Berbatov | Fulham player

KM said:
Only a numpty would say otherwise.
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wtf? seriously?

Let's break this down and see who's the "numpty"

* I agree that he was a big part of our early season form and helped keep us in touch up until xmas.

* I disagree that he "rescued" our season


You then claim that " it is a FACT that we wouldn't have won the league without him".

Clairvoyant are we? or do you have no idea what on earth a FACT is?

We don't even know if we'd have won the league without Ronaldo's 42 goals in 07-08 do we? Unless some in here have divine powers?

numpty: Urban Dictionary: numpty
 
Sharky7 said:
wtf? seriously?

Let's break this down and see who's the "numpty"

* I agree that he was a big part of our early season form and helped keep us in touch up until xmas.

* I disagree that he "rescued" our season


You then claim that " it is a FACT that we wouldn't have won the league without him".

Clairvoyant are we? or do you have no idea what on earth a FACT is?

We don't even know if we'd have won the league without Ronaldo's 42 goals in 07-08 do we? Unless some in here have divine powers?

numpty: Urban Dictionary: numpty
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You aren't Johnno back from the dead are you ?
 
EricaNo7 said:
You aren't Johnno back from the dead are you ?
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Ah ha, the usual, don't answer the argument brigade. Just call someone Johnno or a Tevez lover, that'll detract from the fact that you're talking complete shite.

Difference with me and Johnno is that I think Berba played a good part last year, I just don't think he "rescued" anything and I personally believe we'd have won the league had Hernandez been the main man from the start of the year too. Is that sooooooo crazy :rolleyes:

I also disagreed that being a match winner vs. the scousers was comparable with scoring a CL final winner, am I wrong there too?

In fact, what the hell is your argument?
 
Sharky7 said:
wtf? seriously?

Let's break this down and see who's the "numpty"

* I agree that he was a big part of our early season form and helped keep us in touch up until xmas.

* I disagree that he "rescued" our season


You then claim that " it is a FACT that we wouldn't have won the league without him".

Clairvoyant are we? or do you have no idea what on earth a FACT is?

We don't even know if we'd have won the league without Ronaldo's 42 goals in 07-08 do we? Unless some in here have divine powers?

numpty: Urban Dictionary: numpty
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It's not a big claim to make that we wouldn't have won the league without him.
 
Sharky7 said:
Ah ha, the usual, don't answer the argument brigade. Just call someone Johnno or a Tevez lover, that'll detract from the fact that you're talking complete shite.

Difference with me and Johnno is that I think Berba played a good part last year, I just don't think he "rescued" anything and I personally believe we'd have won the league had Hernandez been the main man from the start of the year too. Is that sooooooo crazy :rolleyes:

I also disagreed that being a match winner vs. the scousers was comparable with scoring a CL final winner, am I wrong there too?

In fact, what the hell is your argument?
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Yes it's crazy to some extent particularly as players need time to settle in when they're coming from a foreign league.
 
KM said:
We wouldn't have won the title without him, it's a fact. If we would've relied on Hernandez, then we would've surely done worse as his overall game play wasn't that great in the starting and he needed time to settle in the team.
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You are talking utter crap:

Take away Hernandez's goals from the start of last season until the end of December and we'd be 6 points worse off in the Premier League and 2 points worse off in the CL.

Take away Berbatov's goals from the start up until end of December we'd be 5 points worse off in the Premier League.

So in actual fact Hernandez's goals were more important to the team, whilst he only started 9 games in comparison to Berbatov's 18. But yes, Hernandez needed aeons to settle in; don't let the facts get in the way of a deluded assertion.
 
KM said:
Yes it's crazy to some extent particularly as players need time to settle in when they're coming from a foreign league.
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Oh yeah, Hernandez needed loads of time to settle. Didn't he score in most pre-season games, the Charity Shield, his Euro away debut, etc etc etc?

I think a few players have squashed that myth over the past few years, Suarez and Hernandez for example are just 2 examples of players that didn't need time to settle in.
 
finneh said:
You are talking utter crap:

Take away Hernandez's goals from the start of last season until the end of December and we'd be 6 points worse off in the Premier League and 2 points worse off in the CL

Take away Berbatov's goals from the start up until end of December we'd be 5 points worse off in the Premier League.

So in actual fact Hernandez's goals were more important to the team, whilst he only started 9 games in comparison to Berbatov's 18. But don't let the facts get in the way of a deluded assertion.
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:lol:

Berbatov scored the most winners by any player in the last season, take away that and try to win the league.

Moron.
 
KM said:
Berbatov scored the most winners by any player in that season, take away that and try to win the league.
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That wasn't your argument. Your argument was that it was a fact that we wouldn't have won the League without Berbatov. When in reality Hernandez per start was far, far more effective even during Berbatov's best period at the club.
 
KM said:
Berbatov scored the most winners by any player in the last season, take away that and try to win the league.
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It's certainly a deluded argument to state anything as FACT, when it isn't actually fact.

All the name calling and smiley faces in the World don't change that.

Berba didn't win us the league, Berba didn't "rescue" our season, Berba played a part, a decent part. Why on Earth you lot are so insistent on making it out to be more than what it was is a mystery.

He hardly did a Ronaldo in 07-08 did he? or a Cantona in '96. He spent most of the second half of the season as 3rd choice if my memory serves.

To conclude, you're all nuts, and it aint changing anytime soon.
 
Sharky7 said:
It's certainly a deluded argument to state anything as FACT, when it isn't actually fact.

All the name calling and smiley faces in the World don't change that.

Berba didn't win us the league, Berba didn't "rescue" our season, Berba played a part, a decent part. Why on Earth you lot are so insistent on making it out to be more than what is was is a mystery.

He hardly did a Ronaldo in 07-08 did he?
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I'm not saying Berbatov won us the league, I'm saying that we wouldn't have won the league without Berbatov. Same with Nani, Vida. There's a big difference between those things.

I can't help you if you can't see the difference between the two things.

It's not at all a big claim to make, and I don't know why you and this other lad is getting so hyper over it.
 
KM said:
I'm not saying Berbatov won us the league, I'm saying that we wouldn't have won the league without Berbatov. Same with Nani, Vida. There's a big difference between those things.

I can't help you if you can't see the difference between the two things.
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I can see the difference and I agree, I've not stopped agreeing with this.

Finally you've seen the light. Difficult yes, maybe, I mean, who knows really, but as you say, the boy played his part, as did Nani, Vida etc.
 
Sharky7 said:
I can see the difference and I agree, I've not stopped agreeing with this.

Finally you've seen the light. Difficult yes, maybe, I mean, who knows really, but as you say, the boy played his part, as did Nani, Vida etc.
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When did I ever say Berbatov won us the league :confused:

So basically you were agreeing with me all along but argued just for the sake, well done.
 
KM said:
I'm not saying Berbatov won us the league, I'm saying that we wouldn't have won the league without Berbatov. Same with Nani, Vida. There's a big difference between those things.

I can't help you if you can't see the difference between the two things.
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Saying "it is likely that without one of our three best players at the start of the season we would have dropped 10 extra points and not won the league", is a lot different to saying "It is a fact that without him we wouldn't have won the League (ie it is a fact that we would have dropped 10 points with Hernandez playing instead of Berbatov)".

Personally I think that Berbatov's form early in the season probably earned us 4-5 points at best over and above what a good striker would have gotten us. Which is exceptional. Obviously this opinion is as much a "fact" as your opinion.
 
Sharky7 said:
It's certainly a deluded argument to state anything as FACT, when it isn't actually fact.

All the name calling and smiley faces in the World don't change that.

Berba didn't win us the league, Berba didn't "rescue" our season, Berba played a part, a decent part. Why on Earth you lot are so insistent on making it out to be more than what it was is a mystery.

He hardly did a Ronaldo in 07-08 did he? or a Cantona in '96. He spent most of the second half of the season as 3rd choice if my memory serves.

To conclude, you're all nuts, and it aint changing anytime soon.
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Top scorer in the league = "decent." :lol:

You are ridiculous.
 
KM said:
When did I ever say Berbatov won us the league :confused:

So basically you were agreeing with me all along but argued just for the sake, well done.
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Playing silly now KM.

Our argument started here.....

KM said:
We wouldn't have won the title without him, it's a fact. If we would've relied on Hernandez, then we would've surely done worse as his overall game play wasn't that great in the starting and he needed time to settle in the team.
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You then said, "anyone who disagree is a numpty".

But now you admit that it aint a fact. So basically you were agreeing with me all along but argued just for the sake, well done. BRAVO KM!
 
Sharky7 said:
Ah ha, the usual, don't answer the argument brigade. Just call someone Johnno or a Tevez lover, that'll detract from the fact that you're talking complete shite.

Difference with me and Johnno is that I think Berba played a good part last year, I just don't think he "rescued" anything and I personally believe we'd have won the league had Hernandez been the main man from the start of the year too. Is that sooooooo crazy :rolleyes:

I also disagreed that being a match winner vs. the scousers was comparable with scoring a CL final winner, am I wrong there too?

In fact, what the hell is your argument?
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I was trying to figure out why you hated him so much
 
Sharky7 said:
Lance, he was 3rd choice for most of the second half of the season, he's first half form/goals doesn't make up for that and therefore it was a "decent" season.

Had he remained 1st/2nd choice I'd see your point, but he didn't.
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He was the top scorer in the fecking league, for christ sake. You have the barefaced cheek to accuse people of "making his season out to be more than what it was", while you immediately go and do the exact opposite. Any specific reason why? Or are you just a hypocrite?
 
Lance Uppercut said:
He was the top scorer in the fecking league, for christ sake. You have the barefaced cheek to accuse people of "making his season out to be more than what it was", while you immediately go and do the exact opposite. Any specific reason why? Or are you just a hypocrite?
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Lance, let's get this straight, he was joint top scorer.

You're easily pleased if you think half a season of good form amounts to a great season. As I said, it was a decent season, had he remained 1st/2nd choice it would've been great.

Had I personally started a season that well and then faded from 1st choice to 3rd choice by the end, I'd call it decent, I'd actually finish the season pretty gutted that some young rookie outed me.
 
Sharky7 said:
Sure it is Rafa :rolleyes:
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To be fair he's sort of correct. We wouldn't have won the title without the contribution from Berbatov. Wouldn't have won the title without the contribution from a lot of our players in fairness:rolleyes:
 
EricaNo7 said:
Your posts about him arent even remotely constructive , just venomous. If you don't hate him , you're giving a good impression
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They are not venomous. Which post?

That he didn't "rescue" us?

That it isn't a "fact" that we wouldn't win the league without him?

My posts come from a United fan that doesn't have the blind faith/affection that some of you do, my posts aren't venomous at all, not one, they are just more of a realistic view than yours.

Ask someone who isn't a United fan about the subject, they'll probably agree.

The problem with you Erica is that you can't read the post without getting emotional, you have that much affection for Dimitar and that's fair enough, but it really does stop you being able to have any kind of decent debate about him.
 
Sharky7 said:
Lance, let's get this straight, he was joint top scorer.

You're easily pleased if you think half a season of good form amounts to a great season. As I said, it was a decent season, had he remained 1st/2nd choice it would've been great.

Had I personally started a season that well and then faded from 1st choice to 3rd choice by the end, I'd call it decent, I'd actually finish the season pretty gutted that some young rookie outed me.
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It wasn't his fault he fell 3rd in the pecking order. The goalscoring form of Chicharito forced SAF to play him. Berba did nothing wrong. If he remained first choice to play alongside Rooney, I'd have bet he finished the season near or around 30 goals. He was benched in favour of Chicharito, not his fault. And despite the fact he was 3rd choice for the last part of the season, no-one went on to score more goals than him in the team.

I'm pretty sure he was gutted, but he's a professional who has never mouthed off once about being dropped. He's gotten on with things the best he can.

He will forever be remembered as our top scorer in the season we made history by winning a record breaking 19th title.
 
MUFCgal said:
It wasn't his fault he fell 3rd in the pecking order. The goalscoring form of Chicharito forced SAF to play him. Berba did nothing wrong. If he remained first choice to play alongside Rooney, I'd have bet he finished the season near or around 30 goals. He was benched in favour of Chicharito, not his fault. And despite the fact he was 3rd choice for the last part of the season, no-one went on to score more goals than him in the team.

I'm pretty sure he was gutted, but he's a professional who has never mouthed off once about being dropped. He's gotten on with things the best he can.

He will forever be remembered as our top scorer in the season we made history by winning a record breaking 19th title.
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I don't and haven't disagreed with any of this.

I just disagree that a season that started so well and yet ended being 3rd choice and not even in the CL final squad can't be labelled as anything better than decent.
 
I'm selling some plastic chairs if any of you want to throw things at each other. Guaranteed not to break, even on the thickest skulls (i.e. mine).
 
Sharky7 said:
Lance, let's get this straight, he was joint top scorer.

You're easily pleased if you think half a season of good form amounts to a great season. As I said, it was a decent season, had he remained 1st/2nd choice it would've been great.
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He scored 8 league goals after Christmas. That's more than Rooney managed to score in open play for the whole season. Berbatov scored 20 goals in open play. The other strikers - Rooney, Hernandez, Owen - failed to score more goals in open play put together.
 
Sharky7 said:
Lance, let's get this straight, he was joint top scorer.
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And? What's your point? Do we strike some goals off for that?

You're easily pleased if you think half a season of good form amounts to a great season. As I said, it was a decent season, had he remained 1st/2nd choice it would've been great.

Had I personally started a season that well and then faded from 1st choice to 3rd choice by the end, I'd call it decent, I'd actually finish the season pretty gutted that some young rookie outed me.
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I see a guy who finished top scorer in the league, who scored more winners than anyone else, and who made the PFA Team of the Year. That to you, is merely "decent?" What a load of shite.
 
Treble said:
He scored 8 league goals after Christmas. That's more than Rooney managed to score in open play for the whole season. Berbatov scored 20 goals in open play. The other strikers - Rooney, Hernandez, Owen - failed to score more goals in open play put together.
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he was 3rd choice for most of the second half of the season.

he didn't make the CL final squad.

So he had a decent season, the first half was great, the second... not so great, all the stats in the World don't change that.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
I see a guy who finished top scorer in the league, who scored more winners than anyone else, and who made the PFA Team of the Year. That to you, is merely "decent?" What a load of shite.
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I see a guy that was 3rd choice for the second half of the season and sat in the stands for the Champions League final.

That to you is ""great", what a load of shite.
 
Sharky7 said:
I see a guy that was 3rd choice for the second half of the season and sat in the stands for the Champions League final.

That to you is ""great", what a load of shite.
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I didn't say it was "great." Have you really resorted to making things up now?
 
I'd say he had a good season, not merely decent. I am still not of the opinion however that his contribution over and above that of a striker of the caliber of Hernandez earned us 10 points. It is therefore clear in my opinion that "we would not have won the league without him" is not a fact and probably not even a balanced opinion.

If we'd have edged the league by 2-3 points I'd tend to agree. In my opinion he was our 5th best player in a season that we won our 19th title. But I'd say even without the aid of our best player that year we'd have still won the title, albeit by a much narrower margin.

If that brands me as a Berbatov hater then so be it.
 
Sharky7 said:
I don't and haven't disagreed with any of this.

I just disagree that a season that started so well and yet ended being 3rd choice and not even in the CL final squad can't be labelled as anything better than decent.
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You could make that argument if he had played the rest of the season as first choice, but failed to carry his form through the entire season. He was in great form scoring goals, then benched for the clinical Chicharito who was proving hard to drop due to his natural predatory instincts in front of goal.

Even now, after being dropped last season and completely left out of the CL, he's still saying he wants to play the rest of his career here.

He has a wonderful attitude, more could be like him (not necessarily from our club, but football in general).
 
Lance Uppercut said:
I didn't say it was "great." Have you really resorted to making things up now?
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He has been doing that for ages. Somehow claimed that somebody said berbatov won the league for us, when nobody said that. He is amazingly tedious both in the criticism of Berba and in defending of you know who.
 
Sharky7 said:
I see a guy that was 3rd choice for the second half of the season and sat in the stands for the Champions League final.

That to you is ""great", what a load of shite.
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The second half of the season doesn't start in March.

Chicharito became second choice in March, with the games vs Chelsea, Liverpool (where he was a substitute) and Arsenal, i.e. less than 3 months before the end of the season.
 
Sharky7 said:
They are not venomous. Which post?

That he didn't "rescue" us?

That it isn't a "fact" that we wouldn't win the league without him?

My posts come from a United fan that doesn't have the blind faith/affection that some of you do, my posts aren't venomous at all, not one, they are just more of a realistic view than yours.

Ask someone who isn't a United fan about the subject, they'll probably agree.

The problem with you Erica is that you can't read the post without getting emotional, you have that much affection for Dimitar and that's fair enough, but it really does stop you being able to have any kind of decent debate about him.
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I can just not understand how a United fan can be so hard on a player who helped us to no 19, with such a signicant contribution. You even had to qualify his scoring record as joint top scorer.
 
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