Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Christ no wonder those of us in favour of remain lost the argument if this is the best we can do. On that basis then in the UK we should never have a change of government unless 2/3rds were in favour of a change from the status quo. For goodness sake I do despair. And with that I will leave the floor otherwise I will sadly get more insulting which I have no desire to do. Apologies to one and all if I have offended.
You know that not what I was saying. Joining or leaving the EU is a once in a generation event not something that comes about every 5 years like a new Government.

By the way I don't think it would take long to get a 2/3 majority asking to change the music from the Status Quo.
 
To be fair, though, elections happen every few years; a decision like this is expected to last generations. I don't agree with 2/3rd referendums because I think if you need to impose that on a referendum it's inherently flawed in the first place, but it's quite clearly very different to an election which occurs on a regular cycle every few years.
It was/is.
 
In this case I'd say it was, yeah. Mainly because the terms of voting to leave were so ill-defined.

The fact that leave needed to be defined tells you that it wasn't a question compatible with a referendum. And that's without even taking into account the fact that when you actually define what leave means, you have to wonder if people are actually able to understand that meaning. For example who actually has a complete understanding of the difference between full single market, CETA and EFTA. Also I have seen an awful lot of people who think that the Human Right rules come from the EU when they come from the Council of Europe, which weirdly enough is completely ignored by the mass.

The reality is that the question is too complex for the vast majority even the people who knows a lot, don't know and understand everything, which is why this type of problems are supposed to be dealt by parliamentary commissions who are supposed to present their work to MPs who will base their vote on them.
 
In this case I'd say it was, yeah. Mainly because the terms of voting to leave were so ill-defined.
Not only that it was so ill-defined but that it had such a high probability to impact negatively on every aspect the UK and the wider European Union.
 
At the end of the day if you and your party calls a referendum for purely political purposes; don't be surprised if anarchy ensues.
 
I don't mean to come over as nasty, I'm very friendly really, believe it or not. I have an allergic reaction to liars. Frustration at why people can't see they're being conned. And I have zero sympathy with racists or xenophobes.

Throughout this thread I'm afraid you've rarely come across as anything other than unpleasantly arrogant, narrow minded and condescending. A walking and sneering distillation of much that is wrong within the remain camp that most of us here are part of. Your post above is a perfect example but I doubt your frightening lack of self awareness will ever allow you to recognise just how toxic your views of other people can be.
 
Johnson yes. With Mogg though I am not so sure. Certainly because of his background he would lose a number of votes. Then again he would capture many. In particular I would respectfully suggest that his view on scrapping the commitment to 0.7% of GDP to overseas aid would win him quite a number from all political colours. Charity begins at home is awfully persuasive.

True. But this insistence on pretending it's 1937 renders him alien like to the vast majority north of Watford. It's all a complete affectation and that is what will do for him and his party if he leads.
 
Throughout this thread I'm afraid you've rarely come across as anything other than unpleasantly arrogant, narrow minded and condescending. A walking and sneering distillation of much that is wrong within the remain camp that most of us here are part of. Your post above is a perfect example but I doubt your frightening lack of self awareness will ever allow you to recognise just how toxic your views of other people can be.

Thus according to you I should tolerate and believe liars, be content that people are being conned and be sympathetic to racists and xenophobes. Then you criticise my posts. Self-awareness, ok.

Edit: I remember you, just looked at a few of your posts, excellent self-awareness and well done on not being condescending. Remember not to sneer.
 
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Throughout this thread I'm afraid you've rarely come across as anything other than unpleasantly arrogant, narrow minded and condescending. A walking and sneering distillation of much that is wrong within the remain camp that most of us here are part of. Your post above is a perfect example but I doubt your frightening lack of self awareness will ever allow you to recognise just how toxic your views of other people can be.

You dont think the leave campaign was a con?
 
I don't really follow this Brexit malarky but I've been trying to find out what is going on from news articles for 10 mins and I can't figure it out.

Are we still leaving or what? Are we staying in the common market?
 
Thus according to you I should tolerate and believe liars, be content that people are being conned and be sympathetic to racists and xenophobes. Then you criticise my posts. Self-awareness, ok.

Edit: I remember you, just looked at a few of your posts, excellent self-awareness and well done on not being condescending. Remember not to sneer.

How long you been voting Tory fella?
 
Throughout this thread I'm afraid you've rarely come across as anything other than unpleasantly arrogant, narrow minded and condescending. A walking and sneering distillation of much that is wrong within the remain camp that most of us here are part of. Your post above is a perfect example but I doubt your frightening lack of self awareness will ever allow you to recognise just how toxic your views of other people can be.

That isn't at all how Paul has come across to me He has come across as a highly intelligent person who is dismayed that we have taken such an obviously disasterous path. He obviously cares deeply about the country and its people.
 
I don't really follow this Brexit malarky but I've been trying to find out what is going on from news articles for 10 mins and I can't figure it out.

Are we still leaving or what? Are we staying in the common market?
The truth is nobody knows. We have to wait until the end of the process to know what the hell is going on.
 
Sorry Paul but you are just coming over as nasty. As someone born in the UK even if no longer resident what the heck did we do to you?....... Whatever it was must have been bad.

Cor blimey some real snowflakes on here. As far as I can see Paul is just being realistic and has long been stating that the EU wouldn’t be bowing down to the UK governments every demand despite the protestations of a few on here that have gone missing.
 
At the end of the day if you and your party calls a referendum for purely political purposes; don't be surprised if anarchy ensues.
Hmm but wasn't just called due to Tories clamoring for it from the backbenches though was it? That was happening for years.

UKIP won 4m votes, and the momentum was growing. Who's to say it wouldn't have all spiralled out of control and gone mainstream if all the voices were ignored?
 
Throughout this thread I'm afraid you've rarely come across as anything other than unpleasantly arrogant, narrow minded and condescending. A walking and sneering distillation of much that is wrong within the remain camp that most of us here are part of. Your post above is a perfect example but I doubt your frightening lack of self awareness will ever allow you to recognise just how toxic your views of other people can be.
I would recommend Panadol.
 
Hmm but wasn't just called due to Tories clamoring for it from the backbenches though was it?

It more or less was. Cameron threw them what he thought was just a bone to keep them in line.
 
Pretty amazing capitulation by May. This whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
 
Hmm but wasn't just called due to Tories clamoring for it from the backbenches though was it? That was happening for years.

UKIP won 4m votes, and the momentum was growing. Who's to say it wouldn't have all spiralled out of control and gone mainstream if all the voices were ignored?

The UKIP vote was growing and it should’ve been allowed to run its natural course. Their arguments could’ve eventually been exposed or they could’ve been forced to provide numerous manifesto based on facts and won an election in the future. But Cameron cut the natural path short and meant we had the farce of a referendum.

The whole thing is infuriating and just highlights the shambolic performances of the political parties in this country over 30+ years.

The worrying thing is this won’t be learnt from, as the loudest mouth pieces on either side have been given the biggest platform during this debate. I dread to think where it is heading
 
Amazing outcome in the early hours of today. Still getting my head around it. Northern Ireland citizens who have Irish passports will retain all their rights as EU citizens. The British gov have made guarantees ruling out any kind of hard Irish Border. They have signed up to no border infrastructure, and in regulatory terms its as-you-were guaranteed across this island. And they have explained how that's going to happen - its because the same regulatory rules will apply on both sides of the border. "(...in the absence of agreed solutions) the UK will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement". Now or in the future! Looks like not just NI alignment with the rules of both these bodies, but overall UK alignment, in perpetuity, has been made the safety net, the fallback position. Talk about tying your hands! I have read the full document three times now, and I am still in dry mouthed shock. What did the DUP achieve by holding it up?

Is this agent May spiking the Brexit guns while posturing on the deck? These guarantees are unilateral, it's like, this is what the UK will do, and nothing about what Ireland will do or what the EU will do. Anyhow a 'hard' Brexit now seems to be written out of the script, not matter what the outcome of negotiations. 'No deal' also seems to be written out of the script. They move on to Phase Two in what seems a fairly weak position having effectively caved in on all fronts to the EU. The DUP have been shafted and Nigel PUKIP is livid. At the end of this process what will be left of Brexit? Or is there some other interpretation possible?
 
Ok so as a staunch remainder objectively looking for a positive. Is it possible situation whereby we take the “Norway” route of being in the single market but with trade tariffs - a clearly “worse off” scenario as far as the relationship with our largest trading block goes - balanced by our new ability to strike individual trade deals with other countries around the world. So potentially acting as a conduit for trade between America/China/Australia ect and other EU countries?
 
Swapping a slightly stroppy marriage for a messy divorce that involves paying to get fecked up the arse by the EU while having to wear a gimp mask. Negotiations continue over what the safe word should be.

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Negotiations have progressed well. May has agreed to carry on wearing the gimp mask, they have mutually agreed that a safe word isn't needed as the UK will take whatever the EU gives but the UK have been granted a major concession by the EU agreeing to use lube occasionaly.
 
Hmm but wasn't just called due to Tories clamoring for it from the backbenches though was it? That was happening for years.

UKIP won 4m votes, and the momentum was growing. Who's to say it wouldn't have all spiralled out of control and gone mainstream if all the voices were ignored?

If it had gone mainstream then yeah it would have been a fair enough call. The voices from the Tory backbenches have always been there so again it was largely irrelevant.

No it was a calculated gamble from Cameron in order to stop UKIP siphoning off votes from the Tories and leading to Labour wins. Largely political.
 
Ok so as a staunch remainder objectively looking for a positive. Is it possible situation whereby we take the “Norway” route of being in the single market but with trade tariffs - a clearly “worse off” scenario as far as the relationship with our largest trading block goes - balanced by our new ability to strike individual trade deals with other countries around the world. So potentially acting as a conduit for trade between America/China/Australia ect and other EU countries?

I would also like to know the answer to these questions. Also I’ve seen people state Norway only take 21% of the EU laws. If this is the case, it’s not just business as usual is it?
 
Amazing outcome in the early hours of today. Still getting my head around it. Northern Ireland citizens who have Irish passports will retain all their rights as EU citizens. The British gov have made guarantees ruling out any kind of hard Irish Border. They have signed up to no border infrastructure, and in regulatory terms its as-you-were guaranteed across this island. And they have explained how that's going to happen - its because the same regulatory rules will apply on both sides of the border. "(...in the absence of agreed solutions) the UK will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement". Now or in the future! Looks like not just NI alignment with the rules of both these bodies, but overall UK alignment, in perpetuity, has been made the safety net, the fallback position. Talk about tying your hands! I have read the full document three times now, and I am still in dry mouthed shock. What did the DUP achieve by holding it up?

Is this agent May spiking the Brexit guns while posturing on the deck? These guarantees are unilateral, it's like, this is what the UK will do, and nothing about what Ireland will do or what the EU will do. Anyhow a 'hard' Brexit now seems to be written out of the script, not matter what the outcome of negotiations. 'No deal' also seems to be written out of the script. They move on to Phase Two in what seems a fairly weak position having effectively caved in on all fronts to the EU. The DUP have been shafted and Nigel PUKIP is livid. At the end of this process what will be left of Brexit? Or is there some other interpretation possible?
The DUP will be calling this a victory. Hard brexit, soft brexit, all they really care about is the union and they’ve got their guarantee from May that NI won’t be cut off from the rest of the UK.
 
Ok so as a staunch remainder objectively looking for a positive. Is it possible situation whereby we take the “Norway” route of being in the single market but with trade tariffs - a clearly “worse off” scenario as far as the relationship with our largest trading block goes - balanced by our new ability to strike individual trade deals with other countries around the world. So potentially acting as a conduit for trade between America/China/Australia ect and other EU countries?

If you have tariffs, you are not in the single market. And the last question is strange, EU countries don't need a conduit to trade with the countries mentioned and those trades will always have to comply with the EUCU and single market laws.
 
If you have tariffs, you are not in the single market. And the last question is strange, EU countries don't need a conduit to trade with the countries mentioned and those trades will always have to comply with the EUCU and single market laws.

What about bespoke trade deals with high regulation countries that satisfy the EU, Canada, New Zealand and the likes?
 
You dont think the leave campaign was a con?

Not sure what that has to do with my observations on Paul? I voted remain but have much sympathy for the many who have voted leave and did so in good faith believing that it would benefit them. Paul largely posts with utter contempt for leave voters branding them to a man as thick, racist xenophobes who deserve what’s coming to them because they’re stupid. There’s a leave voter equivalent of course. For me the lasting legacy of this referendum, whatever happens, is that this clear contempt that hardliners on either side have for each other has exposed an enormous divide in this country that will take at least a generation to bridge if at all.
 
Not sure what that has to do with my observations on Paul? I voted remain but have much sympathy for the many who have voted leave and did so in good faith believing that it would benefit them. Paul largely posts with utter contempt for leave voters branding them to a man as thick, racist xenophobes who deserve what’s coming to them because they’re stupid. There’s a leave voter equivalent of course. For me the lasting legacy of this referendum, whatever happens, is that this clear contempt that hardliners on either side have for each other has exposed an enormous divide in this country that will take at least a generation to bridge if at all.
Theres a good book on this very subject called The Road To Somewhere.