Best CB pairing

[Buster_II]

Gentlemen, I've been supporting United for 50+ years ...... I never thought I would be saying these words.....

I'd rather watch Liverpool than to see the absolute dross dished up by Mourinho's blunderers!

 

[MUFC OK]

Gentlemen, I've been supporting United for 50+ years ...... I never thought I would be saying these words.....

I'd rather watch Liverpool than to see the absolute dross dished up by Mourinho's blunderers!

Really? Relegation in the 70's, most of the 80's where they players were on the booze, the sheer embarrassment of Moyes and the worst football we've ever seen under LVG but this is the lowest point?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Gentlemen, I've been supporting United for 50+ years ...... I never thought I would be saying these words.....

I'd rather watch Liverpool than to see the absolute dross dished up by Mourinho's blunderers!

You haven’t if you think this is the worst!
Please go and support Liverpool

 

[MUFC OK]

You haven’t if you think this is the worst!
Please go and support Liverpool

It's a joke mate, Jose has by all accounts done well with what he inherited here and improved us, yet some fans seem more displeased, and less lenient with him than the previous two absolute horror show appointments. It's mostly agenda driven imo, from those who never wanted him here in the first place.

 

[MadMike]

I shall try again if you read my post attentively, I was referring to our CD partnership Jones and Smalling and that have not evolved the way it should've due to injury. They should be our senior players bedding in the younger ones.

Here are Smallings injury stats of the past years, won't bother with Jones, it is only the last season he hasn't picked up some injury of note.

16/17 Knee injury Mar 23, 2017 May 1, 2017 39 days
16/17 Foot injury Oct 24, 2016 Dec 15, 2016 52 days
15/16 Shoulder injury Feb 22, 2016 Mar 7, 2016 14 days
14/15 Groin Injury Dec 8, 2014 Dec 25, 2014 17 days
14/15 Hamstring Injury Sep 25, 2014 Oct 6, 2014 11 days
13/14 Hamstring Injury Dec 5, 2013 Dec 16, 2013 11 days
12/13 Metatarsal fracture Jul 19, 2012 Nov 1, 2012 105 days
11/12 Head injury Mar 1, 2012 Mar 8, 2012 7 days

First off, I read your post attentively. You used plural in "injury prone bodies" and never made any distinction when you said Smalling and Jones didn't evolve due continually being injured. If you meant that the pairing didn't evolve due to injuries mostly to the latter then the onus is on you to write it better than this, rather than indicating people should read more attentively.

Secondly "injury prone" is player that picks up more injuries than the rest of the players on average. It's a physical sport everyone picks injuries from time to time. 8 injuries in 8 years with 5 of them not being longer than a couple of weeks, is a very good attendance record for a CB. Pick 8-year-long history records for other CBs in their late twenties and show me how many, if any, have a better record.

You didn't exactly refute my point there with your post, you more like validated it

 

[RedorDead21]

It's a joke mate, Jose has by all accounts done well with what he inherited here and improved us, yet some fans seem more displeased, and less lenient with him than the previous two absolute horror show appointments. It's mostly agenda driven imo, from those who never wanted him here in the first place.

Pretty simple to shut them up from Jose's perspective.....You can't hide the fact not knowing your best 11 at this stage for him is just odd. I think he's probably never seen such inconsistent players and hence why that is. I'm a fan of old Jose but this hybrid just isn't working. Waiting until half time to make a change. Jesus that 1950s for him.

 

[devilish]

We are pretty much in the same situation when we had Foster and Carroll fighting for a first team place. One would come in, he would give us 3 good games then he would make a ridiculous mistakes only for the other to step in the next game. Then we'll repeat the same cycle again and again. The solution to that problem was a mass clean up followed by us signing a top quality GK

 

[MUFC OK]

We are pretty much in the same situation when we had Foster and Carroll fighting for a first team place. One would come in, he would give us 3 good games then he would make a ridiculous mistakes only for the other to step in the next game. Then we'll repeat the same cycle again and again. The solution to that problem was a mass clean up followed by us signing a top quality GK

Good analogy, in reality what we have isn't good enough. This is why Toby was close to essential and its no secret Jose wanted to strengthen there. if Spurs want to screw us they should sell to PSG for a nominal fee.

 

[Marcky411]

First off, I read your post attentively. You used plural in "injury prone bodies" and never made any distinction when you said Smalling and Jones didn't evolve due continually being injured. If you meant that the pairing didn't evolve due to injuries mostly to the latter then the onus is on you to write it better than this, rather than indicating people should read more attentively.

Secondly "injury prone" is player that picks up more injuries than the rest of the players on average. It's a physical sport everyone picks injuries from time to time. 8 injuries in 8 years with 5 of them not being longer than a couple of weeks, is a very good attendance record for a CB. Pick 8-year-long history records for other CBs in their late twenties and show me how many, if any, have a better record.

You didn't exactly refute my point there with your post, you more like validated it

You right I was looking for an explanation why Smalling after all these years is still cr@p. I cannot blame it injuries, maybe it is because he looks like a wounded fawn in our defense that gave me that idea.

 

[stevoc]

I like Bailly and have often defended him at times, but the best pairing is anyone's guess. Jones and Rojo seem to be on the outs just now but picking two from five just now is almost like picking the least worst two of the five rather than the best two.
What the pairing for next Monday will be is anyone's guess. I think Smalling will possibly start and Gary Neville mentioned yesterday it might be a back three in the next game, but who knows.

Hope not, we don't have the best bunch of centrebacks in the squad currently. Playing more of them is more likely to exacerbate the problem as opposed to solving it.

 

[devilish]

Good analogy, in reality what we have isn't good enough. This is why Toby was close to essential and its no secret Jose wanted to strengthen there. if Spurs want to screw us they should sell to PSG for a nominal fee.

We've seen this happening before even during SAF's time. After the treble United's defence needed TLC. Schmeichel left, Irwin was old + May and Johnsen's injuries became more frequent. You would expect that a team who just won the treble would have the means to replace quality with quality. Instead United decided to opt for the pound shop signings. Bosnich was signed on a free to replace the great Dane and Irwin was replaced by Silvestre who was so shit, that after few months from signing with Inter he was kicked into their reserves. The final insult came when we sold Stam to Lazio. We replaced the best defender SAF had ever signed till that time with yet another Inter's reserve ie a 36 year old Laurent Blanc was signed to replace him. Back then we also had the cheek to taunt Leeds for having the audacity of spending 18m on a certain Rio Ferdinand. If Rio is worth 18m then how much does Wes Brown is worth? 30M? A big chunk of players within the treble side would never raise another CL again, not with us anyway, which is a shame.

Guess what? Nothing worked and United were forced to spent big money to bring in top players. The first building block was Rio. Leeds saw the irony of it and asked us 30m for him. Then came all the others ie Vidic, Heinze, Evra etc. By the end we only had 1 first teamer who remembered that poor excuse of a defense ie Gary Neville. Which is fair enough considering that he was also present in the great treble side.

United had always been like that. We are stubborn, we hype our players, we are slow in getting rid of players who are not good enough/not good anymore and we tend to be too skint to go on for top quality even when we need it. We need to change our ways. As rule of thumb if a first teamer doesn't perform in the previous season then he won't be a first teamer next season. If he fail to perform the season after then he might as well pack his stuff and start searching for a new job elsewhere. Instead Shaw and Rojo are in their 4th year, Jones is in his 7th year while Smalling is in his 8th (which is around the same time we needed to get rid of the great beef eater Anderson)

Such strategy will keep players on their toes and ironically it would also protect investment. A buyer would be more willing to gamble on a player who has 1-2 bad seasons with united rather then do the same to buy a proven serial loser.

 

[Bestietom]

Everyone is crying about our CB's being too slow and injury prone, and then we loan out 2 young players in Fosu and Tuanzebe who could have fit in alongside one of these and add the mobility needed.

 

[Chabon]

Smalling & Evans, it's been the case ever since Fergie left.

What's that you say? Oh, I see. What exactly has been going on here...

 

[RedorDead21]

Everyone is crying about our CB's being too slow and injury prone, and then we loan out 2 young players in Fosu and Tuanzebe who could have fit in alongside one of these and add the mobility needed.

Not the answer at all. We have enough young players adding more is just silly right now. Ideally you bed youngsters in when the vultures are not overhead.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'd go with Bailly-Smalling

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

We have enough young players adding more is just silly right now

Not in defence or midfield. I'd gladly take TFM to get a run against bottom table teams.

 

[Ekeke]

This is our record from last season. Fantastic defending in open play, a weakness to set pieces and caught a few times on the counter attack.

With Bailly and Lindelof we currently have 2 goals from open play, 0 from counters, 1 from set pieces and 1 from a penalty.

Before we had a very solid defense that mainly just needed the team as a whole to tighten up on set pieces. Now we're kinda weak defensively in every situation

 

[MUFC OK]

Best Man Utd defensive partnerships of Mourinho era
Pairing Games played Win percentage
Smalling/Jones 13 - 46.1%
Jones/Bailly 9 - 88.9%
Bailly/Smalling 7 - 55%
Lindelof/Smalling 7 - 86%
Lindelof/Bailly 2 - 50%
Lindelof/Jones 2 - 0%

Interesting stats from Sky Sports. so Jones/Bailly and Lindelof/Smalling are our best CB pairings in terms of win %. Would be interesting to see how many clean sheets we had with each pairing.

 

[Hammondo]

Best Man Utd defensive partnerships of Mourinho era
Pairing Games played Win percentage
Smalling/Jones 13 - 46.1%
Jones/Bailly 9 - 88.9%
Bailly/Smalling 7 - 55%
Lindelof/Smalling 7 - 86%
Lindelof/Bailly 2 - 50%
Lindelof/Jones 2 - 0%

Interesting stats from Sky Sports. so Jones/Bailly and Lindelof/Smalling are our best CB pairings in terms of win %. Would be interesting to see how many clean sheets we had with each pairing.

Ok but this might be misleading. If we win 4-3 but lose 0-1 then the win stats make it look better defensively for us if we concede 3 than 1.

 

[MUFC OK]

Ok but this might be misleading. If we win 4-3 but lose 0-1 then the win stats make it look better defensively for us if we concede 3 than 1.

hence why I said would be good to see CS %. Goals conceded is probably a better barometer though.

 

[Leftback99]

Best Man Utd defensive partnerships of Mourinho era
Pairing Games played Win percentage
Smalling/Jones 13 - 46.1%
Jones/Bailly 9 - 88.9%
Bailly/Smalling 7 - 55%
Lindelof/Smalling 7 - 86%
Lindelof/Bailly 2 - 50%
Lindelof/Jones 2 - 0%

Interesting stats from Sky Sports. so Jones/Bailly and Lindelof/Smalling are our best CB pairings in terms of win %. Would be interesting to see how many clean sheets we had with each pairing.

This doesn't really mean anything without seeing the quality of opposition, whether we were home or away, who were the full backs etc

 

[Kyriacandro]

Personally id go jones and rojo

 

[AlwaysRed66]

People go on about Jones & Smalling, but in all the years I have seen both of them, neither have given such a shocking display as what Bailly did at Brighton. If they had a half as bad display people on these boards would be demanding they were tarred & feathered & kicked out of the club.

 

[Canagel]

Bailly is still our best defender. He's allowed to have one bad game. Look at how many times he's saved us when strikers are running through on goal. He's been very good for us until Jose dropped him at the back end of last season. He needed the confidence to keep playing and we would've reaped the rewards this season.

 

[Rossa]

Everyone is crying about our CB's being too slow and injury prone, and then we loan out 2 young players in Fosu and Tuanzebe who could have fit in alongside one of these and add the mobility needed.

Now we are just making things up. Bailly and Smalling are downright rapid. Jones is fast. Rojo is decent as is Lindelöf. None of them are slow. Jones and Rojo are injury prone, Bailly is yet to be determined. I think individually they are fine, but there isn't a great pairing there. I had hopes for Lindelöf and Bailly, but I fear neither is good enough in the air.

 

[Rossa]

Bailly is still our best defender. He's allowed to have one bad game. Look at how many times he's saved us when strikers are running through on goal. He's been very good for us until Jose dropped him at the back end of last season. He needed the confidence to keep playing and we would've reaped the rewards this season.

Based on? He often saves us from making an initial mistake. It's all nice to be fast as a centre back, but Rio was faster still, and how often did he go on sprints like Bailly? Bailly has potential, but he has not played like our best CB.

 

[frosteeeh21]

Smalling and Bailly. Smalling gets some incredibly unfair criticism but I'm never seen him play as bad as Bailly and Lindelof did at the weekend. Smalling is our best defender by far then Baillly, then Lindelof. Rojo and Jones should both be sold

 

[MadMike]

This doesn't really mean anything without seeing the quality of opposition, whether we were home or away, who were the full backs etc

And also the sample is quite small, so subject to large impact from randomness of events.

Personally, I would like to see more of Smalling-Lindelof. I think their talents complement a fair bit, like Smalling and Blind in the past.

Bailly-Jones, Bailly-Rojo, Jones-Rojo partnerships would work out alright if we're playing on the front foot and pressing high. They are all quite aggressive, fairly fast to recover and decent with ball at feet. However they are all complete panic stations when the ball is in or around the box. None of them is particularly good in the air and they are all prone to rash challenges that give pens or cards or both.

The most important thing is that way we play football ALWAYS seems to invite a period of pressure on our defence. Quite often that period is the vast majority of the game and we end up playing on the counter. For that reason I prefer a partnership that doesn't shit the bed when the ball is in or around the box. And I'd opt to see more of Smalling and Lindelof for that reason.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Smalling and Bailly. Its clear as daylight that Smalling is a much better defender than many give him credit for. Certainly a better defender than Lindelof. And I'm not being reactionary, I've been consistent in that I'm yet to see anything special about Lindelof when we have played a back 4. The only times where for me Lindelof has looked really good are the times where we went with a 3 atb formation and Lindelof had the cover to roam further up a bit and make interceptions and pass out of the back.

It is for this reason that I think it is abundantly obvious that the best centre back combination is Smalling Lindelof Bailly from left to right. Back 3 is the way forward Jose!

 

[Bestietom]

Out of what we have, I would go with Smalling and Bailly. Matic will be a help to the Cb's when he returns.

 

[simplyared]

Any combination including Lindelöf doesn't work for me. Because of his limitations, lack of authority etc, it leaves too much responsibility on the shoulders of his partner. Smalling when playing with Lindelöf has been a rock and has carried him imo. Bailly hasn't got Smalling's leader qualities, so together with Lindelöf, the weak link makes them both look shaky. So whatever combination we choose, Smalling must be the first choice. I would have Bailly as the other CB. He was great in his 1st season for us. He can't just become shit overnight.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Lindelof is no good. Rojo is much better IMO. But i'd do Smalling/Bailly. Smalling is generally decent and sometimes gets his head on a corner kick.

 

[MadDogg]

Bailly is still our best defender. He's allowed to have one bad game. Look at how many times he's saved us when strikers are running through on goal. He's been very good for us until Jose dropped him at the back end of last season. He needed the confidence to keep playing and we would've reaped the rewards this season.

Bailly has had a lot more than one bad game. He's had almost as many bad games as he has had good, and it's that inconsistency which means he certainly isn't our best defender. He's potentially our best, but there's a huge difference.

Bailly's best form was actually in the first two or so months after we signed him. Then his form started dropping, he got injured, came back and went to the ACON, came back from that in absolutely atrocious form, was dropped, came back later in the season and formed a decent partnership with Rojo for about a month (although Rojo was better), then got injured again.

Last season he again started fairly well (although Jones was better), had a couple of shaky games, got injured, and then he never seemed to put two good games back-to-back again. Sure he'd have a great game here and there, but in the next he'd be all over the place. That, combined with the world cup comments from Jose, led him to being our last choice over the last couple of months of the season.

 

[Mcking]

Smalling and Lindelof really compliments each other and they looked solid when played together last season.
I think we should stick with them. Both of them are the least rash and least injury prone too.

 

[Mcking]

Any combination including Lindelöf doesn't work for me. Because of his limitations, lack of authority etc, it leaves too much responsibility on the shoulders of his partner. Smalling when playing with Lindelöf has been a rock and has carried him imo. Bailly hasn't got Smalling's leader qualities, so together with Lindelöf, the weak link makes them both look shaky. So whatever combination we choose, Smalling must be the first choice. I would have Bailly as the other CB. He was great in his 1st season for us. He can't just become shit overnight.

Dunno, but Smalling and Bailly usually seem unconvincing to me. Probably because Smalling has to play on the left where he's much inferior.
Bailly imo lacks many things needed to be a top CB. He's rash, he's poor on the air, poor positioning, clumsy and doesn't communicate nor really care about anything happening elsewhere off the ball.
He's poor at sensing danger too. Spectacular, but not the guy imho.

 

[Raven]

I say play a pair consistently and we'll see huge improvement. Bailly and Lindelof need some time and I think they could be great.

 

[Andycoleno9]

The sad thing that for every our defender we can get 25-30 mil euros. But we just stick with them. Jones+rojo= toby. Just saying.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Best Man Utd defensive partnerships of Mourinho era
Pairing Games played Win percentage
Smalling/Jones 13 - 46.1%
Jones/Bailly 9 - 88.9%
Bailly/Smalling 7 - 55%
Lindelof/Smalling 7 - 86%
Lindelof/Bailly 2 - 50%
Lindelof/Jones 2 - 0%

Interesting stats from Sky Sports. so Jones/Bailly and Lindelof/Smalling are our best CB pairings in terms of win %. Would be interesting to see how many clean sheets we had with each pairing.

I've always said Smalling and Jones shouldn't play together and it looks like the stats agree with me. It should always be one or the other, Smalling told Scholes he prefers to play with Lindelof so we might as well keep that combination.

 

[Snow]

Best Man Utd defensive partnerships of Mourinho era
Pairing Games played Win percentage
Smalling/Jones 13 - 46.1%
Jones/Bailly 9 - 88.9%
Bailly/Smalling 7 - 55%
Lindelof/Smalling 7 - 86%
Lindelof/Bailly 2 - 50%
Lindelof/Jones 2 - 0%

Interesting stats from Sky Sports. so Jones/Bailly and Lindelof/Smalling are our best CB pairings in terms of win %. Would be interesting to see how many clean sheets we had with each pairing.

It's not that interesting because every pairing but one has less than 10 games between them so they are insignifanct. Also doesn't take into account who were playing in midfield or full back or who the opposition is. The defense is way more than just two players.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

This is our record from last season. Fantastic defending in open play, a weakness to set pieces and caught a few times on the counter attack.

With Bailly and Lindelof we currently have 2 goals from open play, 0 from counters, 1 from set pieces and 1 from a penalty.

Before we had a very solid defense that mainly just needed the team as a whole to tighten up on set pieces. Now we're kinda weak defensively in every situation

I think De Gea basically keeps those stats 10 goals better than they otherwise would be.

Sad to say this but our best CB pairing is Smalling + whoever is fit.