themselves closer to us or at par depending what view one has. I don't think they necessarily spent that sum of money starting out at our level. Not talking about whether the money was well spent or not of course.

And we'd sit back as well. Only difference being we would come away from the match with our heads held up high unlike the two Spanish teams.

 

[United87]

There you go, if Barca were this wonderful attacking unit, playing football in an entertaining manner, you wouldn't have any trouble outlining their attacking intent or methods of play. See, when you cut through the crap you realise we are dealing with preconceptions and intangibles, mostly promoted by this super-hypocrite of a football club.

Has it not occured to you that Madrid found it difficult to impose themselves because aswell as their usual hogging of the ball routine, Barca decided to play deep and not commit the full-backs forward? In other words, they too played a dour, cynical game but still get trumpeted as the greatest exponents of attacking football, the saviours of the beautiful game, yada, yada, yada. It's all nonsense fuelled by the snobbish attitude of FC Barcelona and how it has spread to the neutrals.

Last night wasn't a victory for football, it was a victory for gamesmanship.

I can't explain it because attacking intent is intangible. You can just see it with your eyes, just watch Barca's 5-0 over Madrid or Barca versus Arsenal.

 

[adexkola]

Of course you can't explain yourself, you've been spouting bollocks all day

 

[FranklyVulgar]

The only point I was making was that Barcelona weren't trying to play attacking football. When someone says "try to play football" they already have a mental picture in their head which I can't dispute because I don't know what that picture is.

Fact is that both teams looked to keep their goal clean rather than score. That was the number one priority.

Before the sending off Barcelona didn't have goal chances. They had shots from outside the box. 4 in total that half. Just as many as Real. Best chance was Xavi's shot which wasn't a big danger.

That's the only thing I'm saying. Quite obvious that Real would sit back, soak up pressure and counter attack. But since there wasn't any attack in the first place there wasn't anything to counter. Hence the incredibly boring display of football.

Yup, clearly Peps tactics. Take away Madrids one strength, the pace and counter attacking ability. Madrid had no plan B for this. Or was Adebayor the plan B?

I think it was very smart from Guardiola, results in a shite game but you can't really fault it.

 

[WireRed]

I can't explain it because attacking intent is intangible. You can just see it with your eyes, just watch Barca's 5-0 over Madrid or Barca versus Arsenal.

Hold on, didn't you just say we are talking about last nights game? A game in which Barca were either not good enough to create chances against 11 men or in which they didn't play in as attacking a mindset as many like to believe they do. Either way, it shows up a massive flaw in the claims that they are the pioneers of entertaining football and "the best team in history" as so many are fond of referring to them as.

The beauty of football lies in it's diversity in styles, cultures, tactics, and ideologies. There is no such thing as a correct way of playing, all there is is what we see Barca and every other team do...play to their strengths and to what gameplan suits them.

Barca play dominant rather than attacking football, there is a difference and it's highlighted when teams play them intelligently and refuse to bend over at the first time of asking.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yup, clearly Peps tactics. Take away Madrids one strength, the pace and counter attacking ability. Madrid had no plan B for this. Or was Adebayor the plan B?

I think it was very smart from Guardiola, results in a shite game but you can't really fault it.

I don't know about that FV. Madrid seemed to be growing in the second half and Barca started giving the ball away needlessly, so I'm not sure Pep's tactics were working at all. Could have gone either way in the last half hour IMO. More likely Barca's but that's just because they are the better team anyway.

 

[United87]

Of course you can't explain yourself, you've been spouting bollocks all day

 

[Niall]

How to dive & cheat like Barca & Real:

 

[United87]

Hold on, didn't you just say we are talking about last nights game? A game in which Barca were either not good enough to create chances against 11 men or in which they didn't play in as attacking a mindset as many like to believe they do. Either way, it shows up a massive flaw in the claims that they are the pioneers of entertaining football and "the best team in history" as so many are fond of referring to them as.

The beauty of football lies in it's diversity in styles, cultures, tactics, and ideologies. There is no such thing as a correct way of playing, all there is is what we see Barca and every other team do...play to their strengths and to what gameplan suits them.

Barca play dominant rather than attacking football, there is a difference and it's highlighted when teams play them intelligently and refuse to bend over at the first time of asking.

They were playing against Real's 10 men behind the ball. They were playing against their opponents most important game in a decade, at the Bernabéu and they were the more attacking team. As I said already I believe the right way to play should at least entail ambition to attack.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

How to dive & cheat like Barca & Real:

I bow down to that. Utterly brilliant. And an apt thread for it too!

 

[Irwin]

A lot of the teams United has faced or faces on a regular basis in the PL cannot park the bus as efficiently as Mourinho's team.

tbh you are right, Mourinho sure knows how to stifle a game.

I still think that Barca could have attacked them a bit more, especially considering they are supposed to be by far the best attacking team in Europe. It looked to me like they were getting frustrated at not being able to do anything with their possession and decided that because Madrid were playing 'anti-football', they would also play anti-football and cheat. IMO that is a lot worse than being overly defensive and boring.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

I don't know about that FV. Madrid seemed to be growing in the second half and Barca started giving the ball away needlessly, so I'm not sure Pep's tactics were working at all. Could have gone either way in the last half hour IMO. More likely Barca's but that's just because they are the better team anyway.

Ideally thats what Barcelona would want. Draw them out, if Madrid commit men then the space will open for the rest. Of course the red changed the match and Messi changed everything.

I think it was clearly the objective of Barcelona not to get hit on the break. Mourinho didnt care to win the match, he cared not to conciede and i think Barcelona think they always have a chance to score and cared not to give away a goal too. Turns out when teams do that the game is awful surprisingly. It's also a bit of first leg syndrome. Cagey affair, nobody wants to lose a tie in the first leg.

 

[WireRed]

They were playing against Real's 10 men behind the ball. They were playing against their opponents most important game in a decade, at the Bernabéu and they were the more attacking team. As I said already I believe the right way to play should at least entail ambition to attack.

And? The fact they needed to get them down a man to start creating openings is a sad indictment of their creativity and ability to come up with something different to break down such stubborn opponents.

They showed very little ambition to attack Madrid at all, they spent more time racking up their possession stats than actually going forward with any purpose. That is the nut and bolt of it, having more of the ball does not necessarily mean you spent more time attacking, far from it in their case.

Their gameplan is to wear the opponents down rather than look to score when in possession, that is just as cynical as parking the bus. I can't be the only one that sees their play for what it is surely? Dominant? Yes. Enthralling? Not one bit.

 

[Rado_N]

Can't embed the video because it's not on youtube, and it's more than a little shameful that this has been posted on Madrid's official site considering how far from innocence they are on the subject but there is a video showing a lot of the Barca antics on the link below, as well as a slowed down (and laughably repeatedly rewound) clip which seems to show Alves wasn't even touched by Pepe. For me his rolling around, fake agony and 'let me off the stretcher I'm fine' bullshit was the worst incident of the night.

Real Madrid C.F. - Official Web Site - Television images show that Pepe did not touch Alves' leg

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can't embed the video because it's not on youtube, and it's more than a little shameful that this has been posted on Madrid's official site considering how far from innocence they are on the subject but there is a video showing a lot of the Barca antics on the link below, as well as a slowed down (and laughably repeatedly rewound) clip which seems to show Alves wasn't even touched by Pepe. For me his rolling around, fake agony and 'let me off the stretcher I'm fine' bullshit was the worst incident of the night.

Real Madrid C.F. - Official Web Site - Television images show that Pepe did not touch Alves' leg

Bit of a random point but one of Chelsea's youth team players was stretchered off with his leg in an inflatable brace recently, before sheepishly asking to come back on a few moments later. It is possible to think you're seriously hurt only to recover shortly afterwards.

Knowing Alves, though, it's hard to give him the benefit of any doubt.

 

[Rado_N]

Bit of a random point but one of Chelsea's youth team players was stretchered off with his leg in an inflatable brace recently, before sheepishly asking to come back on a few moments later. It is possible to think you're seriously hurt only to recover shortly afterwards.

Knowing Alves, though, it's hard to give him the benefit of any doubt.

Indeed, he knew full well what he was doing.

 

[adexkola]

Rio's now a news source

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Can't embed the video because it's not on youtube, and it's more than a little shameful that this has been posted on Madrid's official site considering how far from innocence they are on the subject but there is a video showing a lot of the Barca antics on the link below, as well as a slowed down (and laughably repeatedly rewound) clip which seems to show Alves wasn't even touched by Pepe. For me his rolling around, fake agony and 'let me off the stretcher I'm fine' bullshit was the worst incident of the night.

Real Madrid C.F. - Official Web Site - Television images show that Pepe did not touch Alves' leg

Is this the one?

 

[VoetbalWizard]

Can't embed the video because it's not on youtube, and it's more than a little shameful that this has been posted on Madrid's official site considering how far from innocence they are on the subject but there is a video showing a lot of the Barca antics on the link below, as well as a slowed down (and laughably repeatedly rewound) clip which seems to show Alves wasn't even touched by Pepe. For me his rolling around, fake agony and 'let me off the stretcher I'm fine' bullshit was the worst incident of the night.

Real Madrid C.F. - Official Web Site - Television images show that Pepe did not touch Alves' leg

i remember ronnie going studs up sliding very high against city (i think), about 4-5 years ago and even though he didn't connect (the player jumped over), he got a red.

You can get a red for intent. Pepe went dangerously high with studs up.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

rioferdy5 Rio Ferdinand
This diving is a joke/embarrassing. When Pedro watches that do u think he'll think what was I doing!? Rugby players must laugh at football!

I thought both teams antics last night were equally disgusting, ruined what should have been a great game.

I don't buy into this attitude that Barcelona's cheating was justified due to Real's tactics either.

Hopefully we'll get a strong referee in the final, should we get there.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Indeed, he knew full well what he was doing.

Aye, just seen the video. There was no contact.

Mind you, that doesn't mean it's not a red card.

One thing that video does do is make the challenge look worse than I first thought. If Alves didn't pull out the way he did it could have been a nasty injury. Studs showing, leg locked straight, coming in over the top of the ball. Not nice at all. Even the expression on his face is incriminating. Definite yellow card, red just about deserved.

 

[johnmufc]

The only thing disgusting about yesterday's game was Mourinho's tactics. His tactics in the past 2 years' Champions League Semifinals have been cowardly and disgraceful to the beautiful game. I pray that he never becomes our manager.

 

[MrMarcello]

Because SAF has never parked the bus against Barcelona.