Berbatov

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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Tevez isn't slow. What he lacks is quick acceleration. Over a short distance he doesn't pick up much speed. He is like a 200 meter runner in that sense.
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I said something different earlier...

I think that once he gets his head down he is pretty rapid and even over short distances, mainly when hassling other players, he is quick. When he has the ball it takes him a while to get going - being a playmaker he is often looking for a pass and whatnot so his initial thought isn't sprint or run, he likes to turn and keep the ball safe, an Argentinian trait actually.

You can see he isn't slow and could certainly beat a premiership defence running backwards ie ball over the top.
 
Brwned said:
Agreed, he was slowly becoming my favourite player ever since the end of the 05/06 season and I was hoping he could make a big impact this season. That worked out well.:smirk:

And then when it seemed he might be able to be our supersub for the Champions League final he went and got injured again. I lost any faith/sympathy for him from that moment.
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Tragic really.

He was always rated above Henry in the French youth setup, went to Fulham (few divisions below us) from Metz and worked his way up to the premiership with Al Fayeds backing. Got his big chance with us and it hasn't exactly worked out. I really thought he was going to be one of the best strikers in the world at the beginning of last season - needed to polish up on his finishing but he was capable of scoring sublime goals and contributing greatly to our overall play.

Nevermind.
 
Brwned said:
7 seconds from when he got the ball(at the halfway line) to scoring that goal, which is about doing 100m in 13s. I'm assuming that's good?



:confused: Depends what you want to believe. Are you saying he wants a fast striker?
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I'm saying not many people suggested we should sign Vidic and Evra. Most wanted Torres rather than Tevez. Nobody wanted Manucho. Half the caf didn't want Carrick. Half didnt want Hargreaves.

The majority doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. SAF knows better.
 
Ekeke said:
I'm saying not many people suggested we should sign Vidic and Evra. Most wanted Torres rather than Tevez. Nobody wanted Manucho. Half the caf didn't want Carrick. Half didnt want Hargreaves.

The majority doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. SAF knows better.
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That's fairly obvious, so really is that just you saying we should end this thread because really no-one knows who we will buy?

The chances of us buying Villa are around 25%, Berbatov would be about 60%. Don't you agree?
 
united.7 said:
Saha - reliant on pace and movement.


Do you watch football feckwit?

;)

Any more empirical evidence required then just check the tube.
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If we judge players on Youtube videos, Diego Forlan was the best striker of the past 5 years.

The only outstanding part of Saha's game is his pace and movement. For every good touch there are several bad ones. For every accurate pass there are several misplaced ones. For every good finish there are several bad ones.

JCLs may not realise this.
 
Brwned said:
That's fairly obvious, so really is that just you saying we should end this thread because really no-one knows who we will buy?

The chances of us buying Villa are around 25%, Berbatov would be about 60%. Don't you agree?
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Will you stop imaginging things? Where did I say that? Christ, thats pathetic :lol:

Edit - (Sorry, wrong poster) The other guy was being smarmy because he believes most here agree with him. I'm pointing out that in the grand scheme of things that means feck all because the one person who decides these things doesnt post here. And got help him if he did, he'd see quotes attributed to him that he's never said, he'd see fans rate Tevez as being more reliant on pace than our paciest player and he'd some that some people watch football in another dimension where Berbatov can outpace Anelka. He'd be horrified.
 
Ekeke said:
If we judge players on Youtube videos, Diego Forlan was the best striker of the past 5 years.

The only outstanding part of Saha's game is his pace and movement. For every good touch there are several bad ones. For every accurate pass there are several misplaced ones. For every good finish there are several bad ones.

JCLs may not realise this.
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Well that is a compilation from the beginning of last season, strictly what i was searching for - but don't worry yourself. So we should not look at compilatiosn of players because it only shows the good bits, tell that to scouts, we are looking at what he is capable of - not his consistency.

I cannot believe you are still here saying that he isn't techinically gifted - you won't even concede that when the facts are staring you in the face. He has had consistency issues, mainly to do with injuries but his game is not about pace - how can you not see that?

That was from 6 months of football.

:wenger:

Idiot.

Edit: Saha was acting as a target man, hence the headers and lot of play with his back to the goal. My point about Tevez is that Saha doesn't rely on his pace at all, he is technically proficient and doesn't need to, on the occasion he does use it - usually to good purpose. Tevez will use his pace in more aspects of his game and more often, understand now feckwit?
 
AttackingFlair said:
I think Tevez has shown this season pace isn't as big a part of his game than other attributes e.g close control etc. The reason being that his pace isn't that much of a player like Eto'o or Torres so it isn't a big part of his game. If he had pace like the two mentioned then pace would be a big part of his game but he doesn't so it isn't IMO.

As for Saha pace is a big aspect of his game and therefore it is more important to him than it is to Tevez. Face it, if you're better at something it's going to be more important to you.

Saha's pace >>>>> Tevez's so Saha is more reliant on it and Tevez not so much. You're claiming he is more reliant on it than Saha but I disagree as he's hardly shown blistering pace like an Eto'o would and other facets of his game he's relied on more than pace.
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this is correct, saha is more reliant on pace than tevez
 
Most seem to be. I think everyone except one person agrees Saha is more reliant on pace than Tevez, too.
 
Looks like he is heading in one direction, its got a sense of inevitablity about it, like with hargreaves... just hope ronaldo is there too, we will have an announcement in the next few days now that portugal are out(well pretty much at 2-0)
 
Fergies Formula said:
Looks like he is heading in one direction, its got a sense of inevitablity about it, like with hargreaves... just hope ronaldo is there too, we will have an announcement in the next few days now that portugal are out(well pretty much at 2-0)
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Thats because nobody else wanted Hargreaves and we were bidding on him for 2 years.

We bid for Berbatov before he went to Spurs - but not half what Spurs will want for him now. And other clubs do seem to want him.

And its 2 -1 now :lol:
 
Ekeke said:
Thats because nobody else wanted Hargreaves and we were bidding on him for 2 years.

We bid for Berbatov before he went to Spurs - but not half what Spurs will want for him now. And other clubs do seem to want him.

And its 2 -1 now :lol:
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Might have to wait a bit longer for the statement then, but i still think germany will go through with a goal on the counter.

I think that maybe only barcelona are interested in him but we are favorites, but i think we are clearly interested and so is he, it feels like it is a matter of time, thats why i made reference to the hargreaves transfer because of the prior flirting between parties.

If we get berbatov and keep ronaldo i can honestly seeing us doing the treble again, and the football will be even more breathtaking
 
Fergies Formula said:
Might have to wait a bit longer for the statement then, but i still think germany will go through with a goal on the counter.

I think that maybe only barcelona are interested in him but we are favorites, but i think we are clearly interested and so is he, it feels like it is a matter of time, thats why i made reference to the hargreaves transfer because of the prior flirting between parties.

If we get berbatov and keep ronaldo i can honestly seeing us doing the treble again, and the football will be even more breathtaking
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Well, we really dont know who is interested in Berbatov. If he is truly a good option for us, then he's a good option for Chelsea too and they need to replace a striker as well. I dare say they need his creative play more than we do.

And we really dont know if we're interested. We'll have to wait to hear about a bid. But it's going to have to be a lot more than the £10 million we tried to buy him with last time.
 
Ekeke said:
Well, we really dont know who is interested in Berbatov. If he is truly a good option for us, then he's a good option for Chelsea too and they need to replace a striker as well. I dare say they need his creative play more than we do.

And we really dont know if we're interested. We'll have to wait to hear about a bid. But it's going to have to be a lot more than the £10 million we tried to buy him with last time.
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We are interested, ferguson has commented on him, and his agent has commented on our interest.

No problem with it being more than 10 million he is worth it, up to 27 million i think would be fair.

Chelsea will probably get eto'o and if he goes anywhere in england, it wont be to another london club because Spurs would surely prefer him to come up north to us. And we could do with what he brings, creativity, compure, goals, assists, intelligence and genereal amazing plaqy
 
Fergies Formula said:
We are interested, ferguson has commented on him, and his agent has commented on our interest.

No problem with it being more than 10 million he is worth it, up to 27 million i think would be fair.

Chelsea will probably get eto'o and if he goes anywhere in england, it wont be to another london club because Spurs would surely prefer him to come up north to us. And we could do with what he brings, creativity, compure, goals, assists, intelligence and genereal amazing plaqy
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Agents say whatever they want. We havent bid for him since he's been at Spurs and Ferguson talks about a lot of players.

Spurs will want as much money as possible. Chelsea normally beat us in bidding wars. So we'll have to see if they are interested in him and if they aren't, why not?
 
AttackingFlair said:
I think Tevez has shown this season pace isn't as big a part of his game than other attributes e.g close control etc. The reason being that his pace isn't that much of a player like Eto'o or Torres so it isn't a big part of his game. If he had pace like the two mentioned then pace would be a big part of his game but he doesn't so it isn't IMO.

As for Saha pace is a big aspect of his game and therefore it is more important to him than it is to Tevez. Face it, if you're better at something it's going to be more important to you.

Saha's pace >>>>> Tevez's so Saha is more reliant on it and Tevez not so much. You're claiming he is more reliant on it than Saha but I disagree as he's hardly shown blistering pace like an Eto'o would and other facets of his game he's relied on more than pace.
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That isn't a logical progression, i am sorry but that isn't a proper argument.

Just because somebody is faster; does not mean they rely on that aspect more, you are making a causal connection between Saha having pace and actually using it more than Tevez.

Take for instance Hargreaves - apparently the fastest player in our squad does not rely on his pace more than say Ronaldo. Maybe that is a bad comparison because Ronaldo is very quick, debatably quicker. Lets take the comparison of Hargreaves and Evra, we know which one uses his more but we know which one is apparently faster. The position on the field that Hargreaves usually plays does not allow him to open his legs properly whereas Evra is often seen running full whack down the wings. Getting the point?

It is your opinion though and i respect that as you have not put it across in a pompous manner.

What i said was that Tevez is more reliant on his pace - even though he is probably slower than Saha - he chases the ball endlessly (stamina and pace), he gets more of an oppurtunity to run at defences than Saha did - who was playing as a target man for us. When talking of pace it can mean two things: The rate of running or the change in speed, often both. That doesn't imply that he is faster than Saha - just that it is more of a prominent part of his game. It is actually not a big part of either of their games - we hardly ever see them running at full pace like wider players would. The argument that i cannot answer or provide evidence to contradict is how Saha uses pace to befuddle defences, personally i think it is largely to do with his intelligence as opposed to his pace or speed, that is open for debate though.

People who say that Tevez isn't quick just aren't seeing the larger picture. He clearly is quick, not the quickest but he certainly uses his pace to his advantage - in my opinion more so than Saha did/does and that is founded on the belief that Sahas intelligence allows him to break free of his marker as opposed to his pace or rate of speed.
 
united.7 said:
People who say that Tevez isn't quick just aren't seeing the larger picture. He clearly is quick, not the quickest but he certainly uses his pace to his advantage - in my opinion more so than Saha did/does and that is founded on the belief that Sahas intelligence allows him to break free of his marker as opposed to his pace or rate of speed.
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Don't be fecking silly, he's as slow as arseholes - you're making 7 kinds of cnut out of yourself in this thread.
 
peterstorey said:
Don't be fecking silly, he's as slow as arseholes - you're making 7 kinds of cnut out of yourself in this thread.
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Never miss a good wind-up do you?

He isn't anywhere near a slow as people make out you belligerent arsehole.

Anyways...

How often do you see him play? The way you talk about our players it would seem that you watch us more than fecking Arsenal. Im sorry mate, mate? You consistently make an outward showing of cuntishness in every thread you grace so dont be calling me black.
 
peterstorey said:
Don't be fecking silly, he's as slow as arseholes - you're making 7 kinds of cnut out of yourself in this thread.
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Im sorry but Vidic, Scholes, Fletcher, Carrick, Brown, Ferdinand or Giggs (not any more) could run with the ball at their feet at that speed.

Are you implying that our whole team are as "slow as arseholes" or that it was some sort of lucky sprint?

Come on, answer instead of just rolling out silly jibes.
 
united.7 said:
That isn't a logical progression, i am sorry but that isn't a proper argument.

Just because somebody is faster; does not mean they rely on that aspect more, you are making a causal connection between Saha having pace and actually using it more than Tevez.

Take for instance Hargreaves - apparently the fastest player in our squad does not rely on his pace more than say Ronaldo. Maybe that is a bad comparison because Ronaldo is very quick, debatably quicker. Lets take the comparison of Hargreaves and Evra, we know which one uses his more but we know which one is apparently faster. The position on the field that Hargreaves usually plays does not allow him to open his legs properly whereas Evra is often seen running full whack down the wings. Getting the point?

It is your opinion though and i respect that as you have not put it across in a pompous manner.

What i said was that Tevez is more reliant on his pace - even though he is probably slower than Saha - he chases the ball endlessly (stamina and pace), he gets more of an oppurtunity to run at defences than Saha did - who was playing as a target man for us. When talking of pace it can mean two things: The rate of running or the change in speed, often both. That doesn't imply that he is faster than Saha - just that it is more of a prominent part of his game. It is actually not a big part of either of their games - we hardly ever see them running at full pace like wider players would. The argument that i cannot answer or provide evidence to contradict is how Saha uses pace to befuddle defences, personally i think it is largely to do with his intelligence as opposed to his pace or speed, that is open for debate though.

People who say that Tevez isn't quick just aren't seeing the larger picture. He clearly is quick, not the quickest but he certainly uses his pace to his advantage - in my opinion more so than Saha did/does and that is founded on the belief that Sahas intelligence allows him to break free of his marker as opposed to his pace or rate of speed.
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I'd probably settle on that but then again I just feel if Saha didn't have pace as he did he wouldn't be able to offer the option in behind as much and therefore would take away an aspect of his game. The fact that he has blistering pace means that this aspect of his game exists and therefore it is more important to him IMO.

I can understand what you are saying now so I apologise for laughing at your statement, it just seemed really wrong when I read it.
 
AttackingFlair said:
I'd probably settle on that but then again I just feel if Saha didn't have pace as he did he wouldn't be able to offer the option in behind as much and therefore would take away an aspect of his game. The fact that he has blistering pace means that this aspect of his game exists and therefore it is more important to him IMO.

I can understand what you are saying now so I apologise for laughing at your statement, it just seemed really wrong when I read it.
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I understand that...

You are probably right in the sense that a defence has to hold a deeper line to counter his acceleration. He was and probably still is a fantastically intelligent player in my opinion, i know he cannot always execute a move or stick the ball in the net and i think it's a shame that he never really got the time to iron these out of his game.

Relating back to the thread...

Berbatov has the intelligence to move defenders around, make runs or drop off. I think Ronaldo and Rooney would be chasing any ball played over the top as they really do have the pace to latch on to the ball and take advantage of a counter or break. More pace isn't necessarily what we require; just a good foil for all of our strikers and i think the bloke that made Keane look like a world beater would be perfect.
 
united.7 said:

Im sorry but Vidic, Scholes, Fletcher, Carrick, Brown, Ferdinand or Giggs (not any more) could run with the ball at their feet at that speed.

Are you implying that our whole team are as "slow as arseholes" or that it was some sort of lucky sprint?

Come on, answer instead of just rolling out silly jibes.
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Mate, dont worry about these people who think tevez is slow, they are clueless and arent worth the hassle, he clearly isnt slow, b last season he huffed and puffed a bit and looked slugish, but often the signs were still there. Next season we will see a much quicker sharper tevez, and i expect more goals, but 19 wasnt bad for his first season now was it, and how many of those were important ones!

Back to berbatov id say he is the same speed as tevez, probably faster but slower to accelerate, its close. I think now ronaldo is back in manchester we will start to see some developments with this transfer and other transfers, although even if ronnie stays i still think we will see berbatov in a red shirt this year, pleasE!!!

imagine this team

back 5
---carrick - anderson---
ronaldo - rooney - tevez
---------berbatov-------

Jesus wept:devil:
 
Fergies Formula said:
Mate, dont worry about these people who think tevez is slow, they are clueless and arent worth the hassle, he clearly isnt slow, b last season he huffed and puffed a bit and looked slugish, but often the signs were still there. Next season we will see a much quicker sharper tevez, and i expect more goals, but 19 wasnt bad for his first season now was it, and how many of those were important ones!

Back to berbatov id say he is the same speed as tevez, probably faster but slower to accelerate, its close. I think now ronaldo is back in manchester we will start to see some developments with this transfer and other transfers, although even if ronnie stays i still think we will see berbatov in a red shirt this year, pleasE!!!

imagine this team

back 5
---carrick - anderson---
ronaldo - rooney - tevez
---------berbatov-------

Jesus wept:devil:
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Barbatov would be a hold up striker, he doesn't need to be that fast.
 
But should Ronaldo go, is there anyone that could slot into that role? (If we don't want to discuss Ronaldo leaving then lets just imaghine he was injured)

Ronaldinho is the only player that springa to mind, although, could Nani do a job?
 
Nistelrooy10 said:
Barbatov would be a hold up striker, he doesn't need to be that fast.
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I know, I'm in agreement that we should go for him.

Brwned said:
With Tevez on the left wing?
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No, not so set and structured, we need a fluid system with no fixed positions, like the chief said with regard to holland, 3 floaters and a man up top, although with berbatov it would mean we are even more fluid and could have a variety of men who take up the lead forward role, but predominately it would be him.

esmufc07 said:
I thought you thought Berbatov isn't what we needed here? If so, how can that be good?
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Sam has changed his mind it seems and come round to the beautiful idea, we all you your not that stupid!;)
 
friendlytramp said:
But should Ronaldo go, is there anyone that could slot into that role? (If we don't want to discuss Ronaldo leaving then lets just imaghine he was injured)

Ronaldinho is the only player that springa to mind, although, could Nani do a job?
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when ronaldo goes (regardless if it is this summer or next),we shouldn't try to shoehorn a player into his position.

we should evolve our play to suit the players we have/can get instead of trying to replace ronaldo. ronaldo is unique and no player in the world can directly replace him like for like.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No. Just remember the Dutch in this Euro tournament. Basically a free role attacking 3 behind a holding up 1
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I doubt we would ever play that way, it would end up with Rooney on the left chasing the right back up and down the touchline all night.

Would be great to see though.
 
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