Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Kentonio said:
I don't know, but I was shocked when Guy Verhofstadt supported the idea. Didn't see that coming.
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You shouldn't. A big chunk of THE UK politicians and media would secretly love the EU to fail. However I ensure you that the feeling isn't mutual.
Very few people hate the UK and the EU had done its very best to keep the UK in the union.

However patience is now running low and like most divorces its bound to become nasty. Most European politicians have already enough on their plate and can't keep on accommodating the spoiled kid in the atlantic.
 
devilish said:
You shouldn't. A big chunk of THE UK politicians and media would secretly love the EU to fail. However I ensure you that the feeling isn't mutual.
Very few people hate the UK and the EU had done its very best to keep the UK in the union.

However patience is now running low and like most divorces its bound to become nasty. Most European politicians have already enough on their plate and can't keep on accommodating the spoiled kid in the atlantic.
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How would this be accommodating the UK though? Seems like the appeal to the EU would be that it would be a means to skim off some of the UK's best and help facilitate a brain drain all under the guise of offering an olive branch to the UK.
 
devilish said:
I doubt he'll find plenty of supporters in the EU TBH
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I'm not so sure Dev, it would be a very divisive move in the UK and would allow the EU to go for a much harder Brexit on those who genuinely want out without unnecessarily punishing those of us caught up in the idiocy only by the misfortune of sharing a nationality with the cretins.

At present there's just under £100 a year out of my tax bill that goes to the EU whilst the total UK net contribution's around £8.5bn. If I could maintain an EU passport and free movement status I'd happily stump up £350-500 a year for each of myself, my wife and my daughter and I'm fairly sure there'd be another 20M or so pro EU Brits who would also jump at the chance. Let's face it, a 1 year visa for India or China comes to more than that once you've added in all the processing fees etc while the US is around half that. It would allow you to carry out criminal background checks etc to ensure the undesirables are kept out.

It would mean the EU were not out of pocket with the UK leaving and as they'd be calling in well over the £250M per week in debts the UK has to the EU for many years to come post Brexit they would actually be in profit. You could also charge visa fees to all the non-EU Brits on a country by country basis depending on how troublesome each country sees them.
 
NinjaFletch said:
How would this be accommodating the UK though? Seems like the appeal to the EU would be that it would be a means to skim off some of the UK's best and help facilitate a brain drain all under the guise of offering an olive branch to the UK.
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Of course it does.It gives the UK a way for somehow calm down the 48% remainers (and most leavers who want cherry picking) to still enjoy the benefits of being a EU member despite their country had abandoned Europe. Being an EU citizen is worth alot. No wonder why, even, the fiercest of Brexiters (ie Farage) was spotted in a German embassy just few days after the Brexit referendum.

Unfortunately most British people are caught in such a loop of distrust that they can't possibly acknowledge anything good coming from the EU. If all the remaining 27 members had to bow down to Westminister begging the UK to colonise them and to build back their empire, the Brexiters will probably argue that they are doing that to retain FOM and saddle the UK with its debt.
 
Bury Red said:
I'm not so sure Dev, it would be a very divisive move in the UK and would allow the EU to go for a much harder Brexit on those who genuinely want out without unnecessarily punishing those of us caught up in the idiocy only by the misfortune of sharing a nationality with the cretins.

At present there's just under £100 a year out of my tax bill that goes to the EU whilst the total UK net contribution's around £8.5bn. If I could maintain an EU passport and free movement status I'd happily stump up £350-500 a year for each of myself, my wife and my daughter and I'm fairly sure there'd be another 20M or so pro EU Brits who would also jump at the chance. Let's face it, a 1 year visa for India or China comes to more than that once you've added in all the processing fees etc while the US is around half that. It would allow you to carry out criminal background checks etc to ensure the undesirables are kept out.

It would mean the EU were not out of pocket with the UK leaving and as they'd be calling in well over the £250M per week in debts the UK has to the EU for many years to come post Brexit they would actually be in profit. You could also charge visa fees to all the non-EU Brits on a country by country basis depending on how troublesome each country sees them.
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If you ask me, this proposal comes from the liberal minority and will be shot down as soon as the real talks start. That will happen not by Brexiters but by the Europeans themselves. Its ludicious for many EU countries to be expected to treat the British as equals when the UK had voted to strip their people from being treated as equals in the UK. Can you imagine Spain having to pay for the NHS of millions of UK immigrants while Spanish people will probably not qualify to work in the UK? Can you imagine them having to accept gibraltars to work in Spain while Spanish people can't work in London? No one can possibly accept that!

Regarding the rest, but most Europe do not care what remainers think. All they care is that the UK had voted for Brexit and that a former member whom they had worked so hard to accommodate will soon become competitor. They might show some sympathy with Scotland but make sure they can give a feck about the English.
 
Jippy said:
The guy is a fecking idiot- seriously 'being kind' by staying in the single market? It would be laughable if it wasn't so absolutely tragic.
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TBF you can expect him saying

"Hey we're desperate to be in the single market so please keep us there" can he? He's trying to negotiating a way out of the mess they created and he's becoming increasing aware that the EU isn't in the mood of giving concessions. It can't, its shouldn't and it possibly have bigger thing to worry about then the spoiled kid sitting on the Atlantic asking to cherry pick the deal he wants

I won't be surprised if the 18 months pass and all the UK would get is a 'goodbye' note
 
Dobba said:
Yes, we've made it! Now we can let them off paying shedloads of tax while still subsidising their employees' shit wages to something bordering on liveable. Keep them coming!
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Can tax be collected on behalf of European based company in a non European base?
 
devilish said:
If all the remaining 27 members had to bow down to Westminister begging the UK to colonise them and to build back their empire, the Brexiters will probably argue that they are doing that to retain FOM and saddle the UK with its debt.
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Let's leave Scotland out of this..
 
devilish said:
TBF you can expect him saying

"Hey we're desperate to be in the single market so please keep us there" can he? The Tory party had promised its people too much and the EU simply can't and won't give in to these demands. Actually at this point in time, they are too busy to even think of Brexit anymore.

I won't be surprised if the 18 months pass and all the UK get is a 'goodbye' note
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Yep, but it was a leaked memo about a meeting with City grandees, so you'd have expected him to be trying to soothe their nerves, no threatening them with a hard Brexit.
The EU will probably kick us up the arse as head out of the door too...
 
Jippy said:
Yep, but it was a leaked memo about a meeting with City grandees, so you'd have expected him to be trying to soothe their nerves, no threatening them with a hard Brexit.
The EU will probably kick us up the arse as head out of the door too...
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Can he really do that though? Lets say Davis had already called 6-7 top European people and all of them told him to sod it off what do you expect him to tell the City grandees? "Erm I tried but those evil people won't allow the UK to cherry pick the deal we want?"


Its still early days however I wont be surprised if the UK gets nothing from the EU. If that happens then rest assured that the Tory party will spin their propaganda machine in a way to make it look as if it was their plan all along.
 
devilish said:
Can he really do that though? Lets say Davis had already called 6-7 top European people and all of them told him to sod it off what do you expect him to tell the City grandees? "Erm I tried but those evil people won't allow the UK to cherry pick the deal we want?"


Its still early days however I wont be surprised if the UK gets nothing from the EU. If that happens then rest assured that the Tory party will spin their propaganda machine in a way to make it look as if it was their plan all along.
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I don't know, I just have minimal faith in him tbh. I don't think that neither Davis nor the hardcore Brexit voters want to remain in the common market, so we can 'take back control'. You what the regions think of London and the City- they'd rather we all wallow in collective penury than have financial services continue to be a success.
 
Jippy said:
I don't know, I just have minimal faith in him tbh. I don't think that neither Davis nor the hardcore Brexit voters want to remain in the common market, so we can 'take back control'. You what the regions think of London and the City- they'd rather we all wallow in collective penury than have financial services continue to be a success.
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This is what I believe. You're free to agree or disagree

I think that there are four type of Brexiters. I am talking here about politicians here

a- Those who campaigned in favour of Brexit because they thought its their best chance to cripple Cameron. In reality they are not pro Brexit and they seriously thought that that the remain will win (ex Boris)

b- Those who made a living out of populism and thought they will keep on doing that for the rest of their lives (ie Farage)

c- Those who truly believed that Brexit would do good for the UK (ex Davis)

d- Those who are not in favour of Brexit but now the it had been voted in and there's no turning back.

Most of C believed that the UK was simply too big for the EU for it to close the door at its face. Some,were totally ignorant of how the EU work. For example Davis thought that it was possible to make a deal with the individual 4-5 EU rich countries while closing the door at the face of the others. That will allow the UK to have unrestricted access to the German, French, Dutch and possibly the Italian and Spanish market while keeping the pesky Romanians and Bulgarians out. It turned out that it doesn't work like that.

So imagine yourself as one of these guys. They promised heaven on earth while basing themselves on a strategy which was completely wrong. What would they do now? Plan B would be to try to get the best deal possible, something that can link what they promised to what it can be achieved. Yet what would happen if that is just not possible? An honourable man with some integrity would just resign but we all know that these people do not exist especially in the Tory party.

The other option would be to threaten to sever ties and hope that the opposing party will be scared shit to offer something. If they dont call bluff then simply sever all ties and come out with the brilliant idea that that what was planned from day 1. Sure the economy may go tits up. However who cares? Davis is 67, May is 60, and Boris Johnson/Farage will be in their mid 50s by the time shit hits fan. The latter can even rely on an MEP pension.
 
I can't get my head around that one.
 
Nor seen anything about what the fee would be. Per person or per adult ? Annual or one-off ? Could be a nice little earner for the EU.
 
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Pretty cool if so I guess. Depending on how much it cost I'd potentially opt in. Surely it'd be problematic in certain respects though?
 
devilish said:
This is what I believe. You're free to agree or disagree

I think that there are four type of Brexiters. I am talking here about politicians here

a- Those who campaigned in favour of Brexit because they thought its their best chance to cripple Cameron. In reality they are not pro Brexit and they seriously thought that that the remain will win (ex Boris)

b- Those who made a living out of populism and thought they will keep on doing that for the rest of their lives (ie Farage)

c- Those who truly believed that Brexit would do good for the UK (ex Davis)

d- Those who are not in favour of Brexit but now the it had been voted in and there's no turning back.

Most of C believed that the UK was simply too big for the EU for it to close the door at its face. Some,were totally ignorant of how the EU work. For example Davis thought that it was possible to make a deal with the individual 4-5 EU rich countries while closing the door at the face of the others. That will allow the UK to have unrestricted access to the German, French, Dutch and possibly the Italian and Spanish market while keeping the pesky Romanians and Bulgarians out. It turned out that it doesn't work like that.

So imagine yourself as one of these guys. They promised heaven on earth while basing themselves on a strategy which was completely wrong. What would they do now? Plan B would be to try to get the best deal possible, something that can link what they promised to what it can be achieved. Yet what would happen if that is just not possible? An honourable man with some integrity would just resign but we all know that these people do not exist especially in the Tory party.

The other option would be to threaten to sever ties and hope that the opposing party will be scared shit to offer something. If they dont call bluff then simply sever all ties and come out with the brilliant idea that that what was planned from day 1. Sure the economy may go tits up. However who cares? Davis is 67, May is 60, and Boris Johnson/Farage will be in their mid 50s by the time shit hits fan. The latter can even rely on an MEP pension.
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That's a reasonable summary of the different types of Brexiteers (with May fumbling along in the fourth category). The Davis's of this world completely underestimated what Brexit involved, perhaps because they had never seriously expected it to happen and treated it like some romantic affectation. Sad to say but, given I have no faith in the UK political leadership to fashion a workable compromise, the best hope for the UK to get a deal is continuing instability in Europe.
 
Cheesy said:
Pretty cool if so I guess. Depending on how much it cost I'd potentially opt in. Surely it'd be problematic in certain respects though?
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Not really, UK citizens are allowed to hold dual nationality so it's just a case of making the EU passport the equivalent of a dual nationality and resolving issues like where your voting rights go.
 
Drifter said:
UK citizens will get individual opt-in to remain EU citizens
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I 'look forward' to the the red-tops & politicians calling those people traitors, and inciting violence.
 
SteveJ said:
I 'look forward' to the the red-tops & politicians calling those people traitors, and inciting violence.
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I look forward to all those who voted leave secretly opting to remain EU citizens so that they can have their cake and eat it too and the fallout that follows when politicians who campaigned hard for leave are found to have applied to keep their EU citizenship because even they know that it was a stupid idea.
 
Bury Red said:
Not really, UK citizens are allowed to hold dual nationality so it's just a case of making the EU passport the equivalent of a dual nationality and resolving issues like where your voting rights go.
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We'll certainly be taking EU citizenship if it's offered. I'd rather be an EU citizen than a Brit, quite honestly.
 
Wibble said:
Sounds odd

Hope it is true mind
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It reads as if this is an initiative by Goerens (spell?) and Verhofstadt but I doubt that it'll be backed by a majority of MEPs (seems as if it has not even been discussed in EP) and also that it is their call alone to decide upon.
 
Member 5225 said:
Hmmm perhaps we can pull out of the EU and if the EU are up for this, the UK Govt can pay for everyone to be an 'EU citizen' and problem solved!
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I thought over 50% of the country wanted nothing to do with Europe :wenger: It would be ironic if more than half the population applied for EU citizenship after all the noise the referendum made and would show quite how committed to their ideals the Brexiters really were although not quite as demonstratively as those who bang on about taking back control for Britain only to then announce they are emigrating and don't give a toss if the results of the referendum pile financial woes on the UK.
 
Bury Red said:
I thought over 50% of the country wanted nothing to do with Europe :wenger: It would be ironic if more than half the population applied for EU citizenship after all the noise the referendum made and would show quite how committed to their ideals the Brexiters really were although not quite as demonstratively as those who bang on about taking back control for Britain only to then announce they are emigrating and don't give a toss if the results of the referendum pile financial woes on the UK.
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I'm a keen Brexiteer and would still apply. I hate the EU and what it stands for and is trying to do (and the mannerism), but if I get the right to move around the EU freely (which I MAY use one day), for a fee, I would take it! Best case scenario from a selfish perspective.

It's like saying all Remainers should just flee to the EU if they love and relate to be being European more than being British!
 
Member 5225 said:
I'm a keen Brexiteer and would still apply. I hate the EU and what it stands for and is trying to do (and the mannerism), but if I get the right to move around the EU freely (which I MAY use one day), for a fee, I would take it! Best case scenario from a selfish perspective.

It's like saying all Remainers should just flee to the EU if they love and relate to be being European more than being British!
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It's that two faced selfishness we've come to expect and revile in so many of the Brexit icons which is likely to mean that the idea of Associate EU Citizenship is very unlikely to be offered.

Believe me, if the country does head down the toilet I will be off, I've already got options in France, the NL or Belgium if we still need to be close enough to our ageing relatives to be there quickly but could just as easily go further afield again. Whether we're offered associate citizenship or not there's a large number of high end earners and tax payers who either already are leaving or who are biding their time before deciding which will only worsen the plight of the poor sods who voted Brexit alongside you believing all your lies about making Britain great again. Not that you'll give a toss from your new home in Canada, you'll be like Stan looking forward to cheap trips back to the UK when the pound is down at 30p to the €.
 
Bury Red said:
It's that two faced selfishness we've come to expect and revile in so many of the Brexit icons which is likely to mean that the idea of Associate EU Citizenship is very unlikely to be offered.

Believe me, if the country does head down the toilet I will be off, I've already got options in France, the NL or Belgium if we still need to be close enough to our ageing relatives to be there quickly but could just as easily go further afield again. Whether we're offered associate citizenship or not there's a large number of high end earners and tax payers who either already are leaving or who are biding their time before deciding which will only worsen the plight of the poor sods who voted Brexit alongside you believing all your lies about making Britain great again. Not that you'll give a toss from your new home in Canada, you'll be like Stan looking forward to cheap trips back to the UK when the pound is down at 30p to the €.
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I'm in section D of Devlish's options. I'm staying no matter how bad it gets or how long it takes or which form of Brexit we end up with, which is why I hope it goes well and the UK flourishes. I can't understand people who live here and seem to wish for the worst it doesn't make much sense to me.

I suppose you feel the same about all the would be new EU citizens who keep their British passports and come running back if it doesn't work out well for them?Two sides of the same coin if you ask me.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I'm in section D of Devlish's options. I'm staying no matter how bad it gets or how long it takes or which form of Brexit we end up with, which is why I hope it goes well and the UK flourishes. I can't understand people who live here and seem to wish for the worst it doesn't make much sense to me.

I suppose you feel the same about all the would be new EU citizens who keep their British passports and come running back if it doesn't work out well for them?Two sides of the same coin if you ask me.
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Please note that list (like most criticism towards Brexiters) is addressed towards UK politicians and ringleaders. Not towards voters.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I'm in section D of Devlish's options. I'm staying no matter how bad it gets or how long it takes or which form of Brexit we end up with, which is why I hope it goes well and the UK flourishes. I can't understand people who live here and seem to wish for the worst it doesn't make much sense to me.

I suppose you feel the same about all the would be new EU citizens who keep their British passports and come running back if it doesn't work out well for them?Two sides of the same coin if you ask me.
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Fearing the worst and wishing for it are not the same thing. Many of us have been saying for a very long time that leaving the EU, particularly in the present financial climate, is potentially ruinous for the UK in the short to medium term and indeed we may never recover. I'm not saying all of us are experts but along with the experts you all despise so much we all found ourselves being ignored. To see many of the signs of what we warned coming true is not something we're reveling in, I'm personally secure and have little to fear from Brexit but I see it as being very damaging for my daughter's opportunities in years to come and know that when she has children they will have far fewer opportunities than I had and that some of those lost opportunities will be as a direct result of the Brexit vote.

As for EU citizenship, taking up the option to travel and work abroad does not mean you abandon your home country. We were gone for almost 15 years in Asia, where thankfully the bulk of my pension resides and is relatively immune to the pound tanking, we still voluntarily paid into the National Insurance system for that whole time and always knew we would at some stage return to care for our ageing parents and watch with pride as our daughter put down her own roots. I don't much like the country I've come back to, I find the bitter divides, the casual racism, the me first culture and the political system repugnant but I am British and still have family and friends here who I care dearly about and I do still believe there are things here worth fighting for, I just never expected the whole scale stupidity this year has wrought.
 
Member 5225 said:
Hmmm perhaps we can pull out of the EU and if the EU are up for this, the UK Govt can pay for everyone to be an 'EU citizen' and problem solved!
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We? I didn't know that you were English. I, obviously mistakenly, thought were a migrant.
 
I wont be applying. if I need a visa for a 2 week jolly in Portugal at the cost of a fiver or free, then I will do that. Paying for EU citizenship is madness especially if you are not a frequent visitor.
 
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