I don't get how that equates to "spot on"... you admit the tactics were the issue, not Hernandez as he was doing the exact job you'd expect of him. The comment about how Berba would be slated "for playing like that" is absolute tosh of the highest order.
Berbatov | Fulham player
- Thread starter SAred
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don't get how that equates to "spot on"... you admit the tactics were the issue, not Hernandez as he was doing the exact job you'd expect of him. The comment about how Berba would be slated "for playing like that" is absolute tosh of the highest order.
Agreed totally but with hindsight. I think 90% of reds would've picked that team before the game.
Berbatov's attitude since he has arrived has been fantastic. Only an idiot would suggest otherwise.
Berba has rarely complained despite being dropped big game after big game.
He has always just sat on the bench hoping his team does well.
His attitude has been completely exemplary.
He has always just sat on the bench hoping his team does well.
His attitude has been completely exemplary.
True. I am just wondering on why Hernandez started since 1. We needed strength in midfield 2. We don't exactly have a Zidane in midfield to feed Hernandez with good passes in the penalty area
For me, the starting XI was spot on, got no complaints with that however the decision to pick Owen over Berbatov was quite strange.
agreed.
It wasn't that strange. If it had stayed at 2-1 I'd have wanted Owen coming on with 10 to go over Berba.
Agreed. But we needed someone to hold the ball in the final three, and Berbatov would've been great at this.
Well it didn't work last time (the bringing on Berba to hold the ball up bit) and I doubt it would've worked again, we got killed in midfield, I really doubt Berba would've had much chance to affect anything. In short I think we're clutching at straws.
Tbh I also think we're. We were just outplayed by a disgustingly good team.
True. I want to cry.
It is definitely true to say that had Berbatov performed to a similar level than Hernández did on Saturday he'd be crucified. Though of course they play different roles, Berbatov has played up top on his own more than once and been utterly isolated and been panned, which is why I find it particularly interesting that Johnno brought up the isolation issue. Though he is correct in this instance, it's almost as if he's applying different standards to different players, as I can remember him being less than complimentary about some Berbatov performances in a 4-5-1 where he's got practically no service.
On Saturday, Hernández ran offside what, five times in the first half? I think it was Bolton when Berba came on at half-time and was caught offside three times and by the third everyone around me was calling him all sorts. There wasn't much more than a murmur after Hernández's fifth.
Different players get different treatment from the fans, no doo' 'bou tha'. Fletcher's and Anderson's wayward passing is accepted more than Carrick's for example. I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, just that it is. Had Berbatov played in the same role as Hernández and been caught offside as much as well as being a bit sluggish on the ball, there would have been people demanding he be thrown out.
Obviously there's various factors behind the reaction to Hernández - he's likable, has had a brilliant season (both can be applied to Berba), is young an' learnin', was still a threat in behind I thought, etc. And of course that we were playing possibly the greatest football team there's ever been.
As for Berbatov leaving, I'd almost be relieved. For purely footballing reasons I wouldn't want it, but I'm a bit fed up of watching United and wanting one player to score a bit more than the rest. I don't think he should go though - how good was it knowing in the run-in we had 3 of the top 5 or 6 strikers in the league? If he does go, I trust that he'll be replaced by a striker of equal quality, and thank him for the memories - the 'ohhhh god' touches, the flicks, the composure, the words and the goals. I think history will look upon him kinder than the present does. 48 goals in 97 starts and 31 substitute appearances is a very good record, and a strike rate not matched by the majority of United strikers.
On Saturday, Hernández ran offside what, five times in the first half? I think it was Bolton when Berba came on at half-time and was caught offside three times and by the third everyone around me was calling him all sorts. There wasn't much more than a murmur after Hernández's fifth.
Different players get different treatment from the fans, no doo' 'bou tha'. Fletcher's and Anderson's wayward passing is accepted more than Carrick's for example. I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, just that it is. Had Berbatov played in the same role as Hernández and been caught offside as much as well as being a bit sluggish on the ball, there would have been people demanding he be thrown out.
Obviously there's various factors behind the reaction to Hernández - he's likable, has had a brilliant season (both can be applied to Berba), is young an' learnin', was still a threat in behind I thought, etc. And of course that we were playing possibly the greatest football team there's ever been.
As for Berbatov leaving, I'd almost be relieved. For purely footballing reasons I wouldn't want it, but I'm a bit fed up of watching United and wanting one player to score a bit more than the rest. I don't think he should go though - how good was it knowing in the run-in we had 3 of the top 5 or 6 strikers in the league? If he does go, I trust that he'll be replaced by a striker of equal quality, and thank him for the memories - the 'ohhhh god' touches, the flicks, the composure, the words and the goals. I think history will look upon him kinder than the present does. 48 goals in 97 starts and 31 substitute appearances is a very good record, and a strike rate not matched by the majority of United strikers.
So we would have had more of the ball deep with Rooney and Berb...who would be up to finish it? Rooney would be dropping deep left and Berb would be throwing his arm at Nani in frustration (even though Nani was on the bench)...
Feeky, if Berba played like Hernandez (always on the last defender looking to run in behind) he wouldn't get slated at all after a game with zero service, but.... he doesn't, he's a player that wants to get involved and was bought for creativity.
Therefore this argument holds no weight mate, it's just a little silly and petty, trying to make out that United fans have a hidden or not so hidden dislike of one of our own.
Even you surely have to admit now that Berbatov has been a bit of a let down, even if not totally his own fault, if SAF doesn't even have his record signing on the bench for such a game then something is wrong.
Therefore this argument holds no weight mate, it's just a little silly and petty, trying to make out that United fans have a hidden or not so hidden dislike of one of our own.
Even you surely have to admit now that Berbatov has been a bit of a let down, even if not totally his own fault, if SAF doesn't even have his record signing on the bench for such a game then something is wrong.
You want one player to score more than others Feekeh?
Are you a United fan or just a Berbatov-fan?
Are you a United fan or just a Berbatov-fan?
Get a grip there buddy you make him out to be a legend leaving the club. Save your compliments for the currently active Scholes retiring thread. A real Utd legend.
I just say I am very relieved his career with us did not turn into a complete disaster and I am very thankful for his 1st 6 months of the season. He put in some super performances.
But it just was never meant to be
Why do you want him to score over the rest of the players by the way?
That's a very good post.
Like I said, Berbatov has been made play in the role before, in a 4-5-1 and being instructed not to drop deep.
Even if we leave out the specific role, what do you think the reaction would have been had Berba been caught offside as much?
no doubt about that
29 goals + 14 assists, i.e. 43 directly contributed goals in open play for titles No 18 and No 19. For comparision, Rooney has contributed to 41 goals, including those scored and assisted from set pieces. It would be beyond daft to try to dispute Berbatov's significance in the Prem.
In the CL the situation is different. But at least in the PL he has significantly contributed to our success.
https://www.redcafe.net/f8/happy-birthday-feeky-redkaos-331352/
Good thread for Birthday wishes Johnno
It wouldn't be great because that's not his game, we all know it's Hernandez's game to play on the last defender. If Berbatov played like that then he'd get equally as much "leeway".
https://www.redcafe.net/f8/happy-birthday-feeky-redkaos-331352/
Good thread for Birthday wishes Johnno
Already ahead of you mate!
No point going over and over it now. Berba wouldn't have made much of a difference . Our midfield isn't good enough full stop.
It'd be absolute madness selling him
At least I've admitted it - I think it applies to a lot of fans. It's more a subconscious thing with me and it's definitely not something I'd be thinking of when we're on the attack, but I think I first realised it when the ball went into the net from a goalmouth scramble and my second thought - after 'get in!', was 'did Berba get it?'. Like I said, I don't want to feel like this. Nick Hornby wrote in 'Fever Pitch' about how he enjoyed England wins less when Bryan Robson wasn't playing - I've never gone that far at all, but I share some of his feelings on how a liking for an individual player can perhaps be a distraction.
I don't think it's particularly a revelation, it's just something a lot of people are reluctant to admit. I think if you polled those on here about a) their favourite player and b) would they prefer if this player scored a bit more than others, the majority would say yes.
When one spends so much time debating an issue (it's possibly the United issue, after the Glazers possibly that I've spend most time debating with fellow fans about), I think it's only natural that they feel a little more pleased when something that helps their argument occurs.
I'm waiting until the Scholes retirement is confirmed before I begin to gush. Believe me - Scholes is one of my favourite ever players, I refuse to talk about his retirement until it's confirmed, the thought of it makes me too sad. I simply said re: Berba if he goes I thank him for the memories, I never claimed he was a United legend. Odd response.
Actually quite a bit of Berbatov's game involves playing on the line of offside/onside, especially this season. He drops deep yes, but when we're attacking he'll often be the furthest player forward, and he gets caught offside quite a bit, and likewise gets goals from it too.
ironically we were beaten because we couldn't retain possession or pass water and yet one of our best ball players doesn't make the bench
Why's that? He didn't even make the bench for the final.
SAF obviously sees Hernandez and Rooney as his main 2, if he buys Young he will have another player capable of playing in the hole, why does he need Berba?
"Madness" is the wrong word, I can understand many not wanting to sell him after his contribution to this PL season but "madness"... get a grip.
GB, he came on quite early last time... it didn't fecking help one bit.
We got beat because the Barca midfield + Messi is just a lot fecking better than ours.
It's a good point but Arsenal play retaining football and we have played without Berby in the starting line-up since early 2009.
Yeah I'm not sure if Berbatov would have made a difference. I think perhaps with his hold-up play he is better suited to playing Barca than Hernández, and I spoke about the possibility of playing Berba and attempting to bypass the midfield the way Chelsea do every time they play them. But in reality Hernández was pretty much undroppable, and Barca would have still have found a way to get midfield control, it's the best midfield I've ever seen.
What happens if Rooney or Hernandez get injured? We play one of them and Ashley Young!?! Well that might stave off relegation, maybe.
Berbatov's the best striker in England - Ferguson made a massive mistake not putting him in the squad - bloke got the best hold-up play of anyone in the squad. Hernandez was basically Teflon.
From a business point of view you don't sell someone who cost you 30million odd just after he starts repaying you in spates and has transitioned into the team so well.
What Berbatov is rumoured to be doing is not the same as what Tevez did - he played up to the fans, he repeatedly made comments in the media about how he was 'unloved' and 'badly treated' for not playing enough despite making just 6 less PL starts than Berbatov this season (and 3 less PL appearances) while playing considerably worse for the entirety of the season. And Tevez was played in the CL final, Berbatov wasn't even in the squad and no matter what you think of Berbatov anyone can understand how that's a massive kick in the balls. Tevez also talked about rubbing it in Sir Alex's face, and went to our rivals. No matter how Berbatov leaves this club, it won't be with half as much controversy.
I personally don't disagree with him being left out of the team that strongly; he never really worked himself back into form (or had a chance to), his performance against Blackpool certainly didn't help (not Owen getting his goal) and we couldn't have matched them in midfield without Rooney dropping back and he's not as suited to the role of being isolated and having few touches. I can definitely understand Owen being there, I am surprised we couldn't fit both in though.
If Rooney's out of form or injured - as he has been every season for a period of at least a month - the only options we have are a 22 year old who could easily have a tougher second season, a 20 year old who's started just 2 league games for us and a 31 year old who's started just 6 PL games for us, none of whom who are half as effective in the build-up just yet.
No matter what way you look at it that's a huge risk. Sir Alex has never been afraid to take a risk and trust his young players but I'd find this very surprising, with Neville, VDS and Hargreaves already leaving and Scholes possibly doing the same it would seem logical that he'd want to keep Berbatov with his experience here to complement the other young players (and more specifically strikers). If Berbatov wants out there's nothing we can do about that but I've not the impression he does.
If he does leave I'll be disappointed, disappointed that we could rarely (if ever) marry his best form with the best form of the club, disappointed that after finally proving he is capable of being 'a Manchester United player' that he's been shipped off, but primarily disappointed that he simply hasn't lived up to the (justifiably high) expectations of every single one of us. I still think he's staying and has got another big role to play next year.
I think some people think he would have helped us retain the ball a lot better because he does pull deep and does involve himself unlike Chicharito.
When Berbatov's played as the lone striker, told to stay up top, offer himself as an option and not involve himself hugely, and then been isolated, he has been criticised. People have blamed Berbatov's lack of movement for his inability to get involved rather than the lack of service, at times.
Watching him on this bus, he doesn't strike me as the kind of player who doesn't want to be there and would rather be elsewhere. Looks like he's loving it.
On another note, Emile Dantchev, his agent, has scoffed at the "nonsense" claims that he stormed away from Wembley.
On another note, Emile Dantchev, his agent, has scoffed at the "nonsense" claims that he stormed away from Wembley.
So if Rooney and Berb both played and dropped deep and then found a way through the Barca midfield, who'd have been there to get the ball with no forward striker?
Only thing worth commenting on, Berba would've made feck ALL difference, Barca are simply better than us.
Green smiley faces.
Based on that you'd wonder why United even bothered making the trip down to London. I'd say you'd make a heck of a leader, Sharky
Hey? The green smilies were all about you're view of Berba, not the United team? Are you a bit slow Wes?
You also slagged off Hernandez in there, good work. And you also think that without Berba and one of Hernandez or Rooney we'd just be safe from relegation.
Good leader.
I'm presuming you're aware that our goal came from Rooney coming forward from deep and Hernandez has little involvement?