Berbatov

[Fergies Formula]

Sorry, that is purely my fault, because I'm against the transfer, I admit I've given the impression that I don't rate him and that he wouldn't succeed.

Which isn't the case. I do rate him (not as much as some others though) and I do think he'd do well, however, I would much prefer we bought a younger, pacy striker for the money being touted around, as I think they'd do even better. But, hey, that's just me. And I admit, I'm slowly coming round to the idea of Berbatov, although I'm yet to be fully convinced. And £30 million is ridiculous, in fact, it's totally insane.

Its all well and good imagining this young pacey striker, but who is it?
as i stated in my post on the previous page i dont think benzema will come and i dont think david villa is the answer for various reason, so who else is there? We do have a young pacey striker on the books mind so it would be silly not to give him a shot for that role.


The more i think about it the more i want it to happen, he ticks all the right boxes and is available, he would add another option up front and would no doubt improve the team and the players around him.

 

[robthered]

The logic behind this is dubious IMO, since I'd prefer the most money regardless of where he goes, but that appears to be the club's position because, I guess, whilst there's more money sloshing around the Prem than in other leagues they'd ideally prefer him not to strengthen another Prem club, but to go abroad instead.

That was my interpretation. That's like wanting to sell your house for the most money possible but thinking that if some foreign guy wants to buy then you'd happily settle for £50k less.

 

[VoetbalWizard]

That was my interpretation. That's like wanting to sell your house for the most money possible but thinking that if some foreign guy wants to buy then you'd happily settle for £50k less.

not really, because the buyer of your home isn't going to be in constant competition of your future income stream/success in 99% of the cases.

 

[GlastonSpur]

That was my interpretation. That's like wanting to sell your house for the most money possible but thinking that if some foreign guy wants to buy then you'd happily settle for £50k less.

That's not really a true analogy, because selling to another Prem club strengthens a rival, whereas selling abroad doesn't.

I can see the logic in the club's apparent stance, but for me MUFC are not really going to be a rival next season since our chances of displacing you from the top 4 are not great, so I'd prefer the money to enable us to make the best possible new signings.

 

[Fergies Formula]

Glaston do you believe that berbatov will be with you come the start of the season?

 

[giggsyflying]

if it takes 25M to sign him, why not signing hunter who costs less, younger and faster (relatively)?

 

[Ekeke]

if it takes 25M to sign him, why not signing hunter who costs less, younger and faster (relatively)?

Because neither of them do what we need from a player who would be replacing Saha.

Berbatov + Tevez? I'm not sure theres a slower striking partnership in the league.

 

[Sam]

Its all well and good imagining this young pacey striker, but who is it?
.

I don't know. But then again, that's not for me to know. I'm just suggesting the criteria of a player we need, not suggesting names. Just because we may never have heard of the player that fits the criteria because he's not a superstar, doesn't mean he's not out there. Take Vidic and Evra as prime examples.

Because neither of them do what we need from a player who would be replacing Saha.

Aye, very true.

Berbatov + Tevez? I'm not sure theres a slower striking partnership in the league.

And this worries me.

 

[KeyserSoze]

And this worries me.

You clearly have not seen much of Berbatov then because he is not slow at all.

 

[Ekeke]

You clearly have not seen much of Berbatov then because he is not slow at all.

He's very average paced. Slower than most strikers at the top 4 clubs.

Rooney
Saha
Campbell
Kalou
Drogba
Anelka
Van Persie
Adebayor
Walcott
Eduardo (when he was fit)
Kuyt
Torres
Voronin

Are all faster movers than he. The only strikers I can think of at one of the top 4 thats missing from that list are Tevez and Crouch. And thats only the Tevez of this season, because in the past he's looked a bit more mobile.

And thats not to say Berbatov isn't a very good player. He really is. Just nothing like what we need as a partner for : Rooney, Manucho and Tevez.

I commented on Tevez and Berbatov playing together... Yeah, thats a lack of pace. Even worse, Berbatov & Manucho...

We need someone with pace.

 

[Giggsy PO]

if it takes 25M to sign him, why not signing hunter who costs less, younger and faster (relatively)?

Maybe because Berbatov is better and would suit us more.

 

[Giggsy PO]

He's very average paced. Slower than most strikers at the top 4 clubs.

Rooney
Saha
Campbell
Kalou
Drogba
Anelka
Van Persie
Adebayor
Walcott
Eduardo (when he was fit)
Kuyt
Torres
Voronin

Are all faster movers than he. The only strikers I can think of at one of the top 4 thats missing from that list are Tevez and Crouch. And thats only the Tevez of this season, because in the past he's looked a bit more mobile.

And thats not to say Berbatov isn't a very good player. He really is. Just nothing like what we need as a partner for : Rooney, Manucho and Tevez.

I commented on Tevez and Berbatov playing together... Yeah, thats a lack of pace. Even worse, Berbatov & Manucho...

We need someone with pace.

fecking hell, this is the biggest bollox I have read here today (and I read the general too)

Voronin, Anelka, Kuyt... just for start

 

[Ekeke]

fecking hell, this is the biggest bollox I have read here today (and I read the general too)

Voronin, Anelka, Kuyt... just for start

You dont think Anelka has more pace than Berbatov?

 

[KeyserSoze]

Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo are not as slow as you are making out Ekeke, they did pretty well this last season. Berbatov is also just as fast as some of the strikers you have listed and will make better runs and decisions than some of them as well. When talking about this with you in the past the conversation also went to formations as well, i thought you were of the opinion we would not play two up front but rather two players playing off the front man. Its not all about blazing speed and i know you are in love with Villa, as is Sam#1 after watching him for two games. Cantona, Sheringham, Yorke, Solskjaer, RVN and Forlan were not exactly speed merchants, it is clear Fergie has interest in him and it is for a reason.

 

[Giggsy PO]

You dont think Anelka has more pace than Berbatov?

Do you understand the difference between the pace in football and in athletic for instance?

 

[Partizan]

You dont think Anelka has more pace than Berbatov?

He's certainly quicker to ask for a transfer.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Glaston do you believe that berbatov will be with you come the start of the season?

No, but not 100% sure of that ... maybe 80% right now.

 

[Ceks]

He's certainly quicker to ask for a transfer.

 

[Ekeke]

Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo are not as slow as you are making out Ekeke, they did pretty well this last season.

How am I making out that Ronaldo and Rooney are slow? Tevez didnt show the acceleration this season to make it count when he got away from defenders several times this season. Its partly due to being tired, I hope, as he's looked a bit faster in the past.

Berbatov is also just as fast as some of the strikers you have listed and will make better runs and decisions than some of them as well.

Name names please. Yes, berbatov makes clever runs - but the one run we need is on the last shoulder of the defender. The run that Robbie Keane makes for Spurs and its often Berbatov finding him... We need the runner, not so much the creative player. We have Rooney and Tevez for that.

When talking about this with you in the past the conversation also went to formations as well, i thought you were of the opinion we would not play two up front but rather two players playing off the front man. Its not all about blazing speed and i know you are in love with Villa, as is Sam#1 after watching him for two games. Cantona, Sheringham, Yorke, Solskjaer and Forlan were not exactly speed merchants, it is clear Fergie has interest in him and it is for a reason.

Its about replacing Saha and his role in the squad, in my opinion. There are very few players exactly like Saha who we could bring in... So we'll perhaps be losing something he can give us and gaining in another area, like better finishing.

But playing on the last shoulder of the defender with good speed and a good finish is an absolute must, considering the players we already have. Thats their ideal partner.

Rooney and Tevez are creative players. Having a mobile front man who likes to get in behind the defence will mean they can show off their creative passing ability and they wont be relied upon so much to finish all their chances - something thats not natural to either of them.

Manucho is a finisher and a demon in the air. But he's not blessed with pace either. He needs a partner who will do most of the running.

Manucho isn't fast. Tevez isn't fast. Rooney is fast, but he cant play every game and he's not as fast as Saha once was, nor does he do quite as well playing on the shoulder of the last man. Regardless, we should be looking to get him back into his position behind the front man... Not going into the season with him being our fastest and best player on the shoulder.

As I was saying, we may not be able to go exactly like for like with Saha... But we need a player who gives us most of the qualities he did.

Berbatov instead gives us most of the abilities Tevez and Rooney have.

 

[Ekeke]

/sidestep

Answer the question. Do you honestly believe Berbatov is faster than Anelka?

 

[Younited.7]

He's very average paced. Slower than most strikers at the top 4 clubs.

Rooney
Saha
Campbell
Kalou
Drogba
Anelka
Van Persie
Adebayor
Walcott
Eduardo (when he was fit)
Kuyt
Torres
Voronin

Are all faster movers than he. The only strikers I can think of at one of the top 4 thats missing from that list are Tevez and Crouch. And thats only the Tevez of this season, because in the past he's looked a bit more mobile.

And thats not to say Berbatov isn't a very good player. He really is. Just nothing like what we need as a partner for : Rooney, Manucho and Tevez.

I commented on Tevez and Berbatov playing together... Yeah, thats a lack of pace. Even worse, Berbatov & Manucho...

We need someone with pace.

What tosh.

Most teams will play a deep defensive line to counter our fast attacking line and that has often been our undoing - inability to switch approach and not having somebody to be able use the ball efficiently up-front.

None of the highlighted use their pace primarily, how many goals have they got between them?

Tevez and Berbatov do not lack pace.

- Tevez is quick, but he plays in a deeper role ie tight spaces

- Berbatov is not slow by any stretch, i am well covered here

How you can say Berbatov wouldn't compliment Rooney or Tevez is beyond me; he is the perfect foil for pacey, energetic strikers and fluid attack from the wings. He can head, poach, pass, hold the ball and score goals from almost anywhere.

Let me analyse what you have said...

a strikeforce of Torres, Voronin and Kuyt that has more pace () will be more potent than Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov because one of them isn't an out-and-out speedster?

But he is one of the most technically gifted strikers in the world.

Madness.

Edit: Playing on the shoulder of the last defender is not simply to break through the middle of the defence - it is to occupy the defenders time, not allowing them to push-up and forcing space between them and the midfield for our creative players to work.

How often do you see clear breaks through the middle of top tier defences?

Not very often

It is intelligence required to make space and create oppurtunities for other players, not pace.

 

[Ekeke]

What tosh.

None of the highlighted use their pace and how many goals have they got between them?

Tevez and Berbatov do not lack pace.

- Tevez is quick, but he plays in a deeper role ie tight spaces

- Berbatov is not slow by any stretch, i am well covered here

How you can say Berbatov wouldn't compliment Rooney or Tevez is beyond me; he is the perfect foil for pacey, energetic strikers and fluid attack from the wings. He can head, poach, pass, hold the ball and score goals from almost anywhere.

Let me analyse what you have said...

a strikeforce of Torres, Voronin and Kuyt that has more pace () will be more potent than Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov because one of them isn't an out-and-out speedster?

But he is one of the most technically gifted strikers in the world.

Madness.

Stop making up imaginary conversations just because I dont think your favourite player suits us at all. Pathetic.

How does Tevez playing in a deeper role effect his pace?

All of the players mentioned move faster than Berbatov. Sorry.

I'd love him here if we didn't have both Tevez and Rooney. But we do. And his main ability is exactly the same as theirs - creating goals for his team mates.

We havent lacked in creating chances this season. Never. What we did lack was Rooney playing in his natural position, someone looking for the ball over the top and a clinical finisher at times.

Addressing that is the most important thing when we are replacing the striker who would have provided most of those things if he hadnt been crocked.

 

[Giggsy PO]

Answer the question. Do you honestly believe Berbatov is faster than Anelka?

You know, they are footballers. They don´t compete on 100m with Maurice Green. And on the first 10-15 meters (with ball) no way Berbatov is slower than Anelka.

 

[Ceks]

What tosh.

Most teams will play a deep defensive line to counter our fast attacking line and that has often been our undoing - inability to switch approach and not having somebody to be able use the ball efficiently up-front.

None of the highlighted use their pace primarily, how many goals have they got between them?

Tevez and Berbatov do not lack pace.

- Tevez is quick, but he plays in a deeper role ie tight spaces

- Berbatov is not slow by any stretch, i am well covered here

How you can say Berbatov wouldn't compliment Rooney or Tevez is beyond me; he is the perfect foil for pacey, energetic strikers and fluid attack from the wings. He can head, poach, pass, hold the ball and score goals from almost anywhere.

Let me analyse what you have said...

a strikeforce of Torres, Voronin and Kuyt that has more pace () will be more potent than Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov because one of them isn't an out-and-out speedster?

But he is one of the most technically gifted strikers in the world.

Madness.

True, and that list could be trimmed down even further. Berbatov is just as capable of running in behind defenses as Adebayor or Drogba, who are hardly speed demons, and tend to rely on strength more than anything else. The hold up play both these bring to their respective sides is exactly what Berbatov could bring to old trafford, and also a lot more as he has a much greater footballing intelligence in comparison to the Africans mentioned above.

 

[Name Changed]

You know, they are footballers. They don´t compete on 100m with Maurice Green. And on the first 10-15 meters (with ball) no way Berbatov is slower than Anelka.

Berbatov is twice the player Anelka is.

 

[Giggsy PO]

Berbatov is twice the player Anelka is.

But Anelka would out sprint him in Olympics 100m and therefor we should buy him.

 

[Younited.7]

Stop making up imaginary conversations just because I dont think your favourite player suits us at all. Pathetic.

How does Tevez playing in a deeper role effect his pace?

All of the players mentioned move faster than Berbatov. Sorry.

I'd love him here if we didn't have both Tevez and Rooney. But we do. And his main ability is exactly the same as theirs - creating goals for his team mates.

We havent lacked in creating chances this season. Never. What we did lack was Rooney playing in his natural position, someone looking for the ball over the top and a clinical finisher at times.

Addressing that is the most important thing when we are replacing the striker who would have provided most of those things if he hadnt been crocked.

You must be the biggest idiot i have come across today, this week and probably the whole month.

We have lacked creating oppurtunities in some games, we have lacked sspark, we have lacked composure and that is what Fergie is trying to address.

How you can contradict Fergies statements categorically saying that we need experience and somebody who can head the ball, twist them round and say the most important thing we need is pace is absolutely beyond me. You must be a feckwit of the highest proportions to obscure the facts in the way that you have.

1) Tevez plays in tight spaces

2) Tevez cannot get up to full gallop because he cant, obviously.

What is so hard about understanding the notion that you need space to run into on a football field.

By stating shit players such as Kuyt etc you have directly compared them with Berbatov, ridiculous. It may only be pace but how thick must you be to look at that single aspect of their games to compare, it gives me absolute liberty to:

1) call you a fecking idiot - because you are

2) pull the point apart because of your choosey comparison and complete ignorance to other parts of their game.

Your point is:

1) We need pace - a silly assertion in its own right backed up a loose belief that playing on the shoulder of the last man requires pace and that is quintessential in our search for a striker.

that effectively renders the rest of your argument invalid, you can't start with bullshit premises based on your opinion.

2) Berbatov doesn't have electric pace a la Torres, Walcott, Kalou (the rest are very debatable - whether the smallest extra yard helps them - most are shit by the way) so we shouldn't sign him.

Just bollocks.

You are being childish - relating my admiration of Berbatov to the reason i want to sign him, that is a childish, pathetic and petulant thing to say as i have clearly stated the true reasons behind why i think he is suitable.

 

[Ekeke]

You know, they are footballers. They don´t compete on 100m with Maurice Green. And on the first 10-15 meters (with ball) no way Berbatov is slower than Anelka.

How does on the ball speed effect how fast he'll run in behind the defence? Thats what we need from a Saha replacement.

 

[Younited.7]

Thank feck for the sense talkers - I can't stand these immature comparisons made to prove pathetically weak and senseless points.

The empirical evidence is out there.

 

[Younited.7]

How does on the ball speed effect how fast he'll run in behind the defence? Thats what we need from a Saha replacement.

That is a long ball tactic you fecking numpty - we play football on the floor son.

 

[Ekeke]

You must be the biggest idiot i have come across today, this week and probably the whole month.

We have lacked creating oppurtunities in some games, we have lacked sspark, we have lacked composure and that is what Fergie is trying to address.

According to what? Where has he said that?

In case it escaped your attention, we scored more than any other team in the league. Despite having no natural finishing striker. Evidently we created enough chances to fluff a good percentage of them and still score more goals than our rivals. We don't lack in creativity. Not that more isnt welcome, but you're mad if you think SAF has gone into this transfer window thinking

"We need to address the fact we didn't create enough oppertunities"

How you can contradict Fergies statements categorically saying that we need experience and somebody who can head the ball, twist them round and say the most important thing we need is pace is absolutely beyond me.

And where are the quotes for this? Yes he said we are looking at young players, then said we'll need someone with experience to take over from Giggs when he calls it a day. Where are the quotes about someone who can head the ball? Tevez did a fine job with that by the way. Half his goals last season were headers.

You must be a feckwit of the highest proportions to obscure the facts in the way that you have.

I believe you're the one making up imaginary quotes from the manager with regards to players who can "head the ball."

1) Tevez plays in tight spaces

2) Tevez cannot get up to full gallop because he cant, obviously.

Everyone plays in tight spaces. Its called a football pitch with 22 players and 1 referee taking up most of the grass. Playing behind the front man didn't effect Rooney's pace.

What is so hard about understanding the notion that you need space to run-in on a football field.

Because only in your head is Tevez the only player on the football field. All players need space. If you're saying he hasnt been given enough, thats partly because we havent been playing with a striker who wants the ball over the top and constantly making runs, to open up that space for a Rooney or Tevez to exploit. But everyone is playing on the same football pitch.

By stating shit players such as Kuyt etc you have directly compared them with Berbatov, ridiculous. It may only be pace but how thick must you be to look at that single aspect of their games to compare, it gives me absolute liberty to:

1) call you a fecking idiot - because you are

2) pull the point apart because of your choosey comparison and complete ignorance to other parts of their game.

...

We were talking about one aspect. Pace. The only comparison is about pace. Berbatov is a wonderful player, better than a lot of the players in that list, but he's slower than all of them. And fanboys like yourself who get upset and throw their toys out of the pram when someone has concerns, dont help his cause in the slightest. As seen with the Hargreaves debates.

Your point is:

1) We need pace - a silly assertion in its own right backed up a loose belief that playing on the shoulder of the last man requires pace and that is quintessential in our search for a striker.

Wrong. We need someone who can play next to Manucho and Tevez as well as someone who can play next to Rooney.

Manucho and Tevez need a partner with pace. Rooney less so, but its still hugely beneficial to him. See the Saha and Rooney partnership last year, where Rooney was at his best in the hole.

that effectively renders the rest of your argument invalid, you can't start with bullshit premises based on your opinion.

Stop trying to act clever when you're clearly struggling for any grasp over the conversation at hand.

2) Berbatov doesn't have electric pace a la Torres, Walcott, Kalou (the rest are very debatable - whether the smallest extra yard helps them - most are shit by the way) so we shouldn't sign him.

Just bollocks.

I'm sorry that your favourite player doesn't have the pace to play with 2 of our 3 strikers.

You are being childish - relating my admiration of Berbatov to the reason i want to sign him, that is a childish, pathetic and petulant thing to say as i have clearly stated the true reasons behind why i think he is suitable.

Pot, kettle, black you ignorant hypocrite. Get off your high horse before you fall off.

That is a long ball tactic you fecking numpty - we play football on the floor son.

You obviously havent seen Saha play. Which makes you a new fan this season. Typical JCL.

What tosh.

Most teams will play a deep defensive line to counter our fast attacking line and that has often been our undoing - inability to switch approach and not having somebody to be able use the ball efficiently up-front.

You dont believe Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez have 'efficiently' used the ball up front? Take a look at our goals scored column and how many of them have come from those 3 players. You'll be surprised. Most wont.

 

[KeyserSoze]

How am I making out that Ronaldo and Rooney are slow? Tevez didnt show the acceleration this season to make it count when he got away from defenders several times this season. Its partly due to being tired, I hope, as he's looked a bit faster in the past..

You are making it out like it is something we are in dire need of when its Rooney and Ronaldo who make most of our counter attacking runs as well as playing on the last shoulder at times. Yeah Rooney's finishing was not great at times but it will improve. As you say Tevez is tired but he was not exactly Teddy Sheringham last season anyway.

Name names please. Yes, berbatov makes clever runs - but the one run we need is on the last shoulder of the defender. The run that Robbie Keane makes for Spurs and its often Berbatov finding him... We need the runner, not so much the creative player. We have Rooney and Tevez for that..

Berbatov instead gives us most of the abilities Tevez and Rooney have.

Kuyt, Drogba, Van Persie, Eduardo, Voronin (Seriously?)

Seriously, how much do you watch Tottenham, Berbatov is a different player from Rooney and Tevez. He plays with his back to goal, has the best first touch in the premiership in my opinion and is a great finisher and is capable of running in behind. Robbie Keane is also not the player you make him out to be he is just as creative as Berbatov and i also doubt he is faster than Rooney.

Its about replacing Saha and his role in the squad, in my opinion. There are very few players exactly like Saha who we could bring in... So we'll perhaps be losing something he can give us and gaining in another area, like better finishing.

But playing on the last shoulder of the defender with good speed and a good finish is an absolute must, considering the players we already have. Thats their ideal partner.

Manucho is a finisher and a demon in the air. But he's not blessed with pace either. He needs a partner who will do most of the running.

When Saha was at is best with Rooney he was not continually on the last shoulder like a Michael Owen, he was pushed right up, holding the ball up with Rooney flourishing in the space left behind. It was rare he was displaying blistering pace. It also seems to me Saha's finishing has got better as he has been injured he is not prolific.

As for Manucho i refuse to include him in this equation, if he works out it is a bonus. None of us have seen him play enough or at a high enough level to determine what his best attributes are or if he can have a big impact on the European Champions retaining their trophies.

Another thing is where is all this space that the pacy striker is running into coming from because "playing on the last shoulder" is completely different from the speedy counter attacks displayed last season. Do we watch the same team, 95% of the teams playing at Old Trafford and also away from home play with ten men behind the ball and very deep making these oppurtunities few and far between. We have to find different ways with creative players like Berbatov to break them down and open the game up.

 

[Younited.7]

According to what? Where has he said that?

In case it escaped your attention, we scored more than any other team in the league. Despite having no natural finishing striker. Evidently we created enough chances to fluff a good percentage of them and still score more goals than our rivals. We don't lack in creativity. Not that more isnt welcome, but you're mad if you think SAF has gone into this transfer window thinking

"We need to address the fact we didn't create enough oppertunities"

Some games, you silly silly boy. Don't quote me out of context.


And where are the quotes for this? Yes he said we are looking at young players, then said we'll need someone with experience to take over from Giggs when he calls it a day. Where are the quotes about someone who can head the ball? Tevez did a fine job with that by the way. Half his goals last season were headers.

"We'll also have Manucho back from Panathinaikos. He showed in the Africa Cup of Nations what a big, powerful striker he is. So, along with Carlos Tevez and Wayne Rooney, we've got planty of strength in that department. But we do need experience."

Will retrieve source.

"So we have to try to make up our minds on that, but it would help me if we could get another main striker in which would help the situation - someone possibly with height."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/05/11/sfnman111.xml

I believe you're the one making up imaginary quotes from the manager with regards to players who can "head the ball."

Height and heading the ball are directly related, we aren't going to stick somebody up front who is tall but can't head you twit.

Everyone plays in tight spaces. Its called a football pitch with 22 players and 1 referee taking up most of the grass. Playing behind the front man didn't effect Rooney's pace.

No way, you silly twat. We have had Tevez one season, mainly playing 4-3-3 and you are saying he isn't quick?

His position directly affects him running at full pace, how can you not see that?

Has Rooney been full belt this season?

Has he been beating men left, right and centre?


Because only in your head is Tevez the only player on the football field. All players need space. If you're saying he hasnt been given enough, thats partly because we havent been playing with a striker who wants the ball over the top and constantly making runs, to open up that space for a Rooney or Tevez to exploit. But everyone is playing on the same football pitch.

Over the top?

How many world class defences are going to be beaten by a simple over the top ball?

How fecking stupid, that is why they have a deeper defensive line and the goal keeper a bit further forward. We are not going to be winning games on over the top football, that is very outdated and not the style we want to achieve.

...

We were talking about one aspect. Pace. The only comparison is about pace. Berbatov is a wonderful player, better than a lot of the players in that list, but he's slower than all of them. And fanboys like yourself who get upset and throw their toys out of the pram when someone has concerns, dont help his cause in the slightest. As seen with the Hargreaves debates.

You were, not many people agree that we need pace. What you said was silly, you stated that other forward lines were faster and that was soemthing to worry about. They aren't and we shouldn't end of story.

Wrong. We need someone who can play next to Manucho and Tevez as well as someone who can play next to Rooney.

Oh right so Teddy and Ole couldn't play together?

He can do all three, Manucho and Berbatov wouldn't be ideal but how often are Rooney and Tevez both going to be injured?

Manucho and Tevez need a partner with pace. Rooney less so, but its still hugely beneficial to him. See the Saha and Rooney partnership last year, where Rooney was at his best in the hole.

You are making a causal connection between the fact Saha had pace and Rooneys form. That is a massive flaw, you cannot A+B and conclude C when your first points don't actually support eachother. Saha made intelligent runs, stretched the defence and layed the ball off allowing more time and space for Rooney to work in. Berbatov is better than Saha at all those things. "over the top" balls didn't contribute to Rooneys form in the slightest.


Stop trying to act clever when you're clearly struggling for any grasp over the conversation at hand.

Prat.

I'm sorry that your favourite player doesn't have the pace to play with 2 of our 3 strikers.

Pathetic and petulant.

Pot, kettle, black you ignorant hypocrite. Get off your high horse before you fall off.

See above. Idiot.

You obviously havent seen Saha play. Which makes you a new fan this season. Typical JCL.

More ridiculous shite, how old are you?

Anybody else disagree?

 

[Ekeke]

You are making it out like it is something we are in dire need of when rooney and Ronaldo who make most of our counter attacking runs as well as playing on the last shoulder at times. Yeah Rooney's finishing was not great at times but it will improve. As you say Tevez is tired but he was not exactly Teddy Sheringham last season anyway.

Tevez showed a lack of pace time and again last season.

Put it this way. We're replacing the fastest striker in our squad for the past few years. We're going to replace him with a striker who is slower than all our other strikers?

Kuyt, Drogba, Van Persie, Eduardo, Voronin (Seriously?)

Drogba and Van Persie have good pace. Kuyt also has some pace and Eduardo too if you've watched him, is quite quick. Voronin isn't that fast, but he's faster than Berbatov. Sadly that small amount of speed is all Voronin has.

Seriously, how much do you watch Tottenham

Quite a lot this season.

Berbatov is a different player from Rooney and Tevez. He plays with his back to goal, has the best first touch in the premiership im my opinion and is a great finisher and is capable of running in behind. Robbie Keane is also not the player you make him out to be he i just as creative as Berbatov and i also doubt he is faster than Rooney.

Keane is a clever player who plays well with Berbatov. You're right, Keane probably isnt faster than Rooney - about the same, but Rooney can't play every match. And Keane is faster than Manucho and Tevez.

Berbatov's finishing is better than Rooney and Tevez, but its not top notch. Often he'll hit a post when he really should score. Its good enough.

When Saha was at is best with Rooney he was not continually on the last shoulder like a Michael Owen, he was pushed right up, holding the ball up with Rooney flourishing in the space left behind. It was rare he was displaying blistering pace. It also seems to me Saha's finishing has got better as he has been injured he is not prolific.

Actually, when he was at his best - when Ryan Giggs came out with the statement "He's unplayable at the moment" it was his ability to work the channels and make runs in behind the defence that were catching the eye. This was creating the room Rooney needed to thrive in his best position, behind the front man.

Saha was never a great finisher.

As for Manucho i refuse to include him in this equation, if he works out it is a bonus. None of us have seen him play enough or at a high enough level to determine what his best attributes are or if he can have a big impact on the European Champions retaining their trophies.

Well, he's our player. He's in the equation whether we like it or not. Though it should be noted, we may be without him till Jan.

Another thing is where is all this space that the pacy striker is running into coming from because "playing on the last shoulder" is completely diferent from the sppedy counter attacks displayed last season. Do we watch the same team 95% of the teams playing at Old Trafford and also away from home play with ten men behind the ball and very deep making these oppurtunities few and far between. We have to find different ways with creative players like Berbatov to break them down and open the game up.

We have those players. Most sides would absolutely kill for a creative offstriker like Tevez or Rooney. We have 2 of them already. Whether Berbatov is better than them, I wont get into because we have those two already. But what we need to do is partner them with players who are going to make the most of it and players who will allow them to play their natural game best.

Saha did that for Rooney, Tevez did not.

And Berbatov plays for Spurs dropping off of Keane and letting him do the running, orchestrating things from behind. Which is largely what Tevez did for Rooney this season.

 

[Ekeke]

Anybody else disagree?

You silly boy

"We'll also have Manucho back from Panathinaikos. He showed in the Africa Cup of Nations what a big, powerful striker he is. So, along with Carlos Tevez and Wayne Rooney, we've got planty of strength in that department. But we do need experience."

From the article you linked, thats what SAF says. Here's what you turned it into, from your post :

"So we have to try to make up our minds on that, but it would help me if we could get another main striker in which would help the situation - someone with height."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai.../sfnman111.xml"

Well there you go then. Proof you'll just make things up if people dont agree with you. Pathetic

 

[Younited.7]

Ekeke

Running channels, holding the ball and playing in our deeper players does not require pace.

Berbatov does all of these things and is probably the best in the business in at least two of them.

You still have not directly related pace to what we require in a striker.

How did Sahas pace help us?

I do agree that we were playing our mosty liberated football at the time don't get me wrong.

It was his intelligence and ability with a football at his feet, not his over the top runs that allowed us the extra time and space. It doesn't take Maurice Green to move a defence about and put them out of position.

You fecking idiot; it clearly states that i will retrieve the quote in question.

Stop being a wanker.

Edit: Here is your sources:

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=94646

http://www.thegoalposts.com/showthread.php?p=706691

Direct quotes, not the greatest sources but i have discussed this at great length with other members. I am not making it up contrary to your pathetic slanderous beliefs.

 

[Ekeke]

Running channels, holding the ball and playing in our deeper players does not require pace.

Berbatov does all of these things and is probably the best in the business in at least two of them.

You still have not directly related pace to what we require in a striker.

How did Sahas pace help us?

I do agree that we were playing our mosty liberated football at the time don't get me wrong.

It was his intelligence and ability with a football at his feet, not his over the top runs that allowed us the extra time and space. It doesn't take Maurice Green to move a defence about and put them out of position.

It was his runs in behind the defence that meant the opposition couldnt play with a high line, restricting space where Rooney is at his best.

As for which teams get caught out by those kinds of passes? It was France's undoing in the euros. And Scholes and Carrick still managed to make those passes this season. Just not as often as if we were to have a player who isnt Wayne Rooney, making those runs.

Because that isnt where he's at his best. He's at his best when someone else is making them.

You fecking idiot; it clearly states that i will retrieve the quote in question.

Stop being a wanker.

Pathetic You're the one hurling insults left and right and saying things you cannot back up with quotes or linking to articles that do not contain them.

 

[Ekeke]

Running channels, holding the ball and playing in our deeper players does not require pace.

Berbatov does all of these things and is probably the best in the business in at least two of them.

You still have not directly related pace to what we require in a striker.

How did Sahas pace help us?

I do agree that we were playing our mosty liberated football at the time don't get me wrong.

It was his intelligence and ability with a football at his feet, not his over the top runs that allowed us the extra time and space. It doesn't take Maurice Green to move a defence about and put them out of position.

You fecking idiot; it clearly states that i will retrieve the quote in question.

Stop being a wanker.

Edit: Here is your sources:

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=94646

http://www.thegoalposts.com/showthread.php?p=706691

Direct quotes, not the greatest sources but i have discussed this at great length with other members. I am not making it up contrary to your pathetic slanderous beliefs.

Tribal

I watched the interview myself. He was directly asked, when talking about a new striker :

"Someone with height?"

His response :

"Possibly"

Yes. It's possible we might get someone with height. But its not something he himself brought up. Just something he didnt deny might be something he could look for.

If he were asked "Someone with speed?"

Would he have said :

"No." ?

He'd most likely have said "Possibly."

 

[Younited.7]

It was his runs in behind the defence that meant the opposition couldnt play with a high line, restricting space where Rooney is at his best.

As for which teams get caught out by those kinds of passes? It was France's undoing in the euros. And Scholes and Carrick still managed to make those passes this season. Just not as often as if we were to have a player who isnt Wayne Rooney, making those runs.

Because that isnt where he's at his best. He's at his best when someone else is making them.



Pathetic You're the one hurling insults left and right and saying things you cannot back up with quotes or linking to articles that do not contain them.

Backed up now so your points are invalidated.

Nevermind.

Your argument has petered out...

You cannot find a direct link between Sahas pace and Rooneys form that season because it has very little to do with it. Speed of thought maybe, but pace was secondary to Sahas intelligence and ability.

Yes it may have been Frances undoing in the Euros but who ran onto the ball...

Luca Toni - slowest striker in christendom.

 

[Fergies Formula]

omg EKEKE you talk so much shit, its impossible to have a proper conversation without your bullshit, pace pace pace, we need pace. United7 is right in this whole argument and you are just displaying your lack of inteligence in so many things you have said.

Saha hasnt been in the team all season and we havent lacked pace, tevez has done fine and sometimes looked a bit jaded, ferguson has said we are after experience and a bit more of a physical presence as an option because we cant count on saha anymore. Berbatov is not like rooney and tevez at all, id like to see how many time youve actually seen him play.

Again with manucho talking as if you have seen him play loads, a demon with his head and a deadly finisher, where do you get this from.. he is totally unproven and anything that comes from him is a bonus so dont expect anything at all.

Keane as fast as rooney!? it gets worse!

Berbatov is a quality player and is exaclty what we need, he might lack a tiny bit of pace but he makes up for it with his brain, in the modern game where its all about pace and athletism he still shines through, because he has a natrual stroke of genius which any team would benefit from. He can do both which is what you dont see, which is perfect for our fluid interchanging system, he holds the ball so well and has the best first touch in the league, he always retain possestion and makes space for himself and others.

I suggest you watch some more of berbatov before you start spouting garbage