That part was, of course, like the rest of article 50, also written by a British Judge, Lord Kerr, so they can't even blame foreigners for this one, this is ALL on us.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That part was, of course, like the rest of article 50, also written by a British Judge, Lord Kerr, so they can't even blame foreigners for this one, this is ALL on us.
Only anti bias huh? Only digging for negative, typical Daily Mail. Scum of the newspaper world.
Did you know Cameron had to use the veto to stop the Tobin tax being implemented, the only time Britain has used the veto. So what happens once Britain comes out and those business move to the EU, will they have to pay it then?
Another thing I recall was us being forced to give prisoners the vote, not a major thing on its own yet why did we comply?
Yes, it is all rather absurd really. My new highlight is how Farage and co. now complain that the EU is making it all a bit hard and complicated.
Not like there had been a debate about that.
I'm not sure I remember anyone going ballistic, but I do recall Barnier saying that all negotiations would be out in the open with no secrets, which of course he knew full well did not suit May's position at the time, that her government was elected to negotiate and she did not need a parliamentary vote of approval for the results.
Which makes me wonder why Barnier then did a complete u-turn and decided every single detail of the EU's financial requirements for Brexit was a bigger secret than France's nuclear missile codes.
Perhaps Barnier just wanted to be nice to May for a bit? It does seem odd though that an awful lot of people in the EU team must have been working on these 'line by line' figures, yet there hasn't been a single leak. And the same on the British side, where let's face it everyone's pretty split down the middle by what to do, no leaks at all.
I'm not pretending to understand it, but something doesn't add up.
From wiki..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirst_v_United_Kingdom_(No_2)
I don't see any good reason why we shouldn't give everyone the vote anyway. Committing any crime with a jail sentence shouldn't be automatic grounds for losing a fundamental right.
There had been 2 leaks one in May and one lately (the one were May is said to have begged for a deal). Both were criticised harshly by the UK government and at one point Merkel had to step in to avoid things from degenerating further. If the likes of Farage had their way, the EU would even speak to JC about Brexit let alone be public on negotiations and every minor detail. So I wont be surprised if this idea of hiding the details to the general public is backed by the UK as well.
There is no leak because there isn't a single figure, there isn't an actual bill. What the UK currently pays towards the EU is an addition of several agreements, in reality the EU can't hand a bill, both sides have to look at all the agreements and joint ventures, and see what will stay and what won't, some will lead to the EU buying out the UK others will lead to the UK still funding them and enjoying their benefits. Just think about something like Horizon 2020 will the UK stop their involvement or do they want to be part of it, do they stop paying their share in 2019 or at the end of the budget period in 2020, if they stop should the EU fund the current british research?
The EU can't decide for the UK and the UK can't be left unaware of every single research that would be impacted, that's partially why there isn't a single number because a bulk number wouldn't be relevant(I don't know if that's the correct word) at this point.
This is about as reliable as the Daily Star's latest transfer exclusive though, actually less so as you're looking at politically motivated spin.
But yeah, we all know May wants the details secret, my question was why has Barnier changed his mind?
I probably wasn't clear, but I wasn't asking why there hasn't been a leak of the bottom line, more why there hasn't been a leak of any detail at all. Zilch. I suppose all the civil servants and political advisors involved, and there must be many, must just be better controlled than I'd expect them to be, old cynic that I am.
Brexiters are experts in blaming everything on the EU. Their very political career depends on it as it will give them an excuse to justify a bad Brexit. I think that Barnier is trying to avoid making the EU look like the bad guy when possible.
Oh I see, that's a good point. Like you I always assume that someone will blab too much but the same thing happened with Macron this summer, no leaks were available and he gave the instruction to take every piece of paper after meetings, maybe that's what the EU/UK do?
Must be. Thanks
Ah, Barnier totally changed his mind because of the evil Brexiters. Thanks for clearing that up.
Did he change his mind or was he talking through his backside because the transparency chapiter of the EU-UK art.50 terms reference reads like that:
Looks like he hadn't read it doesn't it JP? Well found.
Brexiteers promised an endless line of countries who will be begging the UK for a trade deal. According to them the EU will be the first in that line as it cant afford not selling wines and cars to the UK market. That isn't happening for obvious reasons which of course is bad news for both Brexiters and the UK's economic future. If shit hits fan then someone must take the blame and we all know whose the no 1 target for Brexiters.
I think that Barnier is acting wisely here by avoiding adding unnecessary fuel to 'the EU hates the UK' debate. We islanders tend to be quite resilient against an enemy that tries to bully us. My grandparents suffered starvation and great hardships because they perceived that Mussolini was bullying us (and you did the same in quite an number of wars as well) to submission. However we're equally unforgiving towards those caught trying to screw us up. If Barnier is able to stir the British public from the 'EU is bullying us' to 'Brexiters has sold us smoke' then things can get badly for Brexiters very quickly.
If you switch your sarcasm off then you'll notice that its probably yet another negotiation tactic used by Europe. It also explains why the EU has given red carpet treatment to JC. The idea behind it is "we like you guys, we want a close relationship with you but these idiots aren't making it happen"
Barnier is just 'window-dressing' for the other 24 states, a sop to them, to pretend they are somehow being consulted, or he may become a convenient 'patsy'(for both sides) if things do go pear shaped!
Germany, France and Britain will seek to sort this between them, its likely to require Britain to pay its leaving bill (if they can ever agree on what should be on it) and to give a contribution towards other matters, that will ensure solvency (i.e. nobody else paying anymore in or drawing any less out) for the EU for perhaps up to a decade, may depend on how long it will take for Germany and France to drive though to the new European Super State.
Estimated cost £80B, to paid over a decade e.g. £8B annually, in theory saving Britain £1-2B per year, at least that's how Theresa will probably try to present it to the nation (and to mollify Boris), its the 'best she can do', she will say. May will then, return and 'fall on her sword' more or less immediately like Cameron did, or when the Tory party 'grandees' order her to do so!
In return for all this guaranteed 'dosh' Britain will be granted access to the EU markets more or less as now, similarly the EU to the UK Market, with everything else more or less 'as is', there may have to be some special court of justice, set up that's made up of British legal eagles and the ECJ, to agree to oversee the rights of those citizens of both EU living here and Brits living in the EU countries. The Irish will sort their own border issues, as they have always (in reality) done and Britain and the EU will 'sandbag' whatever agreement is reached.
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So we'll actually be better off than we were before? Well stitch that Barnier.
Particularly pleased that the Irish problem's been sorted.
[QUOTE
I don't see any good reason why we shouldn't give everyone the vote anyway. Committing any crime with a jail sentence shouldn't be automatic grounds for losing a fundamental right.[/QUOTE]
I disagree, I think it should be removed and restored when their liberty is also restored as a welcome back to society message.
I don't see any good reason why we shouldn't give everyone the vote anyway. Committing any crime with a jail sentence shouldn't be automatic grounds for losing a fundamental right.[/QUOTE]
I disagree, I think it should be removed and restored when their liberty is also restored as a welcome back to society message.
I disagree, I think it should be removed and restored when their liberty is also restored as a welcome back to society message.[/QUOTE]
Either way, it’s hardly a key factor in terms of weighing up the pros and cons of leave vs remain. Although a good Daily Mail propoganda issue.
This is how it goes according to Daniel Hannan, one of the architects of Brexit :
"After 43 years, we have pushed the door ajar. A rectangle of light dazzles us and, as our eyes adjust, we see a summer meadow. Swallows swoop against the blue sky. We hear the gurgling of a little brook. Now we stride into the sunlight."
Got it ?
"After 43 years, we have pushed the door ajar. A rectangle of light dazzles us and, as our eyes adjust, we see a summer meadow. Swallows swoop against the blue sky. We hear the gurgling of a little brook. Now we stride into the sunlight."
Got it ?
What next : How to get the best from Brexit. By D. Hannan.What the feck did I just read..
Maybe that's the most rigorous part of the book.
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Could he really be meaning: "vultures swooping overhead, the crash of waves on the rocks below. Blinded by the sunlight we walk straight off the edge of a cliff"
I tried this with my dad because he was a Brexiteer and he used the old German cars example of why they wouldn't try and shaft us.
It's so ridiculous that anyone thinks we've got a leg to stand on against a bloc of 26 other countries that we're taking our ball and going away from. We've got no bargaining position whatsoever on anything.
Going to prison does automatically take away many fundamental rights voting being only one of them. It puts a bit of a bind on your freedom of association and movement and your right to earn a living for example.
It always has stopped UK prisoners from voting and if you want to change that we are a democracy and if you win the argument then so be it.
I object to it being imposed over our elected governments head. You would too if you disagreed with the principle. I can't see how this isn't a UK matter under subsidiarity.
The majority of imports from eu come from just 6 or 7 countries, they might have something to lose but the likes of greece and Slovenia wont.
Greece and Slovenia export people and they won't let the uk close that route to prosperity for their citizens
Did you read the link? It wasn't imposing anything, it was a judgement saying a blanket arbritrary ban wasn't ok. They weren't saying you can't remove voting rights from prisoners if you choose.
Either way, it’s hardly a key factor in terms of weighing up the pros and cons of leave vs remain. Although a good Daily Mail propoganda issue.[/QUOTE]
No, it seems to be an example of how Britain falls over itself to implement everything whereas other EU states adopt protectionist policies like protecting their energy industry.
The amount I’ve just paid for a meal for 2 in Reykjavik makes me sad. Fecking Brexit and the plummeting GBP
Inflation beginning to bite.
Somalians use the same route
David Davis has said the withdrawal agreement will favour the EU financially. Who'd o' thought it ?
Yes i found that an interesting admission. Doesn't seem like Brexiters care though.
So much for exports..
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-warn-of-deserting-uk-suppliers-after-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-warn-of-deserting-uk-suppliers-after-brexit