So it can absorb all the middle East and African immigrants on their way from Italy and Greece in the upcoming re-distribution project that Mrs Merkel is planning to organise after Brexit is settled and also to try to persuade the Banks to relocate some financial interest from London.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
So it can absorb all the middle East and African immigrants on their way from Italy and Greece in the upcoming re-distribution project that Mrs Merkel is planning to organise after Brexit is settled and also to try to persuade the Banks to relocate some financial interest from London.
I think its more to do with the high profile element. French Unions or perhaps it should be groups which can apply maximum political as well as social pressures, eg. farmers, transport workers, etc seem to be able to bring France to a stand still or inflict humiliating defeats on the French Government, whether this applies in the Private Sector as a whole I'm not sure. Usual at some point in a high profile 'standoff' the French Government appears to give way, I can't recall a situation where the French Government publically, at least seems to win, that's not to say they didn't, but it doesn't seem to be held as a universal truth?
Yes, it does seem that way. I suppose I was musing to myself really, having been in a union for 40 years. They do lots of good things, both for workers and employers, but I've never been happy with strikes that hurt the general public. The wealthy can always get round their effects, and for them they're an inconvenience to be dealt with, but for poor people public service strikes, school strikes and so on can be horrible.
Yes, that is very true. I suppose the French Agricultural Workers/Unions could be praised for protecting the life style of many rural French citizens, in particular making sure the French Government kept the Common Agricultural Policy 'in play', despite it being a massive drain on the Common Market budget.
Unfortunately the British Unions never supported our Government's like that and the most vicious strikes (effects on the public) were the ones under Jim Callaghan that eventually allowed Mrs T into Downing Street. Once she had thumped the Miners British Unionism never really recovered, certainly in the eyes of most British workers, Unions could not win and hence membership of Trade Unions fell markedly. The last Miners Strike was the wrong battle, at the wrong time, against the wrong adversary, a glorious fight in the minds of its leaders, but one ultimately doomed to failure to a glorious failure. If our Unions had understood what the Common Market was really about back in the day, then either we would have been leading Europe now, or Brexit would have occurred at the time of the non-change of Sterling to the Euro, either way we would not be where we are today.
If I sound as though I'm blaming British Trades Unions I'm not, but they were so weak and singularly lacking in creative thought (as opposed to their French counterparts) that they allowed successive British Governments (Tory and Labour) to sleepwalk us in to the now EU monstrosity, whose clutches we are desperately trying to get out of, with some shred of dignity and without it costing us and our grandkids Billions.
{ PS I am not anti Union, for a year I was the youngest AUEW Shop Steward in East Manchester in the late sixties, the most influential 12 months in my life up to that time}
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It could also be argued that unions in the UK are now lower profile because of their and their political allies' success. At one time unions had to take up arms against so many things that are actually now enshrined in law, both British and European. The chief weapon of a worker treated unfairly now, whether they are in a union or not, is via tribunal or courts. Years ago the only defence was a strike threat.
To be honest I don't think that can be argued with so much of mainstream industry driven into the ground, or into the arms of foreign owners. The numbers of young people persuaded/conned into entering into debt, for what, to study in the main for 'mickey mouse' degrees, that will get them zero chance of employment. The large number of young (and old) people on zero hours and low pay, the stagnation in the public sector pay, the working poor now having to draw meagre benefits, advent of food banks, etc. This is no glorious success for trades unions or their allies (by the way who are their allies?). Neither is it a clarion call for the EU!
It is true Britain being part of the EU has earned lots of people new 'rights at work'... that's if they are in work, in proper jobs, which are few and far between, the most important Employee rights were determined when Britain was outside the EU.
Look back over relatively recent TU history and the main battles they have fought is with one another, for the continuing slide in membership. Traditional Trades Unionism is going nowhere in Britain until it addresses some fundamental problems, one of which is being able to have the slightest impact on Government policy, it will not do this through the Labour party who has lost all credibility with the base workforce and retains the chance of power only in the eyes of the looney left and its followers.
The last election did not signify a shift in public opinion, only for the BBC/Newsnight (who are desperate to get some credibility back after pooh-poohing for weeks, even on the night itself, the chance of a Brexit outcome in the Referendum) Theresa May ran a piss poor campaign, JC promised the earth to everyone, knowing he would never have to live up to his promises and lots of people who quite liked their own existing Labour MP voted Labour, not because of policy, but because they were confident that JC would not get in, because everybody else would surely vote against, so they could vote for their favourite MP with impunity.
A 'tragedy' of errors, some might think... and they are probably right!
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The BBC's desperate? My god you've turned into devilish. Everyone is desperate or begging in devilish-world.
Funny, in the sense of strange , agreed
You mean the EU even the 5 million includes Canadians
"Being ourselves" has shone out like a beacon since last year. Who cares about the money.
Yes, it is irritating when the piper calls the tune...isn't it! It could only be viewed as such in the EU!
Yes, sorry did get carried away a bit there!
I was meaning the BBC programme NEWSNIGHT not the BBC as a whole.. although if you... no won't go there!
He stopped posting because he was looking ridiculous and nothing he said has remotely come true, the result of the referendum wasn't a surprise to me, although initially straight after the referendum I thought, surely they can't be this stupid but indeed they were. The mentality of the average uninformed Brit was one of the reasons I left 10 years ago.
You see this conspiracy theory that has "scared" the Brexiters that Germany was dictating to the Uk what was happening in their own country. Well done to the British politicians to persuade a large chunk of the British electorate into believing that all the problems the public were facing were nothing to do with the government but that evil EU and more so those Germans who run it.
Unfortunately to the surprise of the Leave campaign, they won, they don't know what to do next and faffing around for the last 15 months, hoping it'll all go away.
Unfortunately the clock is ticking and once again reality is kicking in.
Apparently now it is the evil Merkel that's going to come to the rescue of the UK because Germany can't survive without the UK.
More like reality is that Germany and France who are the big 2 are rather looking forward to the disappearance of the Uk from the scene. The other larger countries like Italy, Spain and Poland will see them have a bigger say as well.
We've had the Austrian scare, the Dutch scare, the Italian scare, the French scare and even the German scare where Brexiters were hoping that the far right would get into power, none of it happened - we've got Trump and we've got Brexit. In another 3 years and 4 months Trump could be gone , the music may stop and who's left standing on their own- could be the UK.
Hopefully, free at last... !
So the truth will out Paul ...you left a sinking ship? No women and children first then?
Surely with your mentality so much higher than the rest of us 'dumbo's' you could have stayed and turned the tide..?
In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king, eh?
Fess up, you just love us.
Very true, I even married one
Hopefully, free at last... !
So the truth will out Paul ...you left a sinking ship? No women and children first then?
Surely with your mentality so much higher than the rest of us 'dumbo's' you could have stayed and turned the tide..?
In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king, eh?
In truth I would have left many years previously but couldn't due to work commitments but thankfully advances in technology let me escape.
Free at last
The women and children escaped with meSo you had seen the writing on the wall well before Brexit? That must be so satisfying.
That advance in new technology, it wouldn't be that it put you out of a job by any chance?
Free at last
I take it you were the Head of the escape committee? Are you sure they all wanted to go, hope you didn't have the women and children digging the tunnel?
So you had seen the writing on the wall well before Brexit? That must be so satisfying.
That advance in new technology, it wouldn't be that it put you out of a job by any chance?
I take it you were the Head of the escape committee? Are you sure they all wanted to go, hope you didn't have the women and children digging the tunnel?
Yes, it was satisfying that because I did, I didn't lose a lot of money.
It didn't put me out of a job as I was the boss and I wasn't really going to sack myself but meant I could stay in constant contact wherever I was.
As my wife is french and the children dual nationals, not a lot of persuasion needed.
[Sorry Paul I missed this one, its been a hectic day!]
Anyway, Mrs Merkel will not rescue Britain, in fact she will drive a hard bargain, maybe up to £100B over 10 years (sounds about right!) that's what she will want in return for granting Britain everything it wants, it will be known hence forth as the GB Option or the UK Pact!
The rest of the EU may moan a bit, groan a bit, pretend to stand up to Merkel, but as they always do when she rattles the money box, they will all back down. As she will point out if they don't like it they can make up Britain's contribution themselves, but Germany's not!
Obviously what I've described may not be the outcome, (this is a conspiracy theory after all) but most likely the 'hard' Brexit is the only other choice, that's likely and lets be honest nobody really wants, but... but.. if the money cannot be settled, then that may be the outcome...scary eh?
As I've said previously the casualties in all this will be Theresa May and Claude Junker having to fall on their swords, Theresa because of the money agreement, (will be seen as a give away in Britain) and Claude because this could all have been avoided had he not felt so vitriolic against Cameron and given him some leeway on his requested concessions in the first place... actually the more I repeat this scenario, the more I think it might 'have legs'..?
Good for you, its always satisfying to be able to get the money out, before the collapse, seen it happen many times in my (former) career, he who hesitates is lost etc.!
Sounds like you've got it made Paul, all the best to you and yours.
You will be glad to see the back of us Brits no doubt, Mrs Merkel will take of you now!
EU citizen or British citizen? Why not both. I think the UK's a bit of a shit tip nowadays, but it's a decent passport to have.
I never hesitate.
I wish the Brits were a bit less isolationist, never felt I belonged.
I also hope the UK gets out of this well, believe or not, but something's gotta change.
It will Brexit will see to that!
I sense a lot of bitterness - there's a lot of gloom predictions for the UK, but in reality it'll be largely fine with some largely smaller repercussions. There's too many in this thread who seem gleeful and hopeful that the UK suffers. There's also this tendency to dress up those that voted leave as a some dumb Brit that thought xyz stereotype, in your post its that they believed the evil EU was the root of their problems. But the reality is a lot of people are more logical than that (of course you do have the idiots - but they're not a majority).
The problems facing the EU are highlighted by the migrant crisis in Hungary - the EU court's trying to force Hungary to accept migrants against its will. It's that forceful loss of sovereignty that's the major issue here. The EU's great as a trading block and for closer research bodies, but it's ever-closer integration politically is a huge problem. There's just far too much diversity in the EU to try and make into a federalist body like the US. Here's my last post in this thread -
You don't half talk a lot of shite.
It's not bitterness, it's bewilderment. The forecasts are nothing to do with wanting the Uk to suffer, it's just the logical conclusion. People make statements, even obviously intelligent people on here but because they haven't checked their facts and make wild assumptions they make themselves look daft. Brainwashing appears to work.
As for a federalist state, take France where I live, they are as strongly patriotic as the UK and there's no way they would want to be part of a USE. France is in the EU fine but they are a sovereign state and the people realise this, why don't the Brits.
As for immigrants if countries sign up , they're not forced to, they abide by the rules. The UK opted out of taking the fleeing refugees but because they've been lied to the public think they are overrun with them.
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Takes one to know one son...Have a nice day!
I ain't your son you condescending piece of shit. And if I was I would be embarrassed to admit it.
That's what you should be worried about
No worries Paul, none whatsoever!
after all 'I Believe'!!I agree, though is that because we are a major contributor to the EU budget, second only to Germany?
Militarily we are much closer to the Americans yet also the biggest single power in Europe (exc.Russia). That is probably another reason why we are valued.
I agree politically the Aussies are closer to the US and sending warships through the Taiwan Straits a few years ago was unwise, it seriously annoyed the Chinese.
I agree about the mineral wealth too, although that mining focus weakened their economy in the global downturn.
Re building a new model, I would expect in these current negotiations with Trudeau for example that perhaps it is a sounding out process to see if this is feasible.
A lot of these people in the old colonies consider England the mother country, they even watch Coronation Street ( that shocked me) and most like our Monarchy.
At the moment we are paying for 2 political systems Westminster and Brussels MEPs , so some of that money would go to the new bureaucracies etc.
Govts are too close to corporations to care about really improving health, I know from fixing a lot of my own problems and helping others. Does not mean that it can't change?
I think if the US play hardball, we should remind them we are buying US military hardware yet if they don't appreciate that, mention we have heard from Turkey that Russia s-400 missiles look very useful and see if their attitude changes!
There are strange undercurrents about the military I hear we are continuing a strong bond with the French with building shared defences from alt news sources!!!!
I agree about the UK on the world stage and the challenge it represents yet with growing Islamic terror do British people still want this global role? Has anyone asked them?
British people are largely close to Canada, Australia and NZ. The old English speaking colonies. I don't think most care about the rest, it is more the Westminster elite wanting to be seen as global players.
Good point to consider yet the fellow English speaking colonies (except the US) are like cousins with so many ex-pat Brits there.
Re Scotland they could get their exit bill yet would be given their sum of the debt like RBS, that would seriously hurt their economy.
Is the EU really a level playing field, I have heard we play by the rules and the others don't like protecting their utility companies from UK competition and Spain for example insisting that all business are at least 51% Spanish owned.
Remember JPR we nearly always back the US in the UN, we nearly always send troops to show support in their conflicts and we are buying their military hardware, if they play hardball we can entertain the prospect of speaking with Putin the representative of our fellow WWII ally, just like Turkey a fellow NATO member is doing.
Good point
True though the cost of any transitional deal will need careful scrutiny and negotiation.
Like the quote though many countries consider us as family, when the British and Irish Lions go to NZ they get a massive financial windfall. Most love the Royals too.
That's interesting, where do you take that information from? The UK have less personnel, less tanks, less aircrafts and as many submarines as France.
@The Outsider - I think you overestimate the "Anglosphere" as an economic replacement for the EU as opposed to a cultural and (under US leadership) military bloc. I have no doubt those countries wish us well but distant, sparsely populated Australia is not exactly a replacement for Germany.
Wild assumptions still present I see.
Yes but yours only have a reverse gear
Yes but yours only have a reverse gear
Touché.Today will be interesting, im not sure they could have handled things much worse up until this point. How the Tories still have even limited popularity in the polls is astounding.
I ain't your son you condescending piece of shit. And if I was I would be embarrassed to admit it.
We've got the DNA results here. The DNA results have an accuracy rate of 99.6%. I Believe, you, are the father of C3Pique.
*audience gasps*
Aus/NZ are slightly different because so many of them are British immigrants including huge numbers of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. Even then though, those bonds of 'family' will usually only stretch as far as its within the interests of their new country to do so. They certainly won't do anything that has a negative affect on their own economies or lives just in order to help us.
We've got the DNA results here. The DNA results have an accuracy rate of 99.6%. I Believe, you, are the father of C3Pique.
*audience gasps*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005
55% of the French people voted against the ratification of the EU constitution.
They were ignored.
That's the definition of losing your sovereignty and your democracy. Rightly or wrongly, the next French government ratified the EU constitution anyway.
I believe that if you held a "Frexit" you would have a similar vote.
Perhaps that's because the people don't understand the consequences fully. The EU becoming more federalised COULD be a power of good, but it's hard to ignore the erosion of choice - especially with forced migration quotas being placed on Hungary, Poland etc.