Now I think that it´s quite right.With the first generation there was a lot of conflict, but I think now they have integrated very well. Many have already been born here.
"Blackface" Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I'm not sure if you can compare it with this Griezmann case for example, as Suarez was accused of using the n-word in a derogatory/mocking way, obviously meant to provoke. I'm hoping that's not ok anywhere in South-America.
What an idiot! Wish people would just think before they act.
Villain offended the Christ.
I understand where you're coming from, to an extent. I'm ethnically Greek. The black population of Greece is tiny. Well, well under 1%. That doesn't mean though that a large percentage of the population does not hold bigoted views on black people. The old mostly, but also a larger percentage of the young ones than they care to admit. Just because there's hardly anyone around to be the recipient of the casual racism, doesn't mean it's not there under the surface.
I've travelled extensively through the Med in my life. I backpacked Spain for months. Did the Camino de Santiago in 2009. My experience of Spaniards is basically the same of Greeks (and the same of Italians actually). These are societies that in modern times had few "outsiders" especially if you weren't in the Capital. Quite religious societies in the very recent past, quite insular to some extent. As such, some of the racist attitudes are not really challenged precisely because there's too few people to challenge them.
Do I see it getting better? Yeah, marginally. The world is becoming smaller and smaller, perceptions are slowly changing. It seems a very slow progress but we'll get there. I hope.
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Tell me why it has nothing to do with race? It's not some clothing that's the issue here.
Well easy to integrate because of the the imposed language and culture. Still there are racist like anywhere else.
Like peruvian nazis
That’s why I wasn’t condescending, and I’ve since told him he’s explained his argument well.
I never said it was. I was talking about painting your face which is what Griezmann did. Spanish Holy Week is actually pretty funny to outsiders.
Edit. I saw that Trevor Noah clip!
I bet nobody lined up to defend Chris Smalling dressing up as a suicide bomber. It was after all just a costume.
I bet nobody was defending Prince Harry for getting dressed up as a Nazi. Maybe he was taking the mick out of his own German heritage, or maybe he liked Monty python style funny walks?
It seems to be the "I'm offended by your offence" brigade only seem to pipe up if the offence is caused towards black people.
I bet nobody was defending Prince Harry for getting dressed up as a Nazi. Maybe he was taking the mick out of his own German heritage, or maybe he liked Monty python style funny walks?
It seems to be the "I'm offended by your offence" brigade only seem to pipe up if the offence is caused towards black people.
Yeah, I hadn't caught up yet. My bad.
Well easy to integrate because of the the imposed language and culture. Still there are racist like anywhere else.
Like peruvian nazis
Well easy to integrate because of the the imposed language and culture. Still there are racist like anywhere else.
Like peruvian nazis
the only guy who doesn't look peruvian in the middle is looking way too happy.I insist, for me there is only racism when there is intention
Griezmann incident for me is not racism. People pull their hairs about it and I understand them because for them is racism. But as they shout and cry "raicst, educate yourself" I shout and cry "Moron, he didn't know because US is not the center of the world and we do not need to know E-VERY-SIN-GLE-THING that bohers you"
Now he knows and he will not do it again, period
good lord.
read the damn posts before criticizing others. Never said it is okay for people parading with swastika in Jewish areas because of its meaning in Hindu culture(not ancient, we still use swastika).
same shit happened in that Newcastle owner thread, were people accused me of being sexist, just because I said Newcastle will be my second team.
Basically a harmless comment was made to look like a huge crime equivalent of me abusing a women with vulgar comments. As somehow my comment was a sample of how men oppress women.
And here is the same story, as if me talking about Swastika suddenly means I am fine with people using to hurt Jewish sentiment.
Most of the people getting offended by this aren’t even black. That’s the funny part.
If I was to go to a fancy dress party as Mr. T, naturally I’d have to be black to look like him.
Not everything has an offensive undertone. The costume was funny. Everyone needs to lighten up and get a sense of humour.
If I was to go to a fancy dress party as Mr. T, naturally I’d have to be black to look like him.
Not everything has an offensive undertone. The costume was funny. Everyone needs to lighten up and get a sense of humour.
If you are referring to me, I think I have tried to explain why Belgian and Dutch people don't see Zwarte Piet as racist. I'm willing to explain it further outside of this forum if needed. It might be difficult to understand, but it's too easy to just call us racist because we haven't changed or discussed the image of Zwarte Piet enough to fit your ideals. It's a ongoing discussion in both countries, and rightfully so, but it's entrenched in our folklore, and I get why some people find it difficult to give that up. I'm not one of them to be clear. The history of "black face" is unknown in our regions, but I'm happy to be educated.
Difference? Smalling most likely knew about suicide bombers, Harry knew what a nazi was (his great grand father was, that if prince charles is his father) . Griezman as the majority of europeans don't know what blackface and the background of it is. Now I know, and would never do it in US. But in Spain? yes, if I want it as is not racist here
I was actually confused before - I thought you were talking about this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/17/madrid-ends-blacking-up-post-christmas-tradition not Spanish Holy Week.
But here it shows that the city of Madrid back in 2015 (Griezmann was in Madrid in 2015, no?) ended the process of having someone blacken up at the Three Kings Parade as they quite rightly realised it was racist. So Griezmann can't solely lay blame on not being from the US.
But I agree that I don't think Griezmann is a racist, just an idiot.
Sorry, I confused you
You are right, there is a procession were people blackface still (and correcting it little by little) and there is semana santa.
And is a Spanish tradition, not French, and if even in spain is slightly discussed and I agree that has to be changed but most of people don't care (as it never had racism intention), I don't see why Griezmann should know at all as we can see he is not very bright, not only for this incident
I was at a fancy dress party last month and some young lad went as Donald Trump with a bullet in his forehead with fake blood running down his cheek.
I wonder if people would find that one offensive. Cause I thought it was hilarious.
It good that the role of Balthasar is more often taken up by actual black people, but that doesn't mean that people who wanted to depict the three Magi in the Middle Ages or in the centuries that followed meant the use of blackface offensively, mockingly or in any way negatively. It could have just been the most logical and most recognizable way to depict these three characters, as they are described in the bible.
The question is, should it be abolished now? Personally, I think it should. But I do understand you don't just change a tradition that has gone on for centuries over night. Madrid made the change now, and I'm sure many more will follow.
There's a difference between a racist act and being a racist though. You can be ignorant and unwillingly offend someone. The question is what you do after you get the information that it is offensive to some people.
Aye, yeah, empathy is fecking hilarious. Went to a stand up show the other day and the guy on stage dropkicked a kid in the front row and he started crying, when his mum had a go at the comedian he just went "I DIDN'T DO IT TO YOU" and we were all in hysterics.
Later on he kept asking an amputee girl in a wheelchair to stand up and applaud and even though she kept telling him she didn't have legs he just kept asking. Eventually someone tried to get him to stop and he just went "YOU'VE GOT LEGS" and we were on the floor crying with laughter.
I think we should expect him to have an idea what is wrong or right. But he made a mistake, people called him on it and in a couple of weeks it will move on.
Maybe it just isn't that big a deal in France? But you should know when you have a global following, and you make the decision to share such a thing with them, that people will react differently.
I only came across blackface accidentally during Sol Campbell's whiteface to encourage minorities to vote thing.
Thanks for that good explanation. And you are absolutely right
what is the big kerfuffle about this?
Some people really need to eat a grip.
Some people really need to eat a grip.
I can agree partially, as not knowing the law it does not make you a culprit if you don't follow it, and I can understand the comments and telling him that is not right. What I don't accept is insult someone and roast him for a fact that he did not know and was done without intention. Specially the ones that says "educate yourself Griezmann". As I said before, nobody has to know everything specially if is from another country and people should understand that before to unleash the dogs.
He was careless, that is undeniable, but not to the point of roast him like that. He learnt (I learnt about blackface today) and he will not do it again, and if he does I will do the first on criticize him
Was you expected to find it offensive? Did you vote for Trump or something?
Just I don't understand why you would bring up this Trump outfit.
Yes, I can agree with that. I also don't think the fact he didn't know is ridiculous or a sign of his intellectual bagage.
But ok, now he knows, he apologised and will (hopefully) never do it again. Storm in a teacup.
Oh no, his intellectual baggage is for a few other things since he is in Spain. I don't feel specially stupid or bright and I did not know that term and I know a loooot of clever people that I am sure they still don't know because they don't even know who Griezmann knows
To be fair, the problem is less about Griezmann than it is about how people reacted when they were told that blackface wasn't acceptable for a significant part of the population.
Yeah I think ignorance is his only crime really. He can't have known about it, surely? I mean, you wouldn't parade yourself openly like that if you were aware of the historical significance. Even if he wasn't though it's still sketchy territory, so you'd think he'd send a quick Pogtext just to check!
I find the last part humorous in this context. The pitchforks brigade seems to lack the humility of realizing that they aren't all knowing either, and could potentially cause offense unintentionally one day. At which point I assume they'd prefer if people had a more generous interpretation of their acts than the one they presently display.