The Tory party are trying to deliver what the majority of the British people voted for. Are you suggesting that they should now hand over power to labour, for them to negotiate Brexit?
You are not making sense.
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The Tory party are trying to deliver what the majority of the British people voted for. Are you suggesting that they should now hand over power to labour, for them to negotiate Brexit?
You are not making sense.
Obviously the Tory brexit position relied heavily on support from the business sector, and so raising corporation tax would have been an insane move on their part. However, the social care tax policy by the Tories was a huge blunder in this campaign. It's probably that, along with Labour's policies on NHS and the waving of tuition fees that have won voters.
Who mentioned labour? This whole Brexit mess is a Tory thing. They fed this anti EU sentiment by blaming their mismanagement to the EU. They are the ones who offered an irresponsible Brexit referendum which simplified a very complex issue into a simple yes or no and they are the ones who lied to their teeth (both sides of the campaign) turning a solid debate about this country's future into a farce. These people only care about power and have absolutely no idea how to manage the country. A year after Brexit its clear that they have no vision, no plans and certainly lack the expertise to deliver a decent Brexit deal as the country is embracing itself for a possible if not imminent backstabbing of May in favour of Boris. Its ridiculous considering that Brexit is a little more than 1 year away.
This country deserve to know the frigging truth especially about issues like Brexit which is the biggest event the UK has encountered since declaring war to Germany in WW2. Politicians need to take their job seriously and a national coalition should be set up so that there's a united front to come out with the best possible way to move forward. Instead the UK politics is reduced to a GOT scenario where the PM does anything to hold to his power and everyone backstabs one another to take the king's place.
No that's nonsense. You have to take into consideration the growing support for UKIP and the rise of euro scepticism. UKIP won the euro elections (the first time for a hundred years that a party other than Conservative or Labour won it), and in the general election won more votes than the Lib Dems, the SNP, and plaid Cymru combined. Also a huge proportion of Brits believed there should be more control of immigration. A referendum was absolutely inevitable at some point. Cameron promised a referendum as part of his 2015 manifesto, and yet he still won the election with a clear majority.
The truth is that the EU is not a democratic union, and the majority of British people don't want to be governed by useless unelected officials. The referendum vote by the British people was the right decision.
Fascism you mean?
a- Ah UKIP, people who grew rich from working within the EU despite barely ever turned up to work (ie UKIP had the laziest MEPs in all Europe). Their leader resigned soon after Brexit and then was spotted in the German embassy with rumours of him applying for something (ie EU passport) that he worked so hard to strip ordinary British people from. Its such a shame that such actions aren't considered as treason
b- The EU is a union of sovereign nations something even the Tory party had agree upon. Is it perfect? No. However if you want to find faults about democracy then you should start closer to home. For example why Scotland need permission from Westminster to call for a referendum on independence? Why a party can garner 12.6% of votes and yet end up with just 1 seat in parliament and why voting occur on Thursday ie a working day instead of weekends (which would give more time to those who actually bother working to vote)
c- No, it means party working together to come out with the best solution. Brexit is the single biggest issue the UK has to face following their declaration of war against Nazi Germany. Its an issue which is simply too big for one party to handle especially if that party has a parrot as leader and an idiot as foreign minister
How so?
The people making the decisions affecting us, are not voted by us, and so have no accountability for their actions.
He should get on really well with Juncker, then....
Your PM isn't elected by you?
That is not true.
But it sounds so well that some people keep repeating it.
So many remainers need educating.
The commissioners are appointed by elected people
Poor UK being controlled by evil EU
So you accept it as fact, but don't mind it at all?
Laws are created and passed by the European Parliament which is made up of elected officials.
Laws are enforced by the European commission. Members of the European commission have been put there by elected members of various government.
@vidic blood & sand
I think you're the one that needs to educate yourself.
Laws are enforced by the European commission. Members of the European commission have been put there by elected members of various government.
@vidic blood & sand
I think you're the one that needs to educate yourself.
But they are not elected by the people.
You're being obtuse.
Did you vote for the person that sets your interest rate?
Which I have no problem with. There are plenty of jobs within UK government institutions where people are appointed.
What exactly would a manifesto for EU commissioner look like?
Laws are originally proposed by the European Commission, and then must be approved by the EU before being enforced.
The point made was about the British public having very little to no say in these laws.
Seriously, you must be trolling. UK has one of the most seats in the EU parliament so if you think UK doesn't have any voice and are being controlled by EU, maybe you elected wrong people or you just don't know what you are talking about?
C'mon....We've had this discussion before....Many Times.
The president of the Commission ( this time, Slimeball Juncker ) is 'decided' by the 'Leaders' of the EU Member States and then approved by the European Parliament. Amazingly, Juncker is the very first President to have actually campaigned to be President, and the very first who was not elected unanimously by the EU Parliament. His contempt for the UK is probably becuse Cameron didn't want him as President, but was outvoted by the other 27.
If a majority of just 28 people deciding who is going to be The President of 300+ million people is Democracy, then it can only be EU style Democracy.
You're clearly overestimating the influence of the MEP.
No, and I didn't vote for the person changing the recipe of Milky Bars. Let's be reasonable here.
It's a qualified majority not a simple one and every country has a veto. The president of the Commission isn't the president of the EU, the president of the EU is the EU council as a corporation that corporation is represented by the President of the EU council namely Donald Tusk.
What I said, isn't it ?
Juncker is the one with the 'power' and is the leader of the Commissioners who are the ones who create the legislation and are nominated by the elected politicians of each member state. As you say, in theory we have elected the politicians who nominate the Commisioners. However, we in France and those in the UK did not elect the Governments in Germany, Portugal, etc, so it's a bit of a 'stretch' to say that the Commissioner nominated by, say, Croatia, was elected either directly or 'representatively elected' by anyone in France or the UK.
Tusk is a non-Excutive President, basically just ceremonial like the President of Germany or the President of Italy, who nobody outside of Germany or Italy could even tell you their names.
Nope, the one with the power is the EU council, it's that simple. The rest is wrong because Croatia doesn't elect a commissioner, they propose one and those proposed commissioners are, selected by the council at a qualified majority, then they are vetted by the parliament and then officially nominated by the EU council members at a qualified majority.
Perhaps they would have had more influence if the British people had not voted for UKIP MEPs whose only interest was to pick up their salary and pension (which they no longer wish to contribute to) and not bother to actually do their job like attending sessions and voting.
Hope you are happy with your choice of the Brexit team that you have appointed to take part in the negotiations and that whatever is agreed by that team will have your wholehearted approval because you chose them and that you will be kept fully informed of the progress of the said negotiations despite the fact that your PM wants to keep this information secret from parliament and the British public. Democracy at its finest in good old Blighty.
No....I didn't say Croatia elect a Commissioner....I said Croatia nominated a Commissioner, which is more or less proposed as you describe it.
Although an Elected Commissioner does seem like an improvement on the current methods.
Off to the beach now - I'll get back to you later.
When we vote we give our MP the power to vote on our behalf in Parliament. The PM votes on our behalf in Europe. Their is no democratic deficit
You still don't get it, they propose and that proposition is submitted to a vote at the qualified majority, they don't nominate a commissioner. As for the second part, it might be an improvement for you but I am unable to elect a commissioner in charge of External relations, I don't have the tools and knowledges to do that.
I'd love for someone to explain to me how this can be anything but a disaster.
Perhaps a disaster is OTT.
How can this be a good thing? How are we going to come out of the EU better off..? I don't see it.
In 30 years time, perhaps we'll be slightly better off than we are now? But what if in 30 years time, we'd be significantly better off by staying?
I see a major decision that could have huge consequences, with minimal potential gains?
Typically when you take a risk, the potential reward is worth it.
I don't see any potential 'rewards' despite the risk being substantial.
PS: Is it just me? Or are most of those defending brexit in this thread not currently residing in the UK?
Perhaps a disaster is OTT.
How can this be a good thing? How are we going to come out of the EU better off..? I don't see it.
In 30 years time, perhaps we'll be slightly better off than we are now? But what if in 30 years time, we'd be significantly better off by staying?
I see a major decision that could have huge consequences, with minimal potential gains?
Typically when you take a risk, the potential reward is worth it.
I don't see any potential 'rewards' despite the risk being substantial.
PS: Is it just me? Or are most of those defending brexit in this thread not currently residing in the UK?
It's the other way round, most of us residing outside of the UK think Brexit was a ludicrous decision.
How can someone vote for something where they have no clue about and cannot cite any realistic benefits of that vote.
In this thread I mean, out of the few defending Brexit here. They all seem to currently reside outside of the UK.
I imagine the vast majority of Europe, think its a silly decision.
I also mean in this thread, can only think of full bodied red and stanley road living outside the UK who are anti-EU, the rest live in the UK I believe
This thread is made up of a group of expats having the same arguments over and over again. Worst thread in the CAF for me.
I would have thought that the mechanical structure of the thread would have pleased you.
I would have thought that the mechanical structure of the thread would have pleased you.
I have my limits.
It has certainly seen better days