I would say Sunak is favourite, he has had more favourable media coverage than Gove. Though Gove is considered a Murdoch favourite.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think gove sunak possibly raab hunt and the saj would have another go... perhaps priti patel to provide some gender balance and make everybody else look slightly more reasonable by comparison
Gove and sunak to make the final two and with enough dog whistle racism and some Cummings slogans gove to win
He would actually make boris look like a straight talking component pm by comparison ...
Can't stand the man but I have a horrid feeling he's going to be the next pm
I don't think Boris is going to go so easily whatever happens with the deal or no deal
Not immediately I suspect, but he'll do well to get through next year, deal or no deal. His successor probably won't last long either.
It might be they will and never had a problem with it but can use it as a concession later and expect reciprocity on something they do have a problem with.
Or it might be the EU is doing the loaded naming trick where what they class as a level playing field isn't.
All we know for certain is that historically EU has never really had a problem with state aid and protectionism. The majority of the money it has spent while the UK was in the EU has been on state subsidies.
a lot of what’s going on looks like bluster, and rhetoric to satisfy each side to show that they are negotiating hard.Most negotiations go to the wire.
we will have to see if I fall into your activity of “idiots who think a deal can be done”*
*my interpretation of your post.
well, I might be wrong of course.. but nothing the Tories are doing looks like deal-making or diplomacy to me
I am, of course, extremely biased against the Tories who I despise with every fibre of my being.. so maybe I'm the idiot
after 4.5 years (which shocked me when I heard that today!), we are weeks away from finding out.
let’s have an idiot revealing party on Dec 31st. It’s not as if we are going out!
I wouldn't think you're an idiot for believing it, most people I know from the UK seem to think its still possible. - including my family.
From the outside looking in (I haven't lived in the UK for years) there are three weeks to go and it just ain't happening.
whatever happens we're a far cry from "the easiest deal in history" all the usual suspects were crowing about four years ago
I honestly don’t know what will happen. But what I do know, is that we get told a load of BS from both sides during the negotiations, which means we can’t actually determine what’s going on, until they either announce a deal or a no deal.
in my simple mind, no matter what’s gone on beforehand, both parties are better off compromising and getting a deal - so that’s what should happen... but I like simple.
The DM and Sun were both talking up no deal to their readers with nationalistic bollocks this weekend.
But given news outlets are leading on wildly contradictory stories on a fisheries agreement, it does feel like no-one really has a clue.
It isn't just a simple matter of agreeing one point or two. It's agreeing on a whole brexit plan. And from that plan, there are tonnes of small details that need to be clarified. And from those details, there are huge implications on government, infrastructure, policy, etc etc etc.
That takes time. I imagine, at best, they agree on the "main points" to close a deal, both sides declare a victory and then both sides agree to remain status quo for another month or three, to give them time to hammer through the minute details that will need to be clarified and then implemented on both sides of the border.
Unless, both sides already roughly knew what the result would be beforehand and have been preparing for it while promoting all the bluster in their press conferences to look like they are trying hard.
That takes time. I imagine, at best, they agree on the "main points" to close a deal, both sides declare a victory and then both sides agree to remain status quo for another month or three, to give them time to hammer through the minute details that will need to be clarified and then implemented on both sides of the border.
Unless, both sides already roughly knew what the result would be beforehand and have been preparing for it while promoting all the bluster in their press conferences to look like they are trying hard.
Trumpian politics right at their best here:
The spin is going to be unbearable this week. I still think we'll have some kind of agreement this week but we're such a farce that even if it was agreed we'd brief it wasn't just so we can claim a hard fought last minute concession.
Just blame the French. They've been doing that for centuries.
The fish thing is so fecking stupid. It's an issue no one cares about but because Leave made it a big deal they'll no longer act reasonably on the matter.
Weird thing is that if there is an agreement, people in the UK starting to believe everything will be OK. Have I got news for you.
Markets don't seem optimistic as pound plunged well under €1.10 already.
Markets don't seem optimistic as pound plunged well under €1.10 already.
The fishermen that bought quotas from british fishermen and are getting screwed care very much about it. The rest of the population may not care about them though.
Well yeah but mainly meant from the British side. For us it's a completely fabricated issue used as simplistic symbolism for our sovereignty because the plebs can't understand the rest.
On any issue now the default brexiteer argument is "they still don't get it's about our sOveReIGnTy".
My feeling as well.
It has and will continue to be all about posturing and spin.
Whatever the final outcome, our post Brexit problems will start to untangle. And the reality will soon hit home. The utopia of leaving the EU and taking back control or whatever that is supposed to mean will soon show itself as a pack of lies. But by then, it will be too late.
I beg to differ on that. For example Malta had faced huge problems in giving state aid to Air Malta. As an island state, Air Malta is the only government influenced airline that Malta have. If it goes tits up then we would be completely reliant on the likes of Ryan Air and Easy jet
Announce No Deal!
possibly but why would they engage in a debate beyond sOveReIGnTy if they are being dismissed as a bunch of plebs?
im a firm remainiac and im already onboard the rejoin train ... but calling people plebs probably isnt going to be successful in shaping our futire re;ationship with Europe because even if we leave without a deal - probably within days we start the talks again about a new deal with a few different faces coming up against the same old issues
Boris and Ursula speaking at 4pm UK time, day of reckoning.
isnt the internal market bill due back to parliament tonight as well?
I can imagine Boris wanting to extend talks by 24 hours... push through the bill tonight then basically agree whatever is on the table already tomorrow so he can spin it that he forced last minute concessions from the EU (then dropping all the illegal stuff in the bill as it will be made redundant by a deal)
Not sure I can see the EU going for that but as others have said its about spin and posturing now
The other twist to that story is that Gove is in Brussels today to arrange with his EU counterpart about the inception of the Northern Ireland Protcol by 31st.
If the Uk were insane enough to implement the internal market bill they'd be shooting themselves in the foot yet again damaging not only their relations with the EU but a knock-on effect with the rest of the world.
A temporary contraflow is to be set up on the A55 on Anglesey in north Wales to hold lorries that are turned away from the port of Holyhead from 1 January, the Welsh government has said.
HGVs turned away from the port will be stacked while they sort their paperwork or redirected to other sites if there is space.
A business park on the island is being prepared as a stacking site and should be ready by mid January and the government is also negotiating to use a truck stop.
The Welsh transport and North Wales minister Ken Skates said:
HGVs turned away from the port will be stacked while they sort their paperwork or redirected to other sites if there is space.
A business park on the island is being prepared as a stacking site and should be ready by mid January and the government is also negotiating to use a truck stop.
The Welsh transport and North Wales minister Ken Skates said:
Exhibit A is that useless bustard David Davis in the Sun today claiming "Britain has tried to behave in a civilised manner so as to avoid an acrimonious break-up.
"That is not true of the European Union — on the contrary it has behaved unreasonably from the beginning."
Other gems include: "We should be very rapidly seeking deals with Australia, New Zealand — all of our old friends and ask them: “Can you supply the things that France supplies?”
We’ll suddenly find cheaper and better wine, cheeses and other products.
And if we go global, we can repeat that for every country in Europe.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13402861/david-davis-nothing-fear-no-deal-brexit/
Why stop there? Ask them if they want to join the EMPIRE again, the glorious British EMPIRE. I have it on good authority that the Australians and New zealanders are positively aching to join back up like the good old days.
The biggest french export to the UK is cars, the second one packaged medicaments. Wine is third and is a bit of an odd one when you realize that the 15-20 top products are of the industrial variety.
We casually destroyed our own manufacturing and mining industries, which employed so many hundreds of thousands of people and supported whole villages and towns. Now we're chest-beating over the sea fishing industry, which is of course important to those who are in it - but that's only about 12,000 people actually working on registered fishing vessels (according to the official Gov site).
Of course, there are other people who work in the fishing industry apart from the fishermen, but even so, this isn't like mining or ship-building. And yet somehow it's become the symbol of British pride.
Furthermore wine is only 3.6% of French exports to the UK and cheese is only 0.91%. Almost as if Davis hasn't done his homework.
interesting - the passing into law phrase as that would require the house of lords to pass it as well in the same format as the commons
in short they would basically let them pass the bill in any old format today as it wouldn't go to the lords and be approved by Wednesday
That seems to allow then to pass the bill today - let boris claim it was the passing of the bill that forced (probably non existent) concessions from the EU... agree a deal on tuesday and he can act like billy big balls at PMQ's saying he got the best deal ever
Last edited:
It's the symbol of British pride because for decades a part of british politicians lied to people and sold the idea that foreign fleets were stealing british fish and jobs when those foreign fleets legally bought quotas and that was possible because the british parliament made quotas tradable. Now the interesting point that people should have been explained is that the reason britsh quota holders sold those quotas is because they couldn't exploit them, only a few countries have fleets that are able to exploit pelagic fishes and some of them are on the continent mainly in Netherland, Norway, Germany, Spain and France, if I'm not mistaken.
My point being that we are not even talking about the "poor" coastal fishermen.
I didn't know about selling the quotas. That makes it even worse!
Well that's a bit of a chicken and egg argument really isn't it? Have they not put forward any arguments because they're dismissed as plebs or called plebs because they can't put forward any decent argument?
It's not my experience in life that a group shy away from detailed argument because they're insulted. Entrenched perhaps but they'll fight their corner. Only those who have no argument will use it as an excuse.
The mainstreaming and appeasement of this type of idiocy is exactly what has led us into this mess in the first place. Here's an expert with 20 years in EU trade law but oh look here is someone who runs some pubs with very strong opinions about bent bananas, both must be treated equally.
Given we get told not all Brexiteers are like that then I'm at a loss as to what noun can be used for these people but I'm open to suggestion.