Brexit will sort that for us. The shops will all be empty because it will be too expensive to import the stuff that used to sit on the shelves. Or people wont have any money to buy anything anyway because their jobs will have moved to the continent to be inside the customs union.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
And laying off hundreds of thousands of people would somehow make housing more affordable?
It was a tongue in cheek comment - though I did see it as a real suggestion.
I think if you were to take it seriously the point would be that there would still be commerce going on, it just wouldnt be taking place in shops. People laid off as shopkeepers would have to become postmen or work in retail warehouses or whatever. The main point being that this is happening anyway, it would be accelerating a trend that is already occurring.
But yeah, I dont actually advocate forcibly closing all the shops.
I see you're resorting to personal insults, always happens with Brexiters when they lose an argument which is extremely often, sorry always. Like our friend Nick who deigned to make a brief visit to the thread, he'll lose yet another discussion and skulk away for a while. At least you stick it out.
Then we have those who pretend to have voted remain, just in case it does go all wrong and then continue to criticise all remainers. They think we don't know... keep it under your hat.
But I already told you I was an arrogant sod and name-calling matters not.
I pointed out that you missed out the most crucial point.
As for your darling Brexit secretary, if 16 million people suddenly decided to descend on his constituency at election time I think that may cause a problem, if would be more than that because no doubt a lot of Brexiters are not happy with his performance.
Next problem is that the election is in 2022 - Uk will be long gone with a really bad deal - it'll be too late
Further problem - there is more than one minister we want to get rid off, can't vote in two or more places at once.
Yes it was a hypothetical problem as I do indeed live in France, the more Davis makes a hash of it the better off we'll be on this side of Channel.
You keep agreeing with me, everyone knows Commissioners are (s)elected - saw your correction. Just as well they are not the masters and that legislation is passed by the Council and Parliament
Edit: apparently Davis is threatening to quit over the Damien Green porn scandal - well that was quick work
Last edited:
Who pretended to vote remain? Name names!
I would not like it to work that way yet rather like before we were in the EU we had Anzac kids coming here for their OE and working and going back home after a few years with savings.
Before the EU we had groups like gypsies (now under the travellers umbrella) doing agricultural work and older people on lower incomes and pensions doing less desirable jobs.
In my view if we use immigrants in this way it should enable them to take back savings.
Otherwise our population will exponentially continue to expand so fast that social problems will develop for those that see their state support not being sufficient and others jealous of other groups they see being helped by the state. The latter when they are struggling on low incomes and see other foreign groups appearing to be helped when they don't qualify.
We have 11m renters and also workers no longer on final salary pensions which to me equates to a coming political crisis at some point in the relatively near future.
England is already the most congested country in Europe (except little Malta).
Last edited:
No more than you do! I had thought that even if you held different views we could hold debates in a realistic manner, but there you go! Just returning with interest!
I do indeed, you've had the towel in once but retrieved it, so I'm ahead on points in those terms!
Indeed, if the cap fits..wear it!
I thought it was all crucial that's why I copied and pasted the "What the Commission Does" from the link you sent me, it certain highlights what enormous powers the unelected Commissioners have. I've never argued about what they do, only that they are unelected at any level.
The reference to UK Senior civil servants (introduced by @712) was simply to point out the similarities with Commissioners and that you seem to be arguing that having directly elected law makers is not important, where I consider it is. UK Civil Servants are probably less well known, or visible to the Public than Commissioners are in the EU, although certainly in the UK I suspect not many people could name either who the specific Senior Civil Servants are, or what they do; however such officials do/can strongly influence, if indirectly ( the Sir Humphrey types) laws and policy that they have been instructed to develop by the elected MP's, although they quite often make the outcomes seem like it was the elected members ideas. So in that sense the work of the EU Commissioners, it could be argued, is more visible to the public, but yet it is they way they are chosen rather than what they do, that is in my opinion undemocratic.
That's funny just a few post ago you were claiming something different!
By the way talking about missing things out what is your view of;
Paul the Wolf said: ↑
You've avoided all the points again but keep referring back to 15 to 20 years ago
I've not avoided any points you are the one ignoring reality.
I referred back to 1999 because you asked me!
Paul the Wolf said: ↑
Why do keep referring to 1999
Because that was a potential watershed time for the EU to clean house and reset its democratic credentials, just after the whole Santer Commission (of unelected Commissioners ) was forced to resign because of corruption, specifically around Mrs Cresson and her cronies activities and some incompetence in others that followed in trying to cover it up; however because of the gravy-train effect and the impending millennium celebrations it chose not to do so, in its own arrogance believing it could weather the storm and carry on regardless, which in fairness it has bumbled on... so far!
Having once worked for the EU and seen first hand its weaknesses in terms of democracy, in terms of preventing fraud, in terms of its tendency towards ''grandstanding' projects rather than projects which really do help people then in my mind and for many others the EU proved it cannot be reformed from within and hence sealed its own death warrant. Since then it has appointed idiots like Juncker and has gathered speed towards self destruction, on tracks it built itself, but has consistently failed to re-route. For a time the UK has acted as a 'brake', unintendedly I admit, but now the brake will be removed and the train can go full speed ahead on to the buffers... hopefully we won't still be on-board.
The one hope for the EU was perhaps with the 'pesky' British (opt outs, rebates etc.) all gone, Merkel and Macron, could through force of 'big stick wielding' change the direction away from the buffers, dragging, if necessary, the other states with them. However Macron still has a job to do in France and poor Angela in Germany is not looking much safer than Theresa in the UK, so things don't look to good, especially if the cliff edge scenario becomes a reality!
This is my sole reason for wanting the UK out of the EU, I recognise that amongst bexiteers I am probably in the minority, that many voted leave because of immigration and because previous UK governments had been too stupid to address the matter properly. I would love to see a truly democratic (and as far as humanly possible incorruptible) Europe, in terms of trade and security and environmental matters, and indeed people encouraged to move between the various member states, but with controls exercised by the host nation, not forced from above. This however I have come to realise is impossible whilst the EU survives in its present form, since its clear we (UK) cannot change its destination and date with the buffers, then we have to get off the train... whatever it costs!
Nothing to say on the above?
I've set out the strategic reasons why I believe the UK needs to leave the EU, how about you make you case for a strategic remaining?
Then we can discuss and forget all the childish name calling, especially since we are both over 50?
That's Germany though, it is what Germans are good at. I wouldn't trust the dopes in local authorities over here to make those sensible decisions. The danger is that you end up with like some of them mess you see in the Irish countryside where they basically let anyone build whatever they want.
Would still rather live in Ireland atm. Such chilled people.
From Wikipedia, Netherlands and Belgium have more density, but anyway. Right now I am in Canada, by choice as I am a privileged european citizen. After almost 2 years I have my place (rent), car, starting my professional career and the most important, I am developing personal relationships of any kind. I am DEFINITELY adding at the society and you are telling me that in 3/5 years I should leave with your policiy? because I might have health problems?
Then why the immigrant would pay as much taxes than a local if it will most likely not make as much use of it? because most of the taxes that you pay is for healthcare (a 20/30 years old is less likely to use it, feck I barely got sick of any kind in the last 10 years, let alone use health care system) and for retirement pensions. Why those immigrants should pay as much taxes? For the privilege of being exploited in shit jobs (with the kind of workers you propose)?
In order to save, do you know in which conditions they have to live with the shit salary they are earning? I have been there because I lived in 8 different countries, I worked legally and illegally. Always by choice. They have no choice. I lived in piled up houses with 3 rooms 1 bathroom and kitchen with 15-20 people in it I even been in jail and put in a plane for working illegally, again by choice. I can't imagine the drama of spending thousands and risking life to enter to a country, shit living conditions finding a job to make a living, scraping every cent to send to their family, fighting for each small improvement and suddenly a decision made by entitled people from their ivory tower that their only merit is that they were born in a place by luck makes them go back home. I sort of understand entry filters, but once you are inside and you contribute i simply say: "now you are old and we broke your back doing jobs we don't want to do and you are useless, get the feck out and don't dare to ask for the taxes that you paid".
Do you really think that people that comes to the "1st world countries" do that because of savings? they or fleeing from a war zone or they want a FUTURE and 5/7 years is not a future. the few savings that they earn, barely cover the money they spend going in the country and certainly not covers the risks. They are doing that not even for themselves but for their kids, that if you are a normal person living in UK with all that second, third and fourth generations, that kids, now they are your friends.
You are asking having people that they will barely save money with the cost of coming and scrapping from shit salaries, you are asking that they live in shit conditions, away form their society, friends and usually from their families, you are asking them to work shit jobs that people like you don't want to do and you take them away basically what they are looking for: FUTURE
And you are asking that in WHICH RIGHT as a human being?
Last edited:
Long-term we'll probably see a lot of closures anyway with a gradual transition to universal income.
I’m sure you are enjoying yourself picking apart his rubbish @Paul the Wolf but maybe consider doing it via PM as it’s clogging a lot of the thread and making browsing difficult for mobile users like myself as from what I can see everyone else has pretty much ignored him.
Brexits finest meet up with steve 'i want to burn society to the ground' bannon.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...mogg-held-meeting-with-steve-bannon-in-london
brexiteers have been utterly conned
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...mogg-held-meeting-with-steve-bannon-in-london
brexiteers have been utterly conned
I think he's made mincemeat of Paul as far as EU democracy as a stand-alone subject goes, but thanks for your short post.
The name Jacob Rees-Mogg doing an admirable job of highlighting its owner's cuntishness long before you know anything about them.
Last edited:
Ditto. When I moved down to London I had Greg Hands, Hammersmith & Fulham Tory. We got gerrymandered to Hamm/Shep Bush and majority swung to Labour. I voted for Andy Slaughter though. He's a local guy and a good constituency MP.
Was weird ultimately voting for Corbyn, which was anathema, but as a local MP he is excellent. Paul, dilemmas Paul.
UKIP innit.
Been a while, hope all's well Nick.
The stamp duty cut on sub £300k properties won't work. Will raise prices. I dunno with landlords tbh. Ours always seemed to be overseas cheapskates.
On the one hand, it's just that busy time of year; on the other, i'm just a little more selective with my interactions in the CE right now. The majority of posters are, mostly, settled as concrete in their positions (Brexit-wise at least), and circular discussions loaded with the same old invective carry little interest. I might pop by if anything is actually confirmed but otherwise...
I wouldn't have minded a Canadian trade deal a few week ago mind you. I ordered in some Christmas decorations from Banff you see, and while i expected to pay a degree of duty the £8 handling fee to the Royal Mail was less welcome. lol
And yeah, the stamp duty change might not be as advertised by Mr Hammond. Although in London and the home counties it's just one ingredient of many, what with the dichotomy of high demand but reduced buying power. An apartment i've been tracking dropped £20,000 off the asking price not long ago.
Last edited:
That may be so and I haven’t read any of it so can’t really comment because I started to ignore his posts after the absolute crap he was coming up with about Brexit etc.
Short and sweet always best
Not quite sure how you make that one out, he keeps misquoting and telling falsehoods but we could all do that if we wanted to.I won't resort to that and furthermore he keeps mixing me up with you and quoting streams of your quotes in mine.
Most of my posts have been short throughout the thread unfortunately this poster keeps quoting other peoples texts and misquoting mine which has forced me to show where he is lying. I will take into consideration your point and will keep my posts shorter but I'm not PM' ing him
Maybe he is getting paid. Maybe you are getting paid? How much do you make an hour posting here?
/S
Not enough
How has he made mincemeat of Paul when his argument is inherently wrong? I appreciate that we can be of different opinion, but the facts are there, explained in about 50 different ways throughout this thread, and his claims are either invented or badly misrepresenting what actually happens.
@I Believe
To keep matters short and stop making the posts too large, let's clarify a few points as you keep repeating things that are not true.
All you have to do is quote the few quotes where I have stated what you claim I have stated:
The first is the least important but nevertheless as a point of order:
1. Where I called you a name
2. Where I said the the EU Commissioners are elected
3. Where I said the Council and the EU Parliament didn't pass legislation
Very short and sweet and yes it was 712 (not me) who introduced civil servants into the debate and yes the Commissioners are similar to senior civil servants, the difference being that the Commission change every 5 years and are appointed by the Heads of State, not lifetime serving civil servants no one can get rid of.
Furthermore who do you think is really doing the Brexit negotiations, a team of civil servants, Davis just pops in to Brussels, gets briefed , usually misunderstands and makes some inane speech, he's just a puppet.
To keep matters short and stop making the posts too large, let's clarify a few points as you keep repeating things that are not true.
All you have to do is quote the few quotes where I have stated what you claim I have stated:
The first is the least important but nevertheless as a point of order:
1. Where I called you a name
2. Where I said the the EU Commissioners are elected
3. Where I said the Council and the EU Parliament didn't pass legislation
Very short and sweet and yes it was 712 (not me) who introduced civil servants into the debate and yes the Commissioners are similar to senior civil servants, the difference being that the Commission change every 5 years and are appointed by the Heads of State, not lifetime serving civil servants no one can get rid of.
Furthermore who do you think is really doing the Brexit negotiations, a team of civil servants, Davis just pops in to Brussels, gets briefed , usually misunderstands and makes some inane speech, he's just a puppet.
Hardly a surprise that housing is a problem when wages have barely moved for decades yet house prices have tripled or more. A friend bought her house in Rotherham for 30k back in the 2000's, it's now worth about 120-150k. Buy to rent is fecking first time buyers, but we can't fix it without a resultant crash in house prices and a ton of negative equity for millions. Not sure how we get around it really.
From a catalan article:
Some NHS data
From the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC)
-89% less of Nurses and Miwifes that comes from UE post referendum
-11% more of nurses and midwifes that quits since the referndum compared than before
-40.000 nurses jobs vacant
-3.500 midwife jobs vacant
Nurses coming before vs nurses coming post referendum
Spain 1966/104
Romania 1604/216
Italy 1325/187
Poland 305/34
General Medical Council
- 67% more doctors (overall) quitting in 2016 compared with 2015
From the Health department Ministery (I don´t know how is called precisely in UK)
- More than 10.000 between Doctors, Nurses and sanitary personnel left since the referendum
Also the article says with several experts:
-The investment grows 1% when the demand of service grows 4%
-5 years ago, it was considered an investment of 33k Millions. Downing street would cover 11k millions the rest through cuts
-Shortage of personnel is substituted by nursing agencies that they are more expensive, short term, not familiar with the enviroment, permanent personnel trust them till a certain extend as there are life decisionmaking what it makes less rest time inside the shift and less quality
-Recommended ratio of 8 patients per nurse is utopic. More than 90% of nurses have more (Royal College of Nursing)
You think UK can´t generate resources and quality personnel short term? Special visas that gives assurance to the takers?
Some NHS data
From the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC)
-89% less of Nurses and Miwifes that comes from UE post referendum
-11% more of nurses and midwifes that quits since the referndum compared than before
-40.000 nurses jobs vacant
-3.500 midwife jobs vacant
Nurses coming before vs nurses coming post referendum
Spain 1966/104
Romania 1604/216
Italy 1325/187
Poland 305/34
General Medical Council
- 67% more doctors (overall) quitting in 2016 compared with 2015
From the Health department Ministery (I don´t know how is called precisely in UK)
- More than 10.000 between Doctors, Nurses and sanitary personnel left since the referendum
Also the article says with several experts:
-The investment grows 1% when the demand of service grows 4%
-5 years ago, it was considered an investment of 33k Millions. Downing street would cover 11k millions the rest through cuts
-Shortage of personnel is substituted by nursing agencies that they are more expensive, short term, not familiar with the enviroment, permanent personnel trust them till a certain extend as there are life decisionmaking what it makes less rest time inside the shift and less quality
-Recommended ratio of 8 patients per nurse is utopic. More than 90% of nurses have more (Royal College of Nursing)
You think UK can´t generate resources and quality personnel short term? Special visas that gives assurance to the takers?
Negative equity won't fix it... because then people won't (can't sell as the mortgage companies won't authorise)...
No exactly, plus you can't really help millions of first time buyers by totally fecking millions of home owners. It's going to have to be a gradual change, but they do really need to stop more house stock being bought up for buy to let.
Arguably.... though perhaps the gradual change is a move towards that European model where renting is the norm and more protection exists for tennents... Then we probably need more buy to rent... not am easy equation to solve
That sounds unlikely unless the prices in South Yorkshire have risen at a quicker rate than other areas of Yorkshire I'm familiar with. It's nearer to doubling since circa 200 or slightly more than doubling in West/East Yorkshire and most house prices haven't gone up in the last 10 years either and are only just getting to pre-credit crunch levels.
I might be mixing the years up slightly, but she's around 40 and bought the house in her early 20's so it can't be far off.
See below
1) I didn't say you have, just you've have made crass remarks about being 'stupid', 'anyone with intelligence', etc. these are childish jibes that add nothing to your argument but are simply intended to incite or upset, which from my experience when someone resorts to this they are losing the argument. I have to admit at times I've returned the favour in-kind, 'spec savers' comments etc. but I am just suggesting we desist from such language.
2) You've never said that, as far as I recall, its simply you refuse to except that the law makers in the UK Parliament are elected, where as law makers in the EU Commission are not. If that is not the case and you do now accept the difference, then is the time to clarify!
3) Again as far as I can recall you never said this, but again you seem to refuse to accept that whilst the EU parliament is the elected by the public element, they do not instigate new laws, but carry out broadly the same role as our House Lords, they scrutinize, they offer amendments, on matters sent to them from the commission, but the MEPs cannot prevent the passage, ultimately of a new EU Law or Regulation. As @712 stipulated both systems have democratic elements, but the British/UK system is better and is seen to be better because its the Elected representatives making the running on instigating new laws.
Thank you yes, you are on more solid ground here (in my view) for arguing levels of relative democracy between systems and about dismissal; Commissioners will change (although still unelected by the general populace of the EU) and its still (in my view), in many cases 'jobs for the boys' when Commissioners are nominated by heads of state, but as for Senior Civil Servants in the UK, I'm not even sure are they ever dismissed? As its inferred in terms of jobs for life, "they die with their boots on"
I suspect both Davis and Barnier are both card board cut-outs, but it could be argued both in their own way doing a reasonable job of batting the ball backwards and forwards, bluff and double bluff. IMO the main decisions are being made/will be made at Head of State levels and the actual details are being poured over by the minions in both Brussels and London, to try to ensure as much clarity as possible.
Although I feel the UK will finally buy its way out of the EU and into a trade deal with the EU, with more or less what it wanted, the relative weakness of both May and Merkel in their own countries and the untried Macron as a super heavyweight statesman still to be tested, then the unthinkable may happen and the cliff edge becomes a reality... the law of unintended consequences strikes again?
It looks like a number of Irish are facing the same concerns as the English, 55 pages of comment with things like,
'Irish can no longer even get labourers jobs'
'Irish are homeless and accommodation being given to asylum seekers'
'Thank God for the Brits and Brexit'
'We need Irexit'
http://www.politics.ie/forum/curren...ts-new-boost-asylum-seekers-can-now-work.html
'Irish can no longer even get labourers jobs'
'Irish are homeless and accommodation being given to asylum seekers'
'Thank God for the Brits and Brexit'
'We need Irexit'
http://www.politics.ie/forum/curren...ts-new-boost-asylum-seekers-can-now-work.html
Last edited:
People are such fecking idiots.
In fairness there's also:
"How is allowing people to work a 'sham' from 'the left'?"
"Can't see asylum seekers being an issue in the labour market.
Integration is a bigger issue though."
"Perhaps working asylum seekers can be taken out of direct provision and pay their own way, reducing costs for the State."
"Exactly! Who could possibly argue that a working asylum seeker is somehow a worse proposition than a non-working one?
Apart from the 'dey tuk oor jobs' brigade of course."
Within the first 8 responses. Not that @The Outsider would quote them...
That pro trump botnet just got retasked.