Berbatov | Fulham player

manutddjw said:
There's no arguing we overpaid for Berbatov and he wasn't worth over 30 million, but overall I think we got our moneys worth.

When we really needed him when Rooney was going through a half-season rough patch, Berbatov delivered and was one of the main reasons why we won the title in 2010/2011. If you look at the money Chelsea and City have spent to win the title or how much Liverpool spent to attempt to win a title, 30.75 million seems a bargain for a Premier League title.
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What?

And £30.75 million would be an absolute steal for a premier league title. But we already won it without him (and a champions league to boot) so its strange to suggest that spending the money = winning the league. It took years of dissappointing contributions to finally get that season out of him, and he lost his place in the team even though he was top scorer. Nobody can knock the fact he was important that season but we've had other important players in a season that didnt cost half as much like Saha, the man he replaced.
 
So him losing his place after being top scorer (actually he's lost it when he was on course to break 30 goals mark easily, which many people on here put down to him allegedly running out of steam) was his fault? He was a beast that season and would have got many more if he was actually fecking played. He was suddenly dropped, due to Fergie's idea of flair AND pace, which has as much to do with Berbatov, as with him not having in-born pace and dynamism. When will this utterly lazy and stupid myth disappear.

For the record I'm not criticising Fergie, he got the final result that 10/11 season. Why can't people accept that Berbatov, for all his flaws, is a brilliant player who would be still banging them in if not for suffering from unsuitedness to our approach? Even now, he would probably get at least 20 PL starts for every PL side bar City, where he would still get a reasonable number of games.
 
You think Sir Alex suddenly decided one day "I want flair and pace." And with Berbatov only having one of those he was dropped?
 
Beachryan said:
Despite what I've seen on the pitch, pretty sure he has the best goals/start ratio of any of our strikers over the past 2 seasons.
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If that's true then it's a great example of how statistics only tell half of the story.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Well, if you want it in that way, we couldn't have won the league without VDS, Evra, Vidic, Nani, Hernandez (to name a few) too.

And at-least Nani, VDS and Vidic contributed more than him in that season (I'm talking only for the league). In Champions, Chicha and Rooney were miles better.
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It was Berba who stepped up tho when Rooney's form disappeared completely. Say what you want about Berb, I love him and I think he's been very unfairly treated.

And if he'd actually been played more, I don't think we'd have lost the league on goal difference either. Infer from that what you will .
 
EricaNo7 said:
It was Berba who stepped up tho when Rooney's form disappeared completely. Say what you want about Berb, I love him and I think he's been very unfairly treated.

And if he'd actually been played more, I don't think we'd have lost the league on goal difference either. Infer from that what you will .
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Would have been handy in more of our home games last year which we only won by a couple of goals. QPR springs to mind
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
He didn't 'decide one day''. It took him a full season. That is why last season even Carrick started it on the bench and had a half fit Fletcher getting games ahead of him.
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I don't get that Chief? What are you suggesting specifically? I don't get the tie in between what he determined about Berba over a full season, compared to your Carrick/Fletcher example.
 
EricaNo7 said:
It was Berba who stepped up tho when Rooney's form disappeared completely. Say what you want about Berb, I love him and I think he's been very unfairly treated.

And if he'd actually been played more, I don't think we'd have lost the league on goal difference either. Infer from that what you will .
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That's very true, just as Evans did last season when Vidic got injured. That is what you want from players to stand up and be counted when you need them to.

It says a lot imo, that the one time Rooney is really struggling and is not seen as the main man, that Berba steps up to the plate and produces the best run of form during his time here. An indication really that Berba never performed as well because the team was usually put together to suit Rooney, and Berba had to just fit in.

The one time Rooney is out of the limelight, the team is set up with Berba as the main man, he regularly produced the goods. It makes me think that is what it has come down to in the end. SAF belatedly accepted that it is one or the other, rather than both, and he has obviously chose Rooney. That for me is what has eventually sealed Berba's fate at Utd.
 
Ekeke said:
To be honest its only now that he looks like he's a goner that someone wont be lynched for saying that. 6 months to a year ago it simply wouldnt be accepted
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:confused: He was always the better player. Maybe not as skillful or full of flair but definitely the better player.
 
Ekeke said:
You think Sir Alex suddenly decided one day "I want flair and pace." And with Berbatov only having one of those he was dropped?
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No, I think Fergie had thought Berba's Bolt's rich man but suddenly he acknowledged he isn't.

Maybe I expressed myself somewhat awkwardly, I think Fergie decided before the run-in that Berba's previous run-ins weren't great and he wanted to set-up for a lightingly quick, counter-attacking football. Which suited Rooney and Hernandez best. Obviously, it's not like Hernandez didn't merit it at all with his poaching ability and one chance = one goal. Which is one of the most important facets in the run-ins/tournaments.

Actually, I believe our best league football that year was with Berba in the team. We were dominating other teams at home and scoring one after another while playing some mind-boggling stuff. And not losing possession easily in the attacking third.
 
EricaNo7 said:
It was Berba who stepped up tho when Rooney's form disappeared completely. Say what you want about Berb, I love him and I think he's been very unfairly treated.

And if he'd actually been played more, I don't think we'd have lost the league on goal difference either. Infer from that what you will .
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People have different opinions, but for me he wasn't unfailry treated, in fact he got more chances that he deserved.

About Berba stepping when Rooney players do that from time to time as did Evans this year, Smalling when Ferdinand injured or Valencia when Nani dropped form. Abouut Berba I agree but only partially, he only played that good in December and January, on other parts of the season he didn't play that good. He scored 3 against Pool, and then dissapeared for about a month, then 5 against Blackburn and to be dissapeared again. IMO Chicha was far more consistent that season and scored much mroe important goals than him. About our main attacking player, I think that everybody knows that in that season Nani was our best offensive player.

When players loses their position in our team I don't have a problem even if they're my favorite player. Heinze lost it to Evra but it was on merit (Heinze was there my favorite player), Chicha lost it to Welbeck this season but Welbeck totally deserved it (Chicha is my favorite player now). I don't agree when players lose position to new signings even if they are better than the new signing which I think is the case of Tevez to Berba and to a degree Rafael to Jones.

Finally, Berba had it momments here, scored some goals, will remembered for his hat-trick against Liverpool, from that move when he passed to Ronaldo but in the end IMO he wasn't never a good signing, at best it was an average signing. And an expensive one.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
People have different opinions, but for me he wasn't unfailry treated, in fact he got more chances that he deserved.

About Berba stepping when Rooney players do that from time to time as did Evans this year, Smalling when Ferdinand injured or Valencia when Nani dropped form. Abouut Berba I agree but only partially, he only played that good in December and January, on other parts of the season he didn't play that good. He scored 3 against Pool, and then dissapeared for about a month, then 5 against Blackburn and to be dissapeared again. IMO Chicha was far more consistent that season and scored much mroe important goals than him. About our main attacking player, I think that everybody knows that in that season Nani was our best offensive player.

When players loses their position in our team I don't have a problem even if they're my favorite player. Heinze lost it to Evra but it was on merit (Heinze was there my favorite player), Chicha lost it to Welbeck this season but Welbeck totally deserved it (Chicha is my favorite player now). I don't agree when players lose position to new signings even if they are better than the new signing which I think is the case of Tevez to Berba and to a degree Rafael to Jones.

Finally, Berba had it momments here, scored some goals, will remembered for his hat-trick against Liverpool, from that move when he passed to Ronaldo but in the end IMO he wasn't never a good signing, at best it was an average signing. And an expensive one.
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You really don't like him do you?
 
Cina said:
:confused: He was always the better player. Maybe not as skillful or full of flair but definitely the better player.
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I dont disagree but if you said that before it looked like Berbatov was leaving, you'd have a whole team of people laughing at you.
 
Ekeke said:
Yeah poor Berbatov playing for Manchester United. I'd hate to be in his shoes
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I didnt mean it like that. Just that staying anohter season would surely be another year down the drain.

I always said he should have left last summer
 
Rand's right. Guy of his ability should be playing week in week out, even for a very good/top side.
 
evra said:
Yes I suppose you're right, I imagined that he could force his way into the side but considering his goals to games record last season I don't know what more he could have done. SAF has clearly decided that he doesn't fit the mould.
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Which was a great shame considering we lost the league on goal difference. Which I may have mentioned before
 
I want him to stay.

We would have won the league had Berbatov started more home games.

Would have added goals in the Villa game surely.

Rooney/Welbeck is our #1 combo and Chicharito is an impact sub IMO.

There is room for Berbatov if you ask me.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
I want him to stay.

We would have won the league had Berbatov started more home games.

Would have added goals in the Villa game surely.

Rooney/Welbeck is our #1 combo and Chicharito is an impact sub IMO.

There is room for Berbatov if you ask me.
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He started one of the two home games that we lost. The other loss was against City, and short of Berbatov becoming Berbabauer after Evans sending off, I can't see what impact he could have had.

And your last two sentences seem to contradict each other.

Sorry mate, but I can't quite grasp your point
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
I want him to stay.

We would have won the league had Berbatov started more home games.

Would have added goals in the Villa game surely.

Rooney/Welbeck is our #1 combo and Chicharito is an impact sub IMO.

There is room for Berbatov if you ask me.
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Kagawa seriously disagrees with you. 4 players (6 if you include Powell and Macheda) for two position enough. There is no room for Berbatov on the team and if he stays I cannot imagine that he will play more than 10 games which I think nobody wants to let it happen.
 
Keeping Berbatov and not playing him is a crime against football. He's not everyone's cup of tea, and he didn't make it at United, but we can't deprive the world of his skill.

He is genuinely one of the most talented footballers in the world. He deserves to be on a pitch somewhere.
 
My point is that Berbatov can still be usefull.

Mecheda is nowhere near ready and frankly he is pretty limited besides his finishing. Kinda like Chicharito.

I love Chicharito but like I said he is more of the Ole type - great finisher but more suited as backup.

Which leaves Rooney and Welbeck as our only strikers who have a solid overall game where they can contribute without scoring goals. With Berbatov around, we have 3 plus Chicharito.

Class off the bench and class to fill in for injured/suspended/off form players is vital.

Ya I know about the wages for a player to sit on the bench but I think having some class and experience alongside a young strikeforce is very much needed.
 
Beachryan said:
Keeping Berbatov and not playing him is a crime against football. He's not everyone's cup of tea, and he didn't make it at United, but we can't deprive the world of his skill.

He is genuinely one of the most talented footballers in the world. He deserves to be on a pitch somewhere.
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Do you think he would prefer PSG or Spurs or would he prefer a backup role for United?
 
I hope he goes, for his own career, great player.
 
Beachryan said:
Keeping Berbatov and not playing him is a crime against football. He's not everyone's cup of tea, and he didn't make it at United, but we can't deprive the world of his skill.

He is genuinely one of the most talented footballers in the world. He deserves to be on a pitch somewhere.
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:lol: If for some reason we keep him, he will get some games and fill in. What we wont be doing is paying him to not play any football. So we wont be guilty of any "crimes" :lol:
 
I desperately want to keep him, but he's been selfless for us so far, we can't give him another season of the same shit treatment.
 
Still gutted it never really worked out for him here, I thought he was going to be amazing.

I imagined him being the focal point of our attack, with him coming deep and doing fancy little flicks into the paths of the onrushing Rooney and Ronaldo. Sounds great in theory, doesn't it?

He just never played with the same swagger and belief that he displayed at Spurs. Such a shame.

Still, he's been really graceful this last year or so when, at times, it can't have been easy, so you have to respect him for that. Hopefully he moves on to a good side and gets to show what he's truly capable of doing.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
My point is that Berbatov can still be usefull.

Mecheda is nowhere near ready and frankly he is pretty limited besides his finishing. Kinda like Chicharito.

I love Chicharito but like I said he is more of the Ole type - great finisher but more suited as backup.

Which leaves Rooney and Welbeck as our only strikers who have a solid overall game where they can contribute without scoring goals. With Berbatov around, we have 3 plus Chicharito.

Class off the bench and class to fill in for injured/suspended/off form players is vital.

Ya I know about the wages for a player to sit on the bench but I think having some class and experience alongside a young strikeforce is very much needed.
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Well, Berba had played only about 10 games this season, with Kagawa here this number can only be decreased. Powell and Macheda surely that are not ready yet, but they can play in some unimportant matches like league cup when Berbatov played this year sometimes.

3 others + Chicharito is not a valid point. Again you are forgetting Kagawa. We all know that Rooney, Welbeck, Chicha and Kagawa will fight for 2 positions. So if Berbatov stays there will be 4 + Chicharito which is too much. Also, there have been a year and a half since Chicharito is higher in pecking order than Berbatov. I also don't agree that Chicha should be used mostly as a substitute. He was extremely good in his first season here (IMO much better than Berbatov) and far more consistent than him. Also, much better in big matches. He scored many important goals when he started, against Stoke away 2 times, Stoke home, Everton home, Marseille home 2 times, Chelsea home 2 times etc. He is very good as a starter. A bad year that was mainly due to the injuries and him not having a full pre-season and not having a proper rest doesn't make him a bench player and lower in pecking order than Berbatov. With Welbeck and Rooney tired from EURO, I really think that Chicha will be in our first 11 more often than last season, surprassing Welbeck in pecking order.

Also, I don't think that we need that much Berbatov experience, we have many other experienced players. Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Young and to a degree Chicha are not anymore that young that we need an experienced forward. Also, if I remember correctly his experience didn't helped us that much when we mostly needed him (end of the season 2011). For all his experience he didn't make even in the bench in final of UCL in his best season here.

Beachryan said:
He is genuinely one of the most talented footballers in the world. He deserves to be on a pitch somewhere.
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Seriously, this is one of the most hyperbolic sentences I have ever seen. Berbatov one of the most talented footballers in the world?! FFS.
 
Berbatov's numbers are not out of place among the top strikers in United's history.


Yorke - 65 goals, 147 apps, [.442 gpa]
Andy Cole - 121 goals, 275 apps, [.440 gpa]
Sandy Turnbull - 101 goals, 247 apps, [.409 gpa]
Best - 179 goals, 470 apps, [.381 gpa]
Berbatov - 56 goals, 149 apps, [.375 gpa]
Mark Hughes - 163 goals, 467 apps, [.349 gpa]
Solskjaer - 126 goals, 366 apps, [.344 gpa]
Saha - 42 goals, 124 apps, [.339 gpa]
Joe Spence - 168 goals, 510 apps, [.329 gpa]
Sheringham - 46 goals, 145 apps, [.317 gpa]


Of his 149 appearances, 110 were starts, which gives him a goals per start average of .509, which would compare more favorably to other United striker who had a fewer % of their appearances as subs, Ole aside.
 
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