Before you know it Australia will be able to take part in the Eurovision song contest.............Oh Wait
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Good luck participating in the Eurovision then
I think we've traditionally liked to position ourselves as half way between them but I fear once this process is done the resulting bad feeling could definitely make this true. Still, the UK is populated with plenty of people who feel European and consider their ties to Europe to be significantly stronger than their ties to the US. Even if we do share language and a quasi-religious deference to corporations.
The only wool being pulled is by the EU, they are about as undemocratic in structure and in process as you can get.
We can both have our views on the amount of democracy in the British system, but not I'm afraid compared with the EU. As your helpful article indicated the Council and Commissioners are unelected, the President is appointed and so are the Commissioners, and it is they who decide strategy and policy with no recourse to the public to change them e.g. they are not up for election every five years.
In Britain the party leaders are known before the election, the existing cabinet/shadow cabinets give an indication of who represents what brief in Government/opposition. These people, all of them, are directly accountable to their constituents and as MPs are up for election every five years.
The Lords are unelected, but like the MEP's they only scrutinize proposed policy/laws/regulations, they can recommend changes but ultimately the Commons (in Britain) the Commission (in EU) decides.
Our commons are elected the EU commission is not.. simples!
If you think the EU is undemocratic then we're not much better. Dacre & Murdoch basically decide who's gonna run the country it's a fecking shambles.
I come from an island myself and I have been living on islands for most of my life. I find that there's plenty of common traits in islanders. We are resilient, independent and stubborn. We're also opportunists (in Malta there's a say which state that the islands had never refused any free grain) and we tend to have this overflated ego as if the entire world rotate around us.
However the big differenceI find between Malta and the UK is their love for Europe (apart from the obvious ex size or military strength) . Ever since the dawn of time the Maltese always felt European.Rumours say that the locals rebelled against Carthage during the Punic wars, we fought against all odds in two great sieges even though Suleiman the magnificent was a far better leader then the pesky knights. When Italy converted to fascism we turned our back to them, preferring colonialism to independence even though the islands nearly always found a great friend and ally in Italy. Needless to say we paid a very heavy price in each occasion.
The UK share a very different history. Roman influence wasn't seen a defying moment in history but as an invasion. That influence ended up in betrayal as Roman armies pulled out to defend the dying empire leaving Brittania defenseless. After that nearly every single invasion from the Anglo Saxon invasion to the viking invasion right to the Norman invasion was pretty hostile and bloody. When the Tudors came to power, 'Christian Europe' betrayed England again by siding with Catherine of Aragon + the holy roman empire and against the then pious Henry Tudor. That paved the way to reformation, the constant fear of a crusade which occurred in Elizabeth's time and which shaped the UK renowned 'divide and conquer' tactic which made the UK the then most powerful nation in the world. From Elizabeth I till WW2 the UK will use that tactic magnificently pitting most big European countries against each other while it was busy adding lands elsewhere through colonialisation.
I honestly don't know if its good for the UK to be out of Europe. Some think its a good thing and to be fair the UK does seem to mellow with countries such as the US as compared to Europe. However, what I am certain about is that for Europe to evolve then it needs the UK out of Europe. We cant build a more integrated Europe (lets face it blocs of nations are the future) with someone who simply don't trust its neighbours.
I think if you stripped away the politics there would be a stronger case to be made for Brexit. There are advantages and disadvantages for both sides, but if the whole process could be completed without point scoring and politics getting in the way it is easy to envisage everyone being better off at the end of it. The problem is the fact that it is in the EU's interests to ensure Brexit doesnt work, and these existential factors trump economic interests (such as German factories wanting to sell cars to Brits.) I guess in a way that is perhaps the biggest faultline between the Remainers and the Brexiteers, it seems to me: that Brexiteers believe ultimately economic interests will prevail, whereas Remainers think politics will ensure the EU sticks to the position it has made perfectly clear right from the start. Of course that is a huge generalisation, but that's how it seems to me.
I think most Europeans would be genuinely shocked if they understood just how strong the UK's national sense of superiority is. It's not far behind the American version. I think people often misunderstand however and think people are joking or just playing around, when in fact a frightening number of Brits genuinely believe being British makes them far better than anyone else, including their European neighbours and the Americans.
Ive got a lot of time for Yanis Varoufakis.
Arent the French as bad? I always think in that way the two countries are quite similar - probably as a result of their similar colonial past.
I can't really explain it but our logic is more that something being french is more important than it being better.
There are similarities but they're not as bad I don't think. They're wildly arrogant about their culture/food etc, but they don't have the British mythology about being militarily unbeatable with all the unpleasant psychology that brings. They're also a lot more mixed from sharing borders with so many different countries. I actually do think Brits and the French share a huge similarity in many ways, but I'd definitely say the British have a bigger sense of national superiority, even though we hide it under self-deprecation much more.
It's like the British are happy to say lots of other countries are nicer/better than ours, but there's always the firm belief that the British people are somehow better, more independant, more resilient etc. Usually because some previous generation did something great, so obviously we would be the same.
I'd have said the French for the most part are extremely proud of being French but can also be quite self deprecating and critical of modern France. There are regional traits and the Parisians can come across as rude and abrasive, the Marseillaise as hot headed and arrogant etc but as a nation you're generally pretty laid back.
The Germans have a pretty big national ego as well but keep it well buttoned down for fear of what that has brought them in the past but beneath the cold shell there is a pretty solid certainty that in many ways they are better than the rest of Europe. To be fair when it comes to organisation, engineering and a fair few other areas they're probably right too.
The Brits are a fairly schizophrenic group. You're as likely to meet an overly polite, self deprecating Brit who will go out of their way to apologise for how we are perceived on the continent and pretty much anything else they can think we might be blamed for as you are the stereotypical xenophobic bigot complete with bulldog tattoo and an attitude that says Europe should still be on bended knee thanking us for saving them and should all learn to speak bloody English while they're about it. Unfortunately empty vessels make most noise so those of us who do speak other languages and try to fit in and be active participants in Europe tend to be drowned out by the pillocks who we must apologise profusely for once again, sorry about any jelly related traumas in your childhood while we're at it.
That definitely explains your cars.
I can't really agree with you on that. I don't really come across people expressing such views in a genuine way, or even a joking way. I mean I'll admit that I know plenty of people that are racist and little Englanders but but I don't know anyone with such an obscene sense of superiority based on nationality.
Precisely, the EU should be paying the UK to leave!
I don't think its expressed verbally in the way the Americans often do, but I see it a lot (often from people I'd never expect it from) when an issue comes up that actually requires them to think in that context. Brexit has revealed it starkly, again not in terms of people actually saying they are better, but in terms of their expectations of how other not British people will act or react or how Britain will act or react to certain things.
Sorry I know I'm not being very clear.
Remember folks, it' the evil EU holding us back. Easiest trade deals in human history...
This is relevant. I don't think the majority of British ever wanted a more integrated Europe, they just wanted an efficient free trade area. Maybe the six founders should have considered that a bit more when they accepted Britain's application to join.
The only wool being pulled is by the EU, they are about as undemocratic in structure and in process as you can get.
We can both have our views on the amount of democracy in the British system, but not I'm afraid compared with the EU. As your helpful article indicated the Council and Commissioners are unelected, the President is appointed and so are the Commissioners, and it is they who decide strategy and policy with no recourse to the public to change them e.g. they are not up for election every five years.
In Britain the party leaders are known before the election, the existing cabinet/shadow cabinets give an indication of who represents what brief in Government/opposition. These people, all of them, are directly accountable to their constituents and as MPs are up for election every five years.
The Lords are unelected, but like the MEP's they only scrutinize proposed policy/laws/regulations, they can recommend changes but ultimately the Commons (in Britain) the Commission (in EU) decides.
Our commons are elected the EU commission is not.. simples!
Totally disagree - the commons doesn't decide policy, the cabinet are appointed by the PM the same way as the Commission is appointed. The president is also elected by those members and the parliament . One per country currently 28 soon to be 27.
The farce that was the voting this week in the HoC on the Withdrawal Bill - let me take a guess the next vote result when the voting resumes will it be 316-297 majority of 19 votes or something very very similar, Brexiters can fool their own kind but that's all.
As for policy the manifestos they don't last very long do they, the last one I believe lasted 3 days. MEPs are equal to MPs they are voted by their constituents as well and should be accountable but they're not ,are they ,as their only job appears to make childish remarks in the EU parliament when they actually bother to turn up.
I think that applies to most countries, if you go to the UK, eat British Meat, in France, eat French meat and I bet it's the same in most countries - it's just to promote their own products.
I honestly can never remember a french person going to the UK and speak in french to anybody in a shop , hotel, restaurant and so on and expect the person they are talking to , to be able to understand what they are saying and if they don't understand then proceed to increase the volume which they may believe will assist the person they are talking to, to understand .
That would be really fecking funny though.
I'll try it next time I'm in the UK
By the way just heard May's got until the 4th December to stop the Cake and eat it routine.
Would love to see that.Hell no! You can keep your minted meat.
Totally agree
Also one thing I will never understand, if you'd like to buy billions of pounds of goods per year off us, you will have to pay for it.
My company gives huge discounts to regular customers not a penalty, they'd be bankrupt otherwise, shove your tariffs up yer hole we'll go somewhere else.
Haha, I'm not allowed to give blood in France because I lived in the UK when all the cows were mad.
Now it's just the people, hohoho
It's the Uk imposing the tariffs, the British people paying the British government
Germans definitely, our HR guy said something the other day tongue in cheek, so I asked if he was being racist.
"Of course I am, I'm German" came the reply
Whats is it tho with British people knocking their own sort all the time? I don't get it at all. Other Europeans don't do it and they are equally proud and some of them equally as natiaonalistic.
Right, so anything we buy from eu after brexit will have tariffs cos the uk want them? Ok
Yes, if a Brit buys a German car ,as a popular example, the car say costs £50k, the Uk customer pays £5k (10%) to the UK government for the privilege.
Of course it's the same the other way round.
Much better to have free following customs union etc.
Much prefer business model, discounts to large and regular customers.
Edit: my post should say flowing not following.
That's what happens anyway, the tariffs are nothing to do with the producers, sellers or buyers in the UK or the EU.
Pointless, charge me to spend billions. Do you get that?
We have a trade deficit to the EU of more than 60 billion per year but that's about 3 to 4% of the overall EU economy. 13% of our economy is to the EU. They're a bigger customer to us than we are to them.
Who is charging you?
Are you talking about the £8bn the Uk pay to the EU?
The £8bn/year the Uk think they are going to save in after they leave up to 2021 is forecast to cost them £65bn but this doesn't include the leaving bill nor the move to WTO tariffs .
The Uk don't want customs union so deal with the consequences, these are the consequences.
The £8bn will seem very cheap very quickly.
The biggest problem with Brexit is that no-one thought of the consequences, the Irish border's another one and that's just the start.
I know it's scaremongering.
True.