Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
NinjaFletch said:
Why are leavers so happy to point towards macroeconomic data now when this was the argument before?

Also I find Leave's faux concern for the left behinds, and criticism of Remain voters who think that leaving makes the situation worse for them, utterly exhausting. I have no idea how you can un-ironically act like leaving was the only option for helping them, or that it will mean that the Conservative government, or the Labour government before them, will suddenly care.

Lets be honest, your real motivations and kindred spirits in the leave campaign weren't the same as the working class in the north but the sort of people you're very happy to remind us exist when it suits your argument: very well off, older people in South East England.
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It's a bit absurd, isn't it? Theresa May herself probably typifies this argument best.

At the conference she stood up and spoke about how she was speaking up for the common person who's been forgotten, and argued that many were dismissing the opinions of the common Brexiteer and didn't take their fears seriously.

The irony is, of course, that May herself is in this band of people. She was a quiet Remainer, and it's made even worse by the fact she may have believed in Brexit but didn't bother her arse to stand up and fight for it. Had Leave finished with 49.5% of the vote (a tiny swing all in), she'd have given not one single feck about the voices of those disillusioned Brexit voters.

It's become a convenient, populist deflection though: try to make it look like all the working-class were for this, and that all the so-called liberal elite were against it. It's a massive simplification when both sides had some major splits, depending on area, age etc.
 
@Nick 0208 Ldn what you think will happen with Northern Ireland ? I've yet to hear any plan from anyone who voted to what will happen, at best most didn't even factor it in and at worst they didn't care.
 
Kentonio said:
Don't tell me what I am or am not concerned about you pompous ass. I live outside the UK now, but I was one of those professional Brits who couldn't afford to get on the housing ladder because of crazy house prices. In the area I come from, prices had up to quadrupled in my lifetime. Unlike you however, I have the sense to look at both sides of the picture, and anything that makes house prices significantly fall is going to be great for new buyers, and absolutely brutal for those already on the housing/morgage ladder. That doesn't mean we should just continue with unaffordable housing, but it does mean that we need a very well thought out and carefully planned solution that doesn't leave 7 million people in negative equality.

But then again your Brexiteers never have cared about thinking things through and carefully planning have you. You're firmly in the camp that believes things are as bad as they could possibly ever be, so lets set fire to the building and see if a better new one magically appears in its place.
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You need to channel your anger to something more positive mate
 
Paul the Wolf said:
There must be something positive about Brexit, somewhere, otherwise 17 million people wouldn't have voted for it, surely.
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As an abstract concept it's very appealing. Close the boarders, keep out the terrorists, stop spending tax-payers money on welfare/health/education for immigrants, stop letting badly run poverty-stricken European countries leach money from the British exchequer etc etc etc It's not hard to see why a lot of people voted for Brexit and the Leave campaign did a good job of using all the above to win their votes.

The reasons why leaving won't actually achieve almost all of these goals and the many other good arguments for not voting Leave are all, unfortunately, a little more complex and were really badly leveraged by the Remain campaign.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
As an abstract concept it's very appealing. Close the boarders, keep out the terrorists, stop spending tax-payers money on welfare/health/education for immigrants, stop letting badly run poverty-stricken European countries leach money from the British exchequer etc etc etc It's not hard to see why a lot of people voted for Brexit and the Leave campaign did a good job of using all the above to win their votes.

The reasons why leaving won't actually achieve almost all of these goals and the many other good arguments for not voting Leave are all, unfortunately, a little more complex and were really badly leveraged by the Remain campaign.
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The problem being that almost all the appealing arguments are pure inventions. For example EU citizens have no rights to welfare, boarders don't have to be open, health bills are supposed to be paid by the country you are from unless if you are a long term resident, etc...
 
JPRouve said:
The problem being that almost all the appealing arguments are pure inventions. For example EU citizens have no rights to welfare, boarders don't have to be open, health bills are supposed to be paid by the country you are from unless if you are a long term resident, etc...
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Yeah, they all fall apart under scrutiny. In the post-truth age we live in that doesn't matter. Nobody wants to listen to experts, do they?!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, they all fall apart under scrutiny. In the post-truth age we live in that doesn't matter. Nobody wants to listen to experts, do they?!
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Funnily enough, the Leave side seems quite keen to listen to them whenever they have anything positive to say about Brexit, as rare as that may be. Not so much anti-expert, just anti-expert when those experts don't vindicate their views.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
As an abstract concept it's very appealing. Close the boarders, keep out the terrorists, stop spending tax-payers money on welfare/health/education for immigrants, stop letting badly run poverty-stricken European countries leach money from the British exchequer etc etc etc It's not hard to see why a lot of people voted for Brexit and the Leave campaign did a good job of using all the above to win their votes.

The reasons why leaving won't actually achieve almost all of these goals and the many other good arguments for not voting Leave are all, unfortunately, a little more complex and were really badly leveraged by the Remain campaign.
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The more I read reports from places that were overwhelmingly pro Leave, I begin to reassess how much they were really influenced by the sort of superficially attractive advantages you list above. To a considerable extent, the leave vote in the less prosperous areas comes across a cry of anger from people who feel they have been ignored for nearly 40 years. From the Remain side (comprising, among others, every PM since 1990) it is very difficult if not impossible to counter those deep-rooted feelings of alienation and despair with reasoned arguments about the specific issue at hand.
 
MoskvaRed said:
The more I read reports from places that were overwhelmingly pro Leave, I begin to reassess how much they were really influenced by the sort of superficially attractive advantages you list above. To a considerable extent, the leave vote in the less prosperous areas comes across a cry of anger from people who feel they have been ignored for nearly 40 years. From the Remain side (comprising, among others, every PM since 1990) it is very difficult if not impossible to counter those deep-rooted feelings of alienation and despair with reasoned arguments about the specific issue at hand.
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I should probably have put "giving two fingers to the liberal elite" among my lists of poorly thought out rationales above. Obviously more noble but no less flawed. Especially when you see the shower of absolute cnuts who benefitted most from the outcome. Nigel Farage's shit-eating grin in a gold-plated elevator is an enduring symbol of the futility of their gesture.
 
Cheesy said:
Funnily enough, the Leave side seems quite keen to listen to them whenever they have anything positive to say about Brexit, as rare as that may be. Not so much anti-expert, just anti-expert when those experts don't vindicate their views.
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More like showing you that the very people who's words you hang off, sometimes have positive forecasts for the future.
 
It shows nothing of the sort. You are just looking for confirmation of some rather naive views on economics.

When Carney says 4 things will be exacerbated by Brexit and those are the key risks, it just demonstrates the wide-ranging impact of this badly informed choice.
 
Stanley Road said:
More like showing you that the very people who's words you hang off, sometimes have positive forecasts for the future.
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But that's not what's being done. We're seeing Brexiteers now trumpeting good news on their side despite the fact they regularly derided many of the same sources and appeared to be tired of experts when those same experts weren't taking their side.

I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with experts; there will no doubt be views of mine which conflict with some particular expert views, however Brexiteers seemed to be tired of experts in general...except on the odd occasion when one offers them some confirmation bias. Perhaps a bit of a generalisation considering the size of the group we're discussing but perhaps fair in some cases.
 
The B Street Band is reportedly playing at the inauguration. They're a Bruce Springsteen cover band. Would this be a first in terms of performers? I can't imagine anyone else would actually hire a cover band, especially one of a living artist.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I think she'll have to say something a bit more concrete, markets are getting nervous. Possible sizeable swings on Sterling in the next few days, lost nearly a cent against the Euro in a few hours this afternoon
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Something like "the UK will post-Brexit trade blue, red and white"? :wenger:

Seriously, I'd be surprised if she says anything really newsworthy. Newsworthy in my book is anything that isn't hard Brexit.
 
Crossie said:
Something like "the UK will post-Brexit trade blue, red and white"? :wenger:

Seriously, I'd be surprised if she says anything really newsworthy. Newsworthy in my book is anything that isn't hard Brexit.
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Possibly but she's running out of time, and all this wishful thinking rhetoric can't last much longer. She knows if it's a Hard Brexit she announces, markets will react violently , which is why she tried backtracking on Monday of what she said on Sunday.

I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall when they were discussing what she would say
 
Crossie said:
Seriously, I'd be surprised if she says anything really newsworthy. Newsworthy in my book is anything that isn't hard Brexit.
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Well we have around 10 weeks to her self imposed article 50 deadline
I don't think a hard Brexit is fully priced in yet so if that is not her intention she needs to start briefing / leaking or getting aids to accidentally have notes photographed saying no hard Brexit... Because if not the markets are going to get very jumpy and start pricing it in... Parity?
 
Apparently the new forecast is 1.05 against the buck. Of course, that won't in any case change the mantra of "currencies go up and down".
 
sun_tzu said:
Well we have around 10 weeks to her self imposed article 50 deadline
I don't think a hard Brexit is fully priced in yet so if that is not her intention she needs to start briefing / leaking or getting aids to accidentally have notes photographed saying no hard Brexit... Because if not the markets are going to get very jumpy and start pricing it in... Parity?
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Paul the Wolf said:
Possibly but she's running out of time, and all this wishful thinking rhetoric can't last much longer. She knows if it's a Hard Brexit she announces, markets will react violently , which is why she tried backtracking on Monday of what she said on Sunday.

I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall when they were discussing what she would say
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May can prove me wrong but I don't expect that she takes a different stance than she has presented up to now. She will under all circumstances avoid the term 'hard' Brexit to not make markets' jump - kind of softening the underlying message - but nothing she'll say will credibly suggest anything else than a hard divorce.
 
The difference being the US can sustain itself while the UK is not in such a strong position, unfortunately.
 
Silva said:
The Dollar went down during Trumps conference yesterday, so it's entirely plausible he fecks their economy enough that it doesn't go so low.
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Yeah, soon it'll probably be wiser to compare the pound to something like the Yen to get a real idea of how its behaving.
 
Any moment now the Brexiters would see the light. Any moment *holds breath*.
 
Does the current value of sterling price into account A50 or will it tank *again* when May pulls trigger.
 
Xeno said:
Does the current value of sterling price into account A50 or will it tank *again* when May pulls trigger.
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There's always going to be some people thinking 'she couldn't actually be that stupid'. I'm guessing its going to plummet like the mood of a UKIP voter during Ramadan.
 
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