Berbatov
- Thread starter GusHiddink
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
And he's English, sold to an English club and has the potential to be a £16.5 million goalscorer, in my opinion. He's had a hard time at Spurs, for sure but its only 1 year and Keane - Berbatov is probably the best partnership of any strikeforce in the premiership. Add to that Bent could only come in for Keane, not Berbatov as he is a goalscorer, not creator and the fact Robbie Keane has been Spurs' highest goalscorer for all but 1 of the last 5 years. It was a hugely bad move for Bent in retrospect of course - the only people who might have ousted Keane are the likes of Rooney, who you'd never get for £16.5 million.
Im undecided on Berbatov. He is a class striker but his lack of pace and price tag do worry me.
Why do people get worried about the price tag, out of interest?
United's debt, I suppose.
Why do they get worried about Ronaldo's price tag?
Debts. Either that or they think its coming out of their own pockets and they dont trust Fergie when it comes to valuing a player.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/52233/Spurs-will-take-25m-for-Berba
Sunday July 13,2008
By Paul Hetherington
Tottenham have dismissed Manchester United’s bid of £20million for Dimitar Berbatov as derisory – but they will accept £25m before next month’s transfer window closes.
Spurs have told United manager Sir Alex Ferguson they want £35m for the skilful striker – a valuation that is based on a £33m bid they received from Manchester City in January.
But United just have to up their initial offer to £25m – and the brilliant Bulgarian would be lining up alongside Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez in a few weeks.
Spurs know that Berbatov, 27, is determined to go and United are confident of clinching the signing of Ferguson’s top transfer target because they know the White Hart Lane club need to raise money to pursue their own transfer targets.
Manager Juande Ramos needs £17million for Blackburn’s David Bentley and £11m for Espanyol striker Luis Garcia.
Ramos, therefore, has sanctioned the sale of Berbatov, but Spurs chairman Daniel Levy wants that extra £5m from United.
Ferguson, while always on the lookout to recruit promising young talent, intends making only one major signing this summer – and that player is Berbatov, whose skills and finishing ability are greatly admired by the boss of the Premier League champions and Champions League winners.
And United’s fans will welcome a shift in emphasis from the Cristiano Ronaldo transfer saga to the chase for Berbatov.
But a Spurs spokesman last night insisted that Berbatov was not for sale and had not handed in a transfer request.
Sunday July 13,2008
By Paul Hetherington
Tottenham have dismissed Manchester United’s bid of £20million for Dimitar Berbatov as derisory – but they will accept £25m before next month’s transfer window closes.
Spurs have told United manager Sir Alex Ferguson they want £35m for the skilful striker – a valuation that is based on a £33m bid they received from Manchester City in January.
But United just have to up their initial offer to £25m – and the brilliant Bulgarian would be lining up alongside Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez in a few weeks.
Spurs know that Berbatov, 27, is determined to go and United are confident of clinching the signing of Ferguson’s top transfer target because they know the White Hart Lane club need to raise money to pursue their own transfer targets.
Manager Juande Ramos needs £17million for Blackburn’s David Bentley and £11m for Espanyol striker Luis Garcia.
Ramos, therefore, has sanctioned the sale of Berbatov, but Spurs chairman Daniel Levy wants that extra £5m from United.
Ferguson, while always on the lookout to recruit promising young talent, intends making only one major signing this summer – and that player is Berbatov, whose skills and finishing ability are greatly admired by the boss of the Premier League champions and Champions League winners.
And United’s fans will welcome a shift in emphasis from the Cristiano Ronaldo transfer saga to the chase for Berbatov.
But a Spurs spokesman last night insisted that Berbatov was not for sale and had not handed in a transfer request.
No quotes. Complete Bollocks.
We'll soon find out. it would be nice cus weve shit out enough this close season.
Why won't these Berbatov rumours die a horrible, horrible death
I hope to God we don't give Spurs even more money. They practically live off overcharging us for their players.
I hope to God we don't give Spurs even more money. They practically live off overcharging us for their players.
In all seriousness, I hope the £20 million bid was true. A very fair bid for an excellent player - one I dont think fits if we plan on signing Tevez, but a good one none the less and a much better partner for Rooney than some we've been linked with, like Huntelaar.
But if we spend £25 million or more on him, I will be expecting him to do almost unspeakable and unprecedented things for the club during his time here. I'd expect him to become simply the best striker on the planet - which I dont regard him close to being at the moment.
But if we spend £25 million or more on him, I will be expecting him to do almost unspeakable and unprecedented things for the club during his time here. I'd expect him to become simply the best striker on the planet - which I dont regard him close to being at the moment.
Berbatov is class and with the quality supply we offer could be another Eric...although I'd settle for another Teddy S. Definitely worth the gamble.
That's unfair. In the current market the best striker in the world would be worth more than £25m so it's unfair to simply claim that a player should be the best in his position if he is bought for £25m. If £20m is a fair bid then why should £5m extra mean the player should be the best in his position?
If we look at other prices, Nani and Anderson at £17/£18m that's like £2m off the £20m bid for Berbatov if it is true. I know they are youngsters but Berbatov is proven in the PL and due to his playing style has more years left in him anyway.
Rooney before was over £25m, does that mean we should have expected him to be the best striker on the planet?
Adebayor is being linked with moves close to £30m, does that mean he should be the best striker in the world?
Completely unfair. We're going to have to pay a big price regardless and it shouldn't be doubted that Berbatov will improve us. It's up to us if we want to spend big on proven quality or if we want to buy a cheaper forward.
There are better strikers than Berbatov but there also better players than every other player we are usually linked to.
I'm sorry Gus, you can argue til your blue in the face, Van Nistlerooy is a better striker than Berbatov. That'll be why he's played for PSV (62 in 67 games), United (95 in 150) and Madrid (41 in 61); while Berbatov has played for Sofia (25 in 50 games), Leverkusen (69 in 154) and Spurs (27 in 69). Yes there's more to a player than just goalscoring, but in the case of Berbatov compared to Van Nistlerooy, no there isn't. And certainly not, if reports are true regarding how much Spurs want for him, worth over £10million more than we paid for Ruud (2 years younger than Berbs is at the time of his purchase too)
Now we don't have Ruud anymore, so it doesn't matter anyway. Berbatov is a type of striker we don't currently have at the club. Personally, I'm not overly keen on us signing him, I'm still hoping we might put a suprising bid in for Eto'o given his availability. I'd be very happy spending £30million on him!
People want value for money, its nothing to do with 'debt' at all. You look like mugs when you overspend for a player, especially if another club signs a better player for less. The player also has to carry his pricetag round his neck, if you've paid over the odds, its piling the pressure on him. And if a team has a certain budget and needs to bring in more than one player, you don't want to see it wasted needlessly
If Man City offered 33mil in January, then I'll be happy if we get Berbs for less money because he wants to come to us.
I don't know where the press get their figures from sometimes (I assume usually its from that handy source of hot air they keep nearby)
If Spurs really rejected £33million in January for Berbatov:
1) They are chumps and
2) They won't accept anything less for him now
If you ask me, there are better, younger strikers I reckon would be available to us at that kind of price
For £33 million we could get Benzema.
Yes, but this is only true because fans care about transfer fees. Ie, the only reason price tags pile on the pressure is because fans expect a higher level for players that cost more. That wouldn't be true if fans didn't care about transfer fees. So the added pressure isn't really an explanation for why fans care about fees, is it? It's circular logic.Brad said:
Let's say in one transfer window, the team is in need of repair. Fergie wants four players and pays 5m for each of them. If they come good, Fergie is hailed for getting a few bargains.Brad said:
But what if the team is already in a good place, and we only need one player. Is it really so different to spend 20m on the one player who will make the difference? Either way, 20m is being spent, and the team is 'complete' in Fergie's view.
What I'd like to highlight is that price tags are normally compared to each individual player. But Fergie may adopt a more general / global logic. Instead of asking whether Berbatov is worth 20m, he probably asks whether it's worth 20m to complete his team.
Because he's not and I'm not sure he ever will be, with us or anyone else. Remains to be seen of course.
Rooney was the best player in his position (off striker) on the planet, in my opinion, before this year where we've put him in another position that has exposed some of the weaker points of his game. We'll have to see if he's at the same level as an offstriker next year - if we sign the right player to partner him, that is.
He could possibly be even better than before, as he's a year older with more experience and he's improved his runs. But its plain to see his dribbling and ranged shooting have gone off the boil.
Any team that signs Adebayor now gets a player who at 24 years of age, is one of the best strikers in the world. He'll give them many years of service and they will hope that within 1 or 2 of them he'll start to peak and be the best striker in the world, yes.
He may be better but he makes Tevez's purchase at £20-30 million redundant. Berbatov is not Rooney's ideal partner and every year we look to improve the side. It could be that next year we decide not to keep Tevez and spend the money more effectively.
For me Tevez - Berbatov is a partnership I wouldnt want starting for my club. It's good, not great - yet cost up to £60 million. That's ridiculous.
For me we need to find a player who is revered as a lead-the-line striker who will make the most of Rooney's talents. A player who will run the channels and chase lost causes, so that Rooney doesn't have to do it. While also balancing out the weaker points in Rooney's game. Afterall, a partnership is all about the balance. See Rio and Vida. So someone who is sure-fire in front of goal with their finishing and will get onto the end of Rooney's through-passes again and again.
What we'd be buying in Berbatov is another creative player. Another one who had the player chasing lost causes at his former club (Keane) and would be coming to United to play that role himself. We'd be looking for him to go back to his Leverkusen role as the goalscorer and much less the creator. We'd need him to shake off the 'lazy' tag and work the hard yards as much as Rooney does, so that we get the best of Wayne too.
My concern with the partnership would be that this doesnt happen and it ends up being Berbatov and Keane MkII - with Rooney doing all the running in front of Berbatov's creativity and playing the same way he did this season. Yes it would be a bit of an improvement because Berbatov is a better player than the unsettled Tevez we saw this season, but we'd be paying a premium for something we didnt need and would still require upgrading.
I sort of assumed that City were the only ones offering that much, and that Berbatov was always going to reject a transfer to City.
I don't know of any better, younger players at a price of 25mil. We've already asked about Benzema and been told 48mil if the papers are to be believed. I suspect Huntelaar is too slow and would flop in the Premiership which must at least be a doubt for United because it looks like he would come to us if we wanted him.
What other younger, better strikers are there? We already have Tevez and Rooney, so if we are buying it'll be someone who can lead the line in a way they cannot. Who is there?
I think the club has done its homework, and Berbatov is the preferred option if Benzema isn't on. But if Berbs is too pricey, then Huntelaar will be as good a young striker to take a chance on as any out there.
I don't think Berbatov will ever be the best striker in the world, but ability wise he is up there with the best. In the premiership, there are not many better at all and thus, he would improve us.
I disagree that he was the best player in his position but that's another story. I do think he'd reach a higher level with the right partner too and I think Berbatov would be one of the best partners for him.
The only thing Adebayor has on Berbatov is age and even then due to his playing style Berbatov will be able to play for more years. I don't think Adebayor has the ability to be the best striker in the world and neither do I think Berbatov has. As a footballer I still rate Berbatov ahead of him though. Adebayor had the better season (last) though.
In fairness, Keane/Berbatov is arguably the best striking partnership in the premiership. Rooney is a huge upgrade on Keane and I think Rooney/Berbatov would be a fantastic partnership. Berbatov can hold up the ball and release it to the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo which is something that we could do with. We also have the option of delivering from wide areas because Berbatov can convert with volleys or headers or setting up a team mate as he's proven to do so. Berbatov can also receive the final ball and finish as he's proven to do so in the premiership and those who have posted videos have proof of this.
I would love us to buy someone like Benzema or Ibra or Eto'o but I can't see that happening. However, I'd be happy with Berbatov as I believe Rooney would be excellent partnered with him still. Even though there are better options, I still think this partnership would get the best out of Rooney.
You don't think so because you think we need someone with pace playing on the last man, right? That is not entirely necessary to get the best out of Rooney. Someone with a physical presence would be great.. someone with that and pace would be even better, I agree. However, I still feel Berbatov would be great with Rooney and even then he has shown he can receive balls from the last man and finish. That goal vs Chelsea in the FA Cup? etc. That and on top Berbatov has immense creativity which is an additional huge plus and also one of the best first touches in football.
If Ferguson signs him it will be at a fee which he is happy with and thinks he is worth. He will also sign him because he thinks he will fit into the team and compliments the players we have regardless of whether they are off strikers or other comparisons. At the end of the day nobody knows what the eventual fee will be etc and what members of an internet forum think means very little. I have enough faith in Fergie to wait and see if he indeed signs and how things then pan out. Berbatovs talent is unquestioned and Ferguson is a better judge of character than most.
So you would have preferred it if we did not sign Micheal Carrick then?
The News of the World are saying the deal is done for £24million, with Berbatov to sign a four-year contract worth £80,000 a week .
Supposedly waiting until Spurs can bring in a replacement to announce it.
http://blogs.notw.co.uk/sport/2008/07/berbatov-to-uni.html
Supposedly waiting until Spurs can bring in a replacement to announce it.
http://blogs.notw.co.uk/sport/2008/07/berbatov-to-uni.html
Is he for sale? Does he actually want to move to United this summer if at all? Is Ferguson willing to spend that on a player who is talented but largely unproven? Apologies, if this is actually you Jean-Michel Aulas.
Its completely untested, for your to right it off before its even been tried is silly really, two quality players who could make things work
, sir alex knows a lot more than us, have a bit of faith in him that he knows what he is doingIts completely untested, for your to right it off before its even been tried is silly really, two quality players who could make things work
I am not totally convinced that Berbatov is the right striker for us, while he's a great talent, has a incredible first touch and he's a lot stronger on the ball than he looks, I wonder about his attitude and whether he has enough pace to fit in the team we have now. But as you say Sir Alex knows a lot more than us and if he feels he's the right striker for us at this time, than that's good enough me.
I wonder how many of you were complaining about signing Yorke from Villa for the record fee and how many of you experts were "convinced" that we payed over the odds and that he's not the right striker for us
I have mixed feelings about this deal. Not that I have any doubts regarding Berbatov, whom, I had already stated that he is one of the best strikers in the world. But about the fee we should pay for.
In normal circumstances I wouldn't spend anything above 18m for a 27 yr old, expecially for someone whom we don't need desperately (ok we need a striker but the Tevez-Rooney tandem had served us well). Some may say that fees should not be an issue but they are wrong. Spending ridiculous money on a player isn't just morally and financially bad but will send the wrong message that we throw money in the bin, and clubs will remember that in the future when they will start negotiating a deal for their players.
There again these are not normal circumstances. The Ronaldo's saga had hit us hard at a global level hindering our 'attraction' power. We need to re affirm ourselves as big players in the transfer market and we just have to start cutting off our Ronaldo's dependency (since I doubt that he will be here for long), the Berbatov deal is a step to the right direction.
In normal circumstances I wouldn't spend anything above 18m for a 27 yr old, expecially for someone whom we don't need desperately (ok we need a striker but the Tevez-Rooney tandem had served us well). Some may say that fees should not be an issue but they are wrong. Spending ridiculous money on a player isn't just morally and financially bad but will send the wrong message that we throw money in the bin, and clubs will remember that in the future when they will start negotiating a deal for their players.
There again these are not normal circumstances. The Ronaldo's saga had hit us hard at a global level hindering our 'attraction' power. We need to re affirm ourselves as big players in the transfer market and we just have to start cutting off our Ronaldo's dependency (since I doubt that he will be here for long), the Berbatov deal is a step to the right direction.
Too many of you seem to think forming an effective striker partnership is all black and white.
'He does this, so he'll have to do that, whilst he won't be able to do that anymore' logic.
It's not that simple, lots of grey areas, and the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Do any of you really doubt SAF on getting this one right? I certainly don't.
For me, Berbatov is the man for United.
'He does this, so he'll have to do that, whilst he won't be able to do that anymore' logic.
It's not that simple, lots of grey areas, and the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Do any of you really doubt SAF on getting this one right? I certainly don't.
For me, Berbatov is the man for United.
You shouldn't look at just the players age. You should look at how long they will stay at the top of their game, as different players age better than others. Adebayor will probably, like most players, stay at the top until he's 29-30 and then start falling away. Whereas Berbatov's style of play means he will likely remain at the top of his game until he's around 32. So they've both got 5 or 6 seasons left to play until their game starts deteriorating.
Their calender age may be 3 years different, but if the older one will play for comparitively 3 years longer then realistically what is the difference?
I've got exactly the opposite point of view on this. I want Rooney to take tips off Keane as to how to play with Berbatov. It's hardly a case of Berbatov dropping deep constantly and Keane having to always stay up front. It's more Berbatov stays up front when the opposition has the ball to give Spurs a target man and someone capable of then holding up the ball until his team-mates get into positions to recieve it. And when Spurs have the ball the two of them interchange perfectly, working better as a partnership than any I've seen since Yorke/Cole.
A lot of people have been saying over the last two seasons that Rooney is too focused on playing for the team and needs to be a bit more selfish at times. I think that Berbatov will allow him do to this perfectly. I don't want Rooney to be upfront all the time, expected to win the ball and hold it when we are on the backfoot. But I don't want him in behind doing all the creative work either. I want him playing in behind, but still hitting the holes and making the runs off his main striker. And Berbatov, more than any other striker in the world, will put Rooney into those spaces.
A Berbatov/Rooney combo should bring all the positives of the Rooney/Tevez combo (except the hard work and graft of Tevez), while improving both positions. Berbatov is more natural and effective up front, and Rooney is superior to Tevez in behind. I admit I do have a slight worry about the relative lack of pace a Berbatov/Tevez combo would bring, but they are good enough they should still open teams up (especially with Ronaldo on the wing).
That is a complete and utter guess. Its best to work with the numbers in front of you and be sensible. After the age of 30 he is most likely to decline, certainly not improve and his decline may or may not mean he's unable to play at the same level but it likely will, over time.
I'd rather see the best of Wayne Rooney, than most of the best of Robbie Keane. Keane is a finisher and Rooney is not. Keane has not been known to dribble past half a team of players or blast the ball into the back of the net from 20 yards every 2 weeks.
I guess its all about what you would like to see Wayne Rooney become. The player we had, but at his best. Or another player.
Obviously he is the man for Utd. What we have been lacking is department upfront and this is exactly what we are fixing.
Berbs didnt come to be on bench as i expect him to start alongside Rooney.
Anyway Tevez gives another option to the team and can even play on the wing as he has done for Argentina before. Let's remember Ronaldo is injured and Nani suspended for some games. We are gonna see some changes that will help our team and at the same time we wont lose our way to play.
The difference is Berbs is not predictable as was Ruud, he gives a lot of assists and his first touch is fecking class.
Coming around to the idea a bit here devilish.
A month ago the situation about Ronaldo wasn't as terrible as it is now. The chances that he would have remained was reasonably high + even if he left the club's 'attraction' power was still intact. Unfortunately since that time we had all kinds of attacks from people you wouldn't have expected to turn against us. The club needs to show that despite everything, we still want to win and have the finances to do so. Its similar to what happened to Juventus after Zidane left. They quickly moved in the transfer market for Inzaghi, Buffon and Nedved which was quite amazing expecially for a club who rarely spents loads of money in the transfer market.
As an Arsenal fan you acknowledge that you simply can't afford of being labelled not ambitious enough. When you do so, players will start leaving en masse or they would try to do so. Take Arsenal. Flamini and Lehmann had left and important players such as Adebayor and Hleb are on their way out too. This is a trend that Arsenal has had to face year in year out, with important players such as Viera and Henry leaving the club for one reason or another.
There again we should consider all our options because 20m+ is quite a big sum expecially for a 27 yr old.
Obviously it's a guess. But it's an educated guess. Players who rely mostly on intelligence and skill generally play for a few more seasons than players who rely on their physical attributes.
Looking purely at their biological age and ignoring the surrounding factors is only seeing half the picture.
When was the last time Rooney dribbled past half a team or regularly took a shot from distance? He's barely done it the last two seasons as he's been playing as too-much of a team player, focused on creating things for everyone else instead of trying to do things himself. Having Berbatov upfront will mean that Rooney won't have to worry about creating so much, and should encourage him to be a little more selfish.
So yes, you want him to become another Robbie Keane.
He didn't do anything of the sort this season because he was playing a different role which means his energies were spent elsewhere. This is what we need to replace - someone to do the ugly stuff, and put the ball in the back of the net.
As for the age and amount of time he could play, injury could put an end to that at any point. It's not worth thinking about till it happens.
There doesn't have to be any ugly stuff, really, but if there does, then Tevez is the man. He's feck ugly.
I am still not sure about Berbatov.
Hes a very good player but lacks pace and also I think there is an issue with his attitude. The type of player who would get in a mood and cause problems if he didnt play every game etc
He fell out with Jol and Ramos didnt like his attitude (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1413705.ece)
Hes a very good player but lacks pace and also I think there is an issue with his attitude. The type of player who would get in a mood and cause problems if he didnt play every game etc
He fell out with Jol and Ramos didnt like his attitude (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1413705.ece)
- Status