Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Of course Paul, how can it be any different, we all know everything going wrong is down to Brexit... you have told
us so often!..
Being facetious would not change that Brexit has a lot to do with a worse UK economy compared to its counterparts. Plain and simple.
Brexit has been such a fundamental change for the UK that it is highly likely to have adversely affected almost everything. And not just in a small way.
But we were all warned of that and just over 50% decided that it was so very clever of them to vote to leave without giving it more than a second thought.
Total bravado.
Kamikaze.
Aren't I clever mentality.
Well done Boris for getting Brexit done. But the problem was that he didn't get Brexit done.
Because he totally failed to understand even the most basic nuances about the lies he was peddling.
So here we are. Knee deep in the sh1t and getting deeper.
I am all about sovereignty being bad for you or good for you is relative as is not all economics, but is clearly that even quitting the EU, they could have done a much better job. They were too proud and dumb to at least, make it less painful, but nationalism and red tape trumped common sense. You can't put so many limitations to commerce with your neighbour and they want to go even further away to divert from EU standards when other countries they meet this standards to sell into the market. Doesn't make sense. Is not called the Brussels effect for no reason
Just over 50% of those that voted, which is what, like 37.4% of the total electorate from my bad maths?
People say that, which is true mathematically, but I don't think it's just the people who voted who support Brexit. There doesn't seem to be much a change in view and there are even people who are going to make Brexit work even though they said they didn't support it in the first place.
That’s due to the wonderful FPTP electoral system. Most anti-Brexit voters (probably a clear majority by now) are concentrated in cities, where Labour wins anyway. To win a majority, you have to appeal to small town seats and therefore to humour the knuckledraggers. I don’t believe for one moment Starmer believes he can make Brexit work but, before he can do anything, he needs to get in power.
The anti-Brexit voters were concentrated in the cities in 2016. There's still probably at least 18 months + before the next GE. A lot is going to happen in that time , and not good, re Brexit.
So if Starmer is going to get into power he has to lie. Then during that five years if he gets in, what's he going to say? I actually can't get Brexit to work so we'll have to start aligning with the EU and having wasted the best part of ten years since leaving trying to enact an impossibility, if we're good boys the EU may let us back in 2060. And at the 2029 GE the Tories get back in.
Alternatively from the day after the referendum there would have been strong opposition, a strong honest personality calling Brexit out and explaining why it could never possibly work. The person may have got a pounding from the media but still trying to pretend it may work all these years later is frankly ridiculous.
We're all eating turnip soup but just imagine how bad it would be if Corbyn were in charge
Mangelwurzels. Tesco's have apparently run out of turnips too.
I understand and personally I feel insulted by slogans such as make Brexit work. But…you have to deal with the country as it is, not as you’d like it to be. Voters won’t take kindly to being told they’ve been made a fool of, not when they are exposed to propaganda in the Mail and Express and, sadly, the BBC. Also, Labour would be fighting on Conservative terms as the only card the Tories have left is Brexit. So, to my mind, the best you can do, in the absence of voting reform, is try to undo some of the worst of Brexit while claiming it’s still Brexit (Brexit was never defined anyway). Rejoining the Customs Union would be a start and probably not too toxic given 99% of Brexit voters had never heard of it before 2016 and it’s not linked to immigration. Also, to really undo Brexit, the UK would need to rejoin the Single Market and I don’t see how that is feasible in the next parliamentary term (and much longer in fact). Therefore why raise an issue as a problem when you can’t solve it?
I get what you're saying and fighting the media is a massive task. Ever since before the referendum, the explanations why Brexit can't work have been very weak. And have continued to be.
The shift has been made to making immigrants the main target now, even more so than with Brexit. How far down that road are they going to go?
With the EU, in my view you're either in or out. Being in the Customs Union means the Uk can't have their own trade deals. So all the glorious trade deals being celebrated ,even though there are only two new ( bad) ones, which would have to be scrapped. This the Brexiters would realise. Then in the Single Market and the Customs Union you're effectively back in the EU; Even getting to that point will take a long time and the longer the farce continues the longer it will before sanity returns.
Good point.
Yes. We are where we are. That is the unfortunate reality.
I have no idea how, but we have to find some sort of mechanism to both improve our relationship with the EU as well as maximising our relationship with the RoW in order to get some growth into the economy.
Why not another referendum?
jaysus just how bad is the weather over there?
Quite normal. The Covid, Ukraine and immigrants excuses didn't work so they decided that one hour of frost in Morocco affected all the supplies to the UK but missed all the produce bound for the rest of Europe.
feckin' Moroccans.
Yes, I may being seemingly facetious, but in my (admittedly small) circle of friends and acquaintances I've not come across one person who has changed their view.
Brexit voters stick to their views and Remain voters to theirs, and it seems both are talking to the back of the others heads, with Brexit voters still on about sovereignty and self determination and Remain voters on about economics and closer political Union.
It would seem like Covid, the war in the Ukraine, energy prices and the threat to zero emissions does not seem to make one iota of difference, they are not even on the same page on Brexit.
As the GE moves into view on the horizon, it seems the PM is looking to make overtures to the EU with discussions about the NI protocol, trying perhaps to distance the Tories from Boris' stance. Also Starmer is seemingly wanting to make Brexit work (somehow!!) and there by appealing to former red wall folk to return to the Labour fold.
Both leaders perhaps recognise that little has changed in the voting public's perceptions but they want to seem like they both can accept that a way forward has to be found post Brexit. That what is done is done and where do we go from here... but without rehearsing all the arguments that large swathes of people cannot even agree exist, or don't care about anymore.
The fruit and veg simply stopped in the first safe country it arrived in.
... yes only the 'turnips' took the risk!You notice in the British press that the NI protocol is big news but barely mentioned outside the Uk and Ireland. I get the impression that something is expected that affects the wider arrangement with the EU.
In reality the EU have offered possible small solutions like as first suggested two years ago that products bound for NI are labelled thus and less controls would be needed on goods destined for NI. Other than that there is little to be changed.
That the DUP and ERG will accept anything is doubtful but at the end of the day the Uk have to implement the NI protocol and refusal to do so will mean court proceedings and in the worse case cancellation of the trade agreement.
Either way it will not ease the paperwork and export/import problems with the rest of the EU. Sorry for the people of Ireland / NI that the DUP and ERG are such goons. The Brexit Bill and if the Uk leave the ECHR will make matters considerably worse of course.
In reality the EU have offered possible small solutions like as first suggested two years ago that products bound for NI are labelled thus and less controls would be needed on goods destined for NI. Other than that there is little to be changed.
That the DUP and ERG will accept anything is doubtful but at the end of the day the Uk have to implement the NI protocol and refusal to do so will mean court proceedings and in the worse case cancellation of the trade agreement.
Either way it will not ease the paperwork and export/import problems with the rest of the EU. Sorry for the people of Ireland / NI that the DUP and ERG are such goons. The Brexit Bill and if the Uk leave the ECHR will make matters considerably worse of course.
Warning: Brexit benefit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/25/ports-france-ireland-brexit-cherbourg-rosslare
‘Brits are suffering but for us it’s boom time’: how Brexit boosted French and Irish ports
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/25/ports-france-ireland-brexit-cherbourg-rosslare
‘Brits are suffering but for us it’s boom time’: how Brexit boosted French and Irish ports
Yawn.
Why yawn?
Covid and the war in Ukraine have been used as weapons and propaganda by the UK government - "we're leading the way" nonstop nonsense. It affected everybody and all countries to various degrees. Now the government use it as an excuse for their failures, as they do with the EU and immigrants and so on and so on, always someone else's fault. Now the UK are going to be world leaders in zero emissions and world leaders in growth - and that's Starmer while he's making Brexit work and winning the British GP in a Reliant Robin with no engine.
I don't know anyone who has changed their mind either but has any of your Brexit voter friends pointed out specifically where they have discovered their newfound sovereignty and self determination that they thought they didn't have before Brexit, not forgetting that whatever they complained about was with the agreement of the UK when they were still part of the EU.
Paul.
Many of us in the UK fully understand that Brexit was a massive mistake.
And we are well aware that the economy is taking a hit as a consequence.
And I am sure that some people are happy at seeing the British people suffering as a result.
Maybe some of those are living in France.....
But do we need to be reminded of how some places are benefitting at the expense of others.
That is why I posted Yawn.
This is the Brexit thread, the result of Brexit. Unfortunately there will be very little good news. At least the EU are benefitting from Brexit, you should be happy.
I'm certainly not going to turn into the brainwashing British media trying to pretend everything will be fine and lying through their teeth. It can't possibly happen.
The only people to blame are the idiots who voted Brexit who turned the UK into competitors of the EU instead of allies and friends who should work together.
Furthermore there's nobody who's prepared to do anything about it.
I get that you don't rate Starmer, or Sunak for that matter.
But at the moment it looks like Labour and Starmer will form the next government.
Politics is cyclic and the Tories have had their chance and completely trashed the UK and so it is time for a change.
Whatever you think about Starmer, he has transformed Labour from a party of protest to be seen as electable.
His 5 missions are all about setting out his stall.
So what would you have preferred he said.
The UK is a busted flush and if you vote for me, I will make that even worse...
There's not one UK politician who's got any guts. There are 67 million people in the UK; surely they can find one decent one.
Just because you are happy that the UK is struggling, why should I be happy that the EU is benefitting from Brexit ??
I'm not. I want someone to stand up against it. But it's inevitable and eventually someone will have do to do something about it. If we're only going to post things that the UK will benefit from Brexit, this will be the last entry in this thread.
You know very well that is not what I was meaning.
Of course Brexit was stunningly stupid.
And of course that needs to be called out. I have done that as loudly as anyone.
But we are where we are.
And as a nation, we have to move forward and carve out a future... unfortunately outside the EU. Because that is the reality.
Seems exceedingly unlikely Paul, considering your posts on this thread make up 8% of the total posts on it and 1/3 of your total posts since joining. A strange situation, considering, unlike us, you don’t have to live the consequences and regularly tell us how happy you are that you got out of this hellhole and never have any intention of coming back?
I can’t remember the last time that someone posted anything ‘positive’ about Brexit on here (it would be almost impossible to) and the few Brexiteers on this forum have, almost to a man and woman, disappeared from this thread/forum for good. So seems like a slightly strange straw man to build because nobody is coming on here only posting things that the UK will benefit from Brexit?
Not quite getting what you're saying. You're counting my posts and are the post police? What do you want me to say?
Also, even if the people changed their minds, and even if we elected a 're-joiner' Government, the EU would surely think very carefully before agreed to the CU or SM.
They surely would think in another 10 years the UK would be back to its old tricks and complaining non stop and hankering to leave yet again.
Maybe but trying to go further away which Starmer will have to do in order to satisfy the Brexiters he's so scared of.
Of course Paul, how can it be any different, we all know everything going wrong is down to Brexit... you have told
us so often!
Not everything. Just many mamy things. Add people repeatedly voting Tory and you get closer.
Takes literally 2 clicks and a primary school understanding of maths.
I think people who are technically on the same side of the argument as you are trying to explain why your at times almost gleeful posts about the various issues in the UK, with a solution of essentially immediately begging the EU to let us back in (while also acknowledging that the EU will in the short to medium term rightly say no) without realising that it would be electoral suicide and lead to just more of this same nonsense…..can get rather old at times for those of us who are still here living in this mess?
And that its a bit funny that you’re threatening to leave the thread based on a point (only positive posts to be made about Brexit on here) that literally nobody has made….for years, if ever, on this thread?