You know they are not, the vast majority are.
Berbatov | Fulham player
- Thread starter SAred
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You know they are not, the vast majority are.
Goals per minute would be a less misleasing statistic, even that wouldn't tell the whole story of a player who was asked to play very deep for around half of his utd career.
In the end it boils down to subjective opinions of a players worth. Wasn't it SAF who said he wasn't too bothered about the records of players only what they do on the pitch.
The best judge of Berba would probably be his team mates.
The best judge is Ferguson, who isn't playing him.
The might of the Caf disagree!!!
My vast experience of playing Pro Evo 3 trumps Sir Alex's puny opinions - obviously, we should sign Zidane and sell Beckham.
Indeed you are correct. I get loads of stick on here for my Berba-bashing ways. But the biggest Berba hater of us all is Fergie
He's played a part in the last four games, starting two.
Anything in here about Berba to Galatasary?
Heard it all before, I'll believe it when I see it.
Michael Owen started those two games as well to be fair.
Don't get me wrong Berbatov is a useful player mind. I wouldn't sell him purely because Rooney can go off on one, Welbeck is still a kid, Hernandez may have second season syndrome and he is better than Macheda, Diouf and Owen.
37 of them are substitute appearances. Remove them (and the two goals as a sub) and his record is 46 in 101. Remarkably close to... 1 in 2.
Which, for the record is better than Cantona (82 in 184 starts) and Sheringham (38 in 101), and broadly similar to Yorke (62 in 120). He's also added 25 assists, with roughly the same amount of assists-per-minute as Wayne Rooney.
My God! You're right! Does Fergie know this!? We have a player supposedly better than Sheringham and Cantona and he's not even including him in the Champions League Final!
Mention Stats and Feeky comes in a flash
So in you opinion are the stats telling you he has been better than Cantona and Sherigham and as good as Yorke?
So in you opinion are the stats telling you he has been better than Cantona and Sherigham and as good as Yorke?
Only you two have inferred that I was arguing he was better than both. Commadus decided to bring up goals-per-game, I simply clarified. I swear, the only time I have heard the argument of stats being the be all and end all is from people who hate them claiming people who use them think that.
I'd say its United struggling for form rather than Hernandez. Of late we haven't really been giving our strikers a great platform to perform.
Let's not forget that he usually gets left out of the big games and therefore doesn't face the better defences.
Hernandez has been pretty rubbish at times this season. He's still very sloppy on the ball and looks a level or two below our other players when it comes to this.
Something has to happen in January, either sell him or extend his contract. The club surely cannot let him go away on a free next June just like that buying him for 30m. And if that happens, just watch City pick him up just like Owen Hargreaves
Im surprised it took him so long. Now I know where Berba £100k a week goes - funding his army of statisticians and bloggers!
In fact if we got rid of berba it would create mass unemployment and in these hard times we need as many people in work as possible.
Fergie is using the early part of the season to blood Welbeck.
Berbatov will get more game time as the season wears on.
Berbatov will get more game time as the season wears on.
The problem is that he doesn't stake claim for a place when given a chance so far this season.
Off the bench he is one of the players most unlikely to make any difference to the game.
Off the bench he is one of the players most unlikely to make any difference to the game.
So let me get this straight:Im surprised it took him so long. Now I know where Berba £100k a week goes - funding his army of statisticians and bloggers!
In fact if we got rid of berba it would create mass unemployment and in these hard times we need as many people in work as possible.
Commadus posts misleading stat.
evra queries it.
Commadus guesses incorrectly.
I clarify the incorrect guess.
And I'm the one ribbed for posting about stats?
Really? That's very optimistic of you especially given we had Champions League and Carling Cup matches to blood Welbeck in.
In anycase have you seen his performances in the latter end of the season? I could be wrong but 1 goal in 3 seasons post-February is a terrible record. (And yes I understand it's largely down to Fergie not picking him, which again says a lot for a first team striker).
That's the Caf way mate.
6 goals
Really? I got him down as 7 goals. I made an error and typed in February instead of April. Last season was the first time he scored for us in April in any competition. But yeah doesn't really change the fact that he's been non-existant for us at the latter end of the season so doubt that's Fergie's strategy.
I always thought that Berba was better in the second half of the season. If we take 1st Jan as the halfway point then its as follows
.....1st..2nd
09...3....6
10...7....5
11...13...7
Tot..23..18
.....1st..2nd
09...3....6
10...7....5
11...13...7
Tot..23..18
You stated that Berbatov was "becoming a 1 in 3 man", saying he'd got "138 appearances and 48 goals". evra then queried how many of the 138 appearances were starts, to which you guessed "the vast majority". As it turns out 37 out of 138 were sub appearances. I don't think many would say that 73% is a "vast majority". In fact, it turns out when you take out his sub appearances and goals, he's pretty much a 1-in-2 striker. That's why it was misleading. Add substitute appearances on to any striker's record and it will drastically worsen.
I agree totally. I think a lot of the hype surrounding Welbeck is because he's a local lad who is a product of the youth academy (the first in an attacking position who has seriously threatened the first team since probably Mark Hughes).
I personally think he has looked okay this season, but has only really looked excellent in short bursts, usually after scoring (he looked a totally different player after scoring vs Spurs/Arsenal than before). He looks a good talent but is nowhere near Hernandez at the moment in my opinion.
The thing with Hernandez is that his game isn't (currently) about being really effective on the ball or about creating for other players. It's about getting a couple of chances and putting one of them away and in this regard he's been relatively successful this season (equalising as a sub against the scousers, getting the winner in a tight game vs Everton). I think since the Bolton game anyone playing ahead of Rooney has looked relatively poor, mainly due to the totally lack of creativity from both central midfield and our wings.
Rooney has scored 9 times in the league, but to put that in perspective if you took them all away, in theory we would only be 2 points worse off. You take away Hernandez' 4 goals and we are 3 points worse off.
So what I posted was correct and not misleading then - if you say it is then if we drill into his record of goals against teams and performances against the top v bottom sides etc - where do you draw the line to say what is misleading? It wasn't a guess. So all you really queried was my use of the term "vast majority".
In the records do they discount sub appearances?
I can take a subset of data and draw a different conclusion but if I take the full data set then shouldn't I be drawing a better conclusion?
Anyway my post re your stats was in jest.
it's always puzzled me that we got rid of Ruud because his game as an out & out striker was limited yet we have Hernandez who plays a similar game on the last defender's shoulder and he is the goods.
Don't get me wrong, I like Hernandez but was gutted that Ruud left and don't see what the Mexican brings that Ruud didn't.
Don't get me wrong, I like Hernandez but was gutted that Ruud left and don't see what the Mexican brings that Ruud didn't.
Our whole game plan was too centered around Ruud, and needed to change and become more fluid. If Ruud had been happy to hang around and not necessarily be center stage he probably could have. Whereas I should imagine Hernandez is probably fairly happy with his position at the moment...
A good attitude? Ruud left because he wanted to leave.
There was surely more to Ruud's departure than just us wanting only strikers who have a variety to their game. It should also be said that Ruud's game appeared to become more and more limited with us as time went by. Also, Hernandez is young and could still improve certain aspects of his game. Plus his movement is almost unmatchable.
Anyhow, 2006 was then and by 2010 things have changed.
Anyhow, 2006 was then and by 2010 things have changed.
I agree.
I do think we had a different style of play in mind when we signed Berbatov. I'm not exactly sure what the intention was, but if we were were playing with two wingers in 2009 the way we are now, I can't see how Berbatov would have been signed to mesh with that.
I wonder if it's because he thought we would be stronger in midfield than we've turned out to be. When we signed Berbatov, the tactics that had worked in Europe were still possible with the players we had at that time (Carrick and Fletcher in form, Giggs a bit younger, Scholes still around and Hargreaves still alive), and I could have seen us playing with Rooney and Berbatov up front. Perhaps Berbatov was going to play the role Ronaldo did at times in his last season, at Emirates and in Rome, I don't know.
Either way, I think the deciding factor in Berbatov coming to United was just that Fergie fell in love with his way of playing and had that urge to ee what he could do at Old Trafford. If it was, then what can you do - sometimes they come off, sometimes they don't.
The 5 years in between Ruud leaving and Hernandez joining is very significant and kinda negates that argument, in fairness.
I maintain if Louis Saha had been durable enough he would have been a perfect United striker.
He's also come off the bench and done the opposite of what he went on there to do.
He'll probably get games in the second half of the season with another team. I get the impression the only reason we held on to him was to see how Welbeck had progressed.
I just hope he doesn't kick and scream if we try to sell him like he did when leaving spurs for us. I also hope he understands that Fergie gave him every opportunity to become a first choice player but he never delivered enough to warrant it, and when he did, completely lost his bottle at the first sign of competition.