Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

When skilled jobs go it is a race to the bottom, though great for the shareholder and if you are comfortably retired, we can't all work for the state - NHS, Police etc.

Like everything else, Globalization has its merits and drawbacks. For example, end customers will more variety of international options available to end customer that may not always be available through small/local businesses. There needs to be balance. For example, where global partners tend to compete directly with local, then those should be monitored/restricted as necessary. For other areas where it offers better vareity or options it can be encouraged.

I tend to discount sweeping "x is bad" type statements as they typically tend to be emotional responses and not usually not merit based.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Regarding the idea of Brexit as a shield against the worst excesses of globalisation, Rees-Mogg is today claiming there would be a £135bn windfall over 5 years if there is a hard Brexit. This would be achieved through such progressive measures as slashing regulation, reducing corporation tax and reducing stamp duty on property. Liam Fox’s department also tweeted an endorsement of these views (since removed).

 

[Dobba]

Regarding the idea of Brexit as a shield against the worst excesses of globalisation, Rees-Mogg is today claiming there would be a £135bn windfall over 5 years if there is a hard Brexit. This would be achieved through such progressive measures as slashing regulation, reducing corporation tax and reducing stamp duty on property. Liam Fox’s department also tweeted an endorsement of these views (since removed).

And that doesn't include the windfall from investing in the California Gold Rush, which he thinks will really take off in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Dan]

 

[horsechoker]

So they decided to vote for relegation from the Premier League to the Championship, they thought the grass was greener but it's a tough life down there and it could take many years to get that promotion that they thought would be so easy.

I'd say it's more like deciding not to play in the Champions League and then trying to make a new tournament with the likes of New York Red Bulls, River Plate and Melbourne FC.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Brexiters have been told this kind of thing for the best part of two years but they've still got their fingers in their ears and anyway it's called scaremongering in Cloud Cuckoo Land

 

[Raees]

This is exactly why I know that Brexit is not going to happen. It is a political joke taken to an extreme. It stopped being funny a long time ago.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Dominic Grieve currently shredding Brexit and, by inplication, his own party’s leadership.

 

[711]

I don't think the tariffs are an insurmountable problem, given the state of the pound, but being out of the Customs Union will be a disaster.

Best I can think of is to pay whatever it takes to stop in that, and swallow having no input on it's rules and regulations any more. Long term rules will be set to favour others of course, but action is needed now, time is running out.

 

[MoskvaRed]

I don't think the tariffs are an insurmountable problem, given the state of the pound, but being out of the Customs Union will be a disaster.

Best I can think of is to pay whatever it takes to stop in that, and swallow having no input on it's rules and regulations any more. Long term rules will be set to favour others of course, but action is needed now, time is running out.

That is preferable to crashing out but it begs the question of why go through the trauma of leaving in the first place if you end up with nothing better than damage limitation.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

I don't think the tariffs are an insurmountable problem, given the state of the pound, but being out of the Customs Union will be a disaster.

Best I can think of is to pay whatever it takes to stop in that, and swallow having no input on it's rules and regulations any more. Long term rules will be set to favour others of course, but action is needed now, time is running out.

You get the tariffs he is talking about are just the ones on the components, right? 10% on every single one, and the cost of dealing with the admin around actually reporting and paying it.

A great example of how screwed we will be is the BMW mini. The gearbox and/or its components go across the border between the UK and europe 3 times before they are eventually fitted into a car.

Under WTO rules, there is a tariff every single time.

 

[711]

You get the tariffs he is talking about are just the ones on the components, right? 10% on every single one, and the cost of dealing with the admin around actually reporting and paying it.

A great example of how screwed we will be is the BMW mini. The gearbox and/or its components go across the border between the UK and europe 3 times before they are eventually fitted into a car.

Under WTO rules, there is a tariff every single time.

Yeah, I don't deny it's bad, just thinking what the best course of action is likely to be.

Hopefully something a little more original than 'stop in', as I think that may have been mentioned before.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You get the tariffs he is talking about are just the ones on the components, right? 10% on every single one, and the cost of dealing with the admin around actually reporting and paying it.

A great example of how screwed we will be is the BMW mini. The gearbox and/or its components go across the border between the UK and europe 3 times before they are eventually fitted into a car.

Under WTO rules, there is a tariff every single time.

So to make like simpler for BMW just move the production elsewhere in Europe, wonder how any times we'll hear that over the coming years if there's no deal.

 

[Dan]

 

[Cheesy]

I'd have more sympathy with the anti-globalisation argument if it weren't for the fact that the chief Brexiters are all predominantly free-market types who were frothing at the mouth at the prospect of further deregulation etc. The EU's not perfect but if you're more pro-worker/left-wing then it's better than the current Tory mob.

 

[Stanley Road]

Why are there no brits filling the huge vacancies we have in Holland throughout the hospitalty industry? Why are there even vacancies? Surely eastern europeans can do the job? Oh wait, just speaking English isn't enough.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

WTF has that got to do with us leaving the EU?

Everything, and how on earth can you justify us in that sentence?

"and think on occasion about other peoples lives and why they might disagree with our priorities and vote accordingly." me


"One of the main reasons I left the UK in the early 90's." you


What is that 25 years not living in the Uk? but you think you know the country you gave up on and left as a lost hope so long ago as so irredeemably bad you had to leave because of your Nostradamus like ability to discern how much better the where ever the feck it is that you left for was going to be.

You make my point for me exactly.

 

[Adisa]

Very easy to see why Cameron resigned after leaving us in this mess.
What a bastard.

 

[Wibble]

Everything, and how on earth can you justify us in that sentence?

"Everything" is that your final answer? Because if it is it sounds you don't actually have an explanation.

And I use us because I am British. Why do you think? I don't happen to live there at the moment, just as others in this thread don't, but believe it or not crossing the channel doesn't make you not British. I also care passionately about what happens to my country of birth and all my friends who live there still, and this bizarre act of self destruction will be an utter economic and social disaster for the country.

"and think on occasion about other peoples lives and why they might disagree with our priorities and vote accordingly." me

Seems like a rather ephemoral reason for such drastic action. I'm sure you must have had something a bit more concrete in mind.

"One of the main reasons I left the UK in the early 90's." you

What is that 25 years not living in the UK? but you think you know the country you gave up on and left as a lost hope so long ago as so irredeemably bad you had to leave because of your Nostradamus like ability to discern how much better the where ever the feck it is that you left for was going to be.

"One of". Certainly not the only reason. Employment/study was an even bigger reason.

And you didn't need to be Nostrodamus to see that Australia was a better prospect than the UK in the very early 90's. 3 decades of continuous economic growth with no recession even during the GFC seem to have proven me right. And you know what? Australia would do almost anything to be part of such a powerful economic free trade area.

And yes. I still know the country well enough to have an informed position.

I've always hated the class bullshit that goes on in the UK. Still stuns me that right wing dog whistling works so well in the UK and gets huge swathes of voters to vote for people and policies that are harmful to them but for the betterment of the top end of town.

You make my point for me exactly.

I doubt it. Although I can't be sure as I don't know what point you think you are making, as you aren't clear at all.

 

[Sweet Square]

Possible back tracking ?

 

[Tarrou]

Possible back tracking ?

Dayum

 

[AshfordLad]

From what I understand the people that you guys are talking about have the right of abode which means that they are commonwealth citizens which means that they are not foreign citizens. Which give them the right to vote.

No. Right of Abode means something else (and much detailed) with regards to UK immigration system. Commonwealth citizens even without right of abode can vote in the UK if they have a work/student/spouse visa.

Only if they have indefinite leave to remain or unlimited right of entry which extremely few of the Commonwealth citizens have these days. Ask the Hong Kong Chinese who tried fleeing to the UK when we handed Hong Kong back to China but ended up taking their cash and entrepreneurial skills to Canada, America and Australia instead as the UK had pulled the rug from all bar a few percent of them years earlier unseen.

Flat out wrong. Anyone from commonwealth who is legally resident (on any visa) can vote.

To get ILR or URE status takes up to 2 years if you are already married to a British citizen, 5 years if not and is becoming less and less likely to be granted unless you are a high net worth individual or fall into one of the desirable skill categories. Essentially that much vaunted Australian points based immigration system you all think we should adopt once we've stopped the EU interfering.

Wrong again and what does your comment even mean? Did I say if I was for it or against it? I don't really care either way but you seem awfully defensive even while clueless about these things.

 

[Bury Red]

Flat out wrong. Anyone from commonwealth who is legally resident (on any visa) can vote.

To be legally resident you need either indefinite leave to remain, or unlimited right of entry (ie a work visa, student visa etc) otherwise you are a tourist. Since 2003 they have progressively made it harder and harder to get either so it's not just like anyone from the Commonwealth can rock up and vote in our elections.

 

[Stanley Road]

I've always hated the class bullshit that goes on in the UK. Still stuns me that right wing dog whistling works so well in the UK and gets huge swathes of voters to vote for people and policies that are harmful to them but for the betterment of the top end of town.

This is what always stuns me when a Tory govt is voted in and why I really really don't understand people complaining about brexit. People on the remain side should have no voice, every single voter had a chance to vote for a party not offering a referendum and they didn't take it. Remind me who the idiots are again?

 

[Bury Red]

This is what always stuns me when a Tory govt is voted in and why I really really don't understand people complaining about brexit. People on the remain side should have no voice, every single voter had a chance to vote for a party not offering a referendum and they didn't take it. Remind me who the idiots are again?

No arguing they're idiots Stan but that's the way the UK elections have gone my entire voting life. It's largely down to the fact that people tend to believe the press lies and personal attacks that dominate the UK news stands with only the Guardian really staying on the left but keeping out of the mud slinging and even the Mirror flip flopping across the political aisle. When you look at the personal attacks that Kinnock, Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have had to weather compared with the way the press seem to bow down to Maggie, May, Cameron and even prats like Hague and Johnson you can see how the public might get a bit confused.

Thankfully it looks like Corbyn might get the chance to prove you don't need to be a tory in disguise like Blair to get Labour elected but sadly not before the current clown car has honked its horn and watched the wheels fall off the country as the idiots commanded.

 

[2 man midfield]

@The Outsider

You can want to protect our borders from overcrowding without being a daily mail reading racist.

What those with genuine concerns regarding immigration need is it calmly explained to them that the very best foreign doctors ensure that we have the best healthcare in the world, as well as the fact that immigrants paying tax in this country ensures a higher standard of living for us all.

What they don't need is "you fecking dumb racist cnut, I hope you're happy".

 

[Stanley Road]

No arguing they're idiots Stan but that's the way the UK elections have gone my entire voting life. It's largely down to the fact that people tend to believe the press lies and personal attacks that dominate the UK news stands with only the Guardian really staying on the left but keeping out of the mud slinging and even the Mirror flip flopping across the political aisle. When you look at the personal attacks that Kinnock, Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have had to weather compared with the way the press seem to bow down to Maggie, May, Cameron and even prats like Hague and Johnson you can see how the public might get a bit confused.

Thankfully it looks like Corbyn might get the chance to prove you don't need to be a tory in disguise like Blair to get Labour elected but sadly not before the current clown car has honked its horn and watched the wheels fall off the country as the idiots commanded.

I feckin hope so but if they were to inherit a pile of shit then we'd be back on the merry go round.

 

[AshfordLad]

To be legally resident you need either indefinite leave to remain, or unlimited right of entry (ie a work visa, student visa etc) otherwise you are a tourist. Since 2003 they have progressively made it harder and harder to get either so it's not just like anyone from the Commonwealth can rock up and vote in our elections.

That is just daft. Can you please go read the definition of what a visa means.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Brexiters have been told this kind of thing for the best part of two years but they've still got their fingers in their ears and anyway it's called scaremongering in Cloud Cuckoo Land

I thought the argument was that they were prepared to take a financial hit to their wallets to save the country from cultural appropriation.

 

[Bury Red]

That is just daft. Can you please go read the definition of what a visa means.

After 13 years as an expat in 3 different Commonwealth countries with wife and step daughter with me I'm fairly clued up on the nuances of work visas, dependency visas, student visas and long term social visitors permits having jumped through the varying hoops multiple times.

It's you that needs to read up, especially as you're the one claiming any commonwealth citizen can waltz in and vote in a UK election. What point is it that you think I am missing?

 

[2 man midfield]

Anyone been listening to radio 2 today? Some interesting correlations between out voters and sections of society

 

[JPRouve]

After 13 years as an expat in 3 different Commonwealth countries with wife and step daughter with me I'm fairly clued up on the nuances of work visas, dependency visas, student visas and long term social visitors permits having jumped through the varying hoops multiple times.

It's you that needs to read up, especially as you're the one claiming any commonwealth citizen can waltz in and vote in a UK election. What point is it that you think I am missing?

From what I understand the only commonwealth citizens that doesn't require a leave to remain are the ones that have a right to abode otherwise to qualify for british citizenship, commonwealth citizens are required to be UK residents and have leave to remain in the UK.

 

[AshfordLad]

After 13 years as an expat in 3 different Commonwealth countries with wife and step daughter with me I'm fairly clued up on the nuances of work visas, dependency visas, student visas and long term social visitors permits having jumped through the varying hoops multiple times.

It's you that needs to read up, especially as you're the one claiming any commonwealth citizen can waltz in and vote in a UK election. What point is it that you think I am missing?

No. I said if they are on a resident visa. It does not have to be "indefinite" (as you states several times). I know a couple of guys at work who voted in the referendum having only come to the UK that summer on Tier2 visas. Also, my girlfriend who was on a Tier4 visa has voted in all the elections since she got here.

Anyway silly thing to argue about. As said earlier, I don't really have an opinion on whether they should have the vote or not. You just seem to assume I did while I was simply posting a correcting someone's post.

From what I understand the only commonwealth citizens that doesn't require a leave to remain are the ones that have a right to abode otherwise to qualify for british citizenship, commonwealth citizens are required to be UK residents and have leave to remain in the UK.

This is correct. The leave can be limited or Indefinite.

 

[JPRouve]

This is correct. The leave can be limited or Indefinite.

Which is my point from the beginning, they are not foreign citizens but british citizens, the other poster was wrong.

Edit: Not british citizens but commonwealth citizens and subject to the crown.

 

[Blackwidow]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-of-consequences-of-leaving-eu-customs-union

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I thought the argument was that they were prepared to take a financial hit to their wallets to save the country from cultural appropriation.

Yes but they think it only applies to German cars so the bloke in Hartlepool or Stoke-on-Trent on minimum wage has decided he won't be buying his brand new Merc after Brexit - problem solved.

 

[The Outsider]

I'm sure Asia would provide those parts if things cannot be amicably worked out with the EU.

 

[Abizzz]

I'm sure Asia would provide those parts if things cannot be amicably worked out with the EU.

From which supplier within which trade agreement? I'm pretty sure if sourcing it from Asia would be the better alternative folks at HONDA would be doing so...

 

[The Outsider]

Let me guess, you read the Daily Express.

I don't yet do have friends in the police.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I'm sure Asia would provide those parts if things cannot be amicably worked out with the EU.

Simpler to move the factory to the EU, no tariffs or delays - get the drift