And it probably costs that much just to run the visa system
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Aint that the truth
Erm. I was alive and breathing during the EU campaign, I read party manifesto's. You seem to have come to some assumption that I don't know what I am talking about. You do know how the notion of a discussion works and burden of proof right? You make a claim, you are the one expected to provide evidence of it.
Let's try it and see if you can get the hang of it.
Here is a point:
May stated in her 11 point plan during the election campaign that workers would keep the same rights
Here is the proof:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...leave-care-elderly-relatives-tory-government/
Do you want to give it a try, or shall we just stop it here?
1) This is an issue that extends beyond the EU referendum, I don't know why you think otherwise seeing as I have repeatedly stressed that this has been a part of the Conservative agenda since at least 2010. The removal of the safeguards provided by EU membership, and by extension the seeming desire by the Brexit team to end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and European Court of Human Rights is related, but not the cause here. If you remember (you were living and breathing) Theresa May actually campaigned to Remain in the EU but leave the ECHR – a very tricky proposition. This is not a Brexit issue.
2) Your OP criticised devilish for '[making] it sound like Britain is some country that needs the EU to save itself from fecking up human rights, the foundations which seem to based in pure hysteria rather than actual factual or historic basis'. Your 'point' presented in this post is about Theresa May pledging (funny how you trust a politician when it suits eh?) to protect workers rights, and your proof is the same.
3) Your 'proof' is from May (the month), in June May (the person) launched an attack on pesky Human Rights laws that get in the way of detaining terrorists and threatened to 'rip them up'. May's June speech took criticism from the UN whose Human Rights Chief who described them as a 'gift' to tyrants, and for the transparently cynical nature of their timing coming days after a terrorist attack in the lead up to the election – Zeid Ra’ad al-Hussein's opinion is well worth reading on this issue, but as I'm sure you've come across it during the extensive research you've done I won't bother linking you to it.
So in your short post attempting to demonstrate your credentials you seem to show a misunderstanding of what Human Rights actually are, you've managed to misrepresent Theresa May's stance on them (both historical and current), and you seem to have misunderstood why the Conservatives have built up a reputation for not being trusted on them.
BTW, whilst we're getting sarcy about burdens of proof I'm sure you're aware that it is considered unnecessary to provide citations for common knowledge. The Conservative attitude to the European Court of Human Rights, the Human Rights Act, and the European Convention of Human Rights certainly should be common knowledge, and if you don't know it it's easy enough to find out. Don't act like your ignorance (feigned or actual) towards it is a valid opinion to hold.
You're right though, the UK should not need the EU to prop up Human Rights in the UK, but if you trust this government on this matter you're either not paying attention, a fool, or both.
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Imagine how slow 27 governments work
Ok, good so we agree that May wants to rip up human rights laws.
Now we're on the same page I suggest you use your newly found Google skills to find out why others think that's a bad idea rather than parrot the arguments of a person who has been proven either to not understand them or to lie about them when it suits. I'd also suggest probably looking up the logical fallacy of 'tu quoque' too.
Out of interest, what is your primary source of news?
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Keep telling yourself that until you believe it.
Tories to improve or at least protect workers rights? 
Good luck with that.
Leave vote nothing to do with xenaphobia?
Perhaps you have missed the rise of the far right in numerous places including the US, UK and particularly here in Australia, where we do things to refugees that Trump only dreams of. Typical popularist bollocks - I know your lives aren't perfect and I'm going to show you the foreigner who is to blame.
Good luck with that.
Leave vote nothing to do with xenaphobia?
Perhaps you have missed the rise of the far right in numerous places including the US, UK and particularly here in Australia, where we do things to refugees that Trump only dreams of. Typical popularist bollocks - I know your lives aren't perfect and I'm going to show you the foreigner who is to blame.
That's not good, and nothing to aspire to.
I suspect there are quite a few non nigerian africans working in the country without a visa
Like a fish in Egypt, you're in de nile
I know, but any decision they take has real heft
The British are still stuck to some royal families a relic that stinks of medieval rule. Sure they are expensive poster boys but it still give the impression that if one is born out from a certain family then his very future is ensured simply thanks to his blood line. Its democratic structure is a farce. Parties can get 12.5% of the votes and still end up with just 1 seat in parliament. Not to forget that its ignores a big chunk of the voter. I am a Lib Dem/Labour voter living in a council with a strong Tory base. Therefore my vote isn't worth the paper its printed upon.
Regarding human rights....well....they had been negotiable for many many years. From having such a great weapons business with Saudi Arabia knowing very well where they will end right to invading so many countries without any reason at all (WMDs?). The very fact that the UK expect the EU to go against their own morals and still sign a deal for business sake speaks volumes about their moral compass. I wonder what will be thrown under the bus in exchange for business (ie this time round with the US) Would it be the farmers who'll have to compete with cheaper GMOs produce and chlorinated chicken? Would it be the NHS?
So no, as an outsider I don't trust the British 'human rights' rule. As an immigrant whose country know exactly what the British rule are capable of, I trust them even less.
If the UK starts making restraints on immigrants then its only fair for the EU to do the same.Most EU immigrants residing in the UK are young, they are taxpayers and therefore they give a beneficial contribution to society. Can you say the same about the UK citizens who had retired in Spain, France and beyond?
Someone needs to, hopefully the fruit pickers can get a payrise so they are at least on 3 quid an hour.
Depends how you look at it. 27 loons that all share the same ideology all coming to an agreement in 7 years is not great.
Are you saying retirees like Paul don't ever buy anything locally?
We don't want them to be able to afford toilet paper. They might start getting ideas(shudders)
Nah, between the 27 you tend towards centrist policies
One thing I would like to understand further is how graduates here will be cheated out of their futures with Brexit?
Do we already have a lot of graduates working in jobs abroad fluent in European languages or is this like the fairy story we were told at school with computers coming in we would only be working about 4 hours a day?
Do we already have a lot of graduates working in jobs abroad fluent in European languages or is this like the fairy story we were told at school with computers coming in we would only be working about 4 hours a day?
I have no idea what you mean, but there are graduates working towards careers in the EU.
If it helps in anyway, I have one friend working in Brussles and 2 friends working elsewhere in Europe. Anecdotal. I don't know what the numbers are.
Around 1 million UK citizens live in Europe
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Tories to improve or at least protect workers rights?
Good luck with that.
Yeah, people might want to go and ask the doctors and nurses about what a bang up job the Tories have been doing looking after their workers rights. Or the police.
There are plenty of us, just because you've never met any means little. I graduated in civil engineering from a French Uni as part of the ERASMUS program 25 years ago when it was far less common and have spent most of my career overseas predominantly with French and German firms. Even now although I'm back in the UK with a UK firm we have offices in 7 other EU countries plus the US, China, Saudi, Dubai and India and work globally.
We're still to see what the upshot of Brexit will be for my company but I would not be surprised if they delisted on the LSE and moved the headquarters elsewhere whilst if visas became an issue for me I'll be off to the Netherlands, Belgium or France. My brother in law's family made the move out of the UK 3 weeks ago as his position as a European patent attorney and specialised chemist was looking bleak in the UK. Brexit won't rob us of our opportunities as our careers are fairly well established but it will rob the next generation of the opportunities we had and may well see them struggling in a country with far less tax revenue coming in if those of us who fear the effects of Brexit on our careers and pensions decide to Brexit ourselves and leave the UK to it without our not insubstantial tax revenue and spending.
I suspect because they will have to study subjects/topics which when they have qualified will mean they can apply for jobs with good prospects, those which add value to the economy, and which will underpin the UK's world wide opportunities.
Brexit means Brexit!
I wonder what the next ridiculous Brexit claim will be, now we've had "no one British works in Europe anyway".
I'm on the continent at least 2-3 times per month and in calls with other countries daily, what still surprises me is the sheer number of UK plate cars you see on the roads of mainland Europe throughout France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany and sometimes even further afield. Just checked the stats and it's just over 2.5 Million car crossings per year on the tunnel so probably the same again at least if you add in the ferries.
There are quite a lot of British people working in the EU, yes, although not enough probably to be a determining factor in the stay or leave debate. The truth is, rather like our footballers, there isn't currently much need from a purely employment or monetary perspective to go abroad (particularly in areas like financial services). However, if we go down the hard leave route, then that benign employment climate will get a lot harsher just as it gets a lot harder for British citizens to go to work in the EU.
Well as the re-moaners say, after Brexit, the UK will be so bad that nobody will want to come here... for many Brexiteers that's 'job done'!
Why would they want to damage the country that badly?
They will still have to live here.
The UK was never as great as the flag waving Little Englunders believed but it still has a fair way to fall and I can see no reason why anyone would help that fall in the name of patriotism, it's beyond insanity.
I have no idea what you mean, but there are graduates working towards careers in the EU.
If it helps in anyway, I have one friend working in Brussles and 2 friends working elsewhere in Europe. Anecdotal. I don't know what the numbers are.
Around 1 million UK citizens live in Europe
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Does that figure include the kids who work the summer in Ibiza etc?
All very reasonable but it seems reason left the building a long time ago. I think there are two obstacles to a reassessment of the pros and cons:
1. For the fanatics who have been fighting EU membership since at least Maastricht, it is essentially a matter of faith and evidence can be moulded to fit into the narrative. Besides, like all fanatics, they would welcome martyrdom.
2. For the much larger group of leavers who were just generally dissatisfied and wanted an outlet for their grievances, it would involve admitting they made a mistake (and no one likes to do so), plus some recognition by the government that there were sound reasons why they were pissed off. This should in theory be achievable but not under May (or Johnson).
I doubt it, you've usually got to be there for 12 months at least before you'd be counted as resident and be gone at least 12 months to drop off the UK figures and a full 3 years to be declared not ordinarily resident in the UK. Those figures look like the proper expats living and schooling, working or retired there.
Which tells me there's more than a million Brits out there.
This hatred of migrants hits the young and the poor hardest. Inflation doesn't touch the old, triple lock pensions mean they are immune to it, they won't be going abroad very often, not to work summers anyway, and they have all the time in the day to get a visa.
That's the whole point for many people, it wouldn't be damaging the country it would be saving the country from a United States of Europe, with a Euro currency, dominated by Germany, a concept fought against in two world wars and a concept no-one in the 1970's voted for when joining the Common Market, but nevertheless over the years its has been being formed, by stealth, by sleepwalking.
The majority of people (albeit a slim one) in the UK woke up just in time.
Leaving aside immigration issues and the connotations (that even Blair has recognised, belatedly of course), the UK will never give up the Pound (Sterling) and as such would always be in division two of the EU. A 'soft' Brexit would put us in division 3, so for many its better we breakaway and form our own Premier League.
I think the Germans of WW2 had slightly more than a common currency and boring bureaucracy in mind.
Indeed, but of course we have every reason to suppose they have changed their minds now... ask the Greeks about that one!
Ah yes, those evil Germans sending billions of euros of their own money to Greece. Clear sign of a fourth reich..
Yet more proof that Brexiteers know absolutely nothing about the EU or how it works. Looking forward to when the UK finally goes away , why not go now, what are you waiting for - because the Uk are off a cliff edge now or in 18 months time, it'll make no difference.
Has white dog shit come back yet?
With a large 'to do in return' list and a threat of bankruptcy attached if non-compliance. Ask a lot of Greeks about this and you get the reply they once more feel subjugated, not under the boot this time but under the eurowithdrawl threat.