1) Cannot happen.
2) Politically diffucult. Would need massive change in government attitude and emergence of real leadership.
3) Looking likely.
Things are grim.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
2) Politically diffucult. Would need massive change in government attitude and emergence of real leadership.
3) Looking likely.
Things are grim.
Agreed.
The major point is whether the government realise that the Transition period is a long way from being agreed and it won't be agreed without NI being resolved.
Despite all their bravado that the EU need the UK more, the UK government are acting as if the Transition period is a done deal. They may discover that's far from the case next week.
Following on from that the EU will be as ready as possible for no deal next March, the UK will not.
Ironic really, considering how many times they parroted the ‘Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed’ line.
I actually don’t think they’re as stupid as they’re appearing, I’m coming around to the idea that there’s a very deliberate hard Brexit strategy underway. When you follow the money, an awful lot of the people around Leave are set to make out like bandits from a hard crash.
The EU is already prepping for no deal. The hope is that the citizens issue can be resolved regardless of that.
At a meeting in Monday, some of our colleagues from London said serious money has started betting on a no deal brexit. Of course they can't name names but when that happens, you know shit has hit the fan. These people don't lose money.
Up until last month, my team leader was confident of a deal. Guess even he knows feck all.
The referendum and subsequently Brexit was started to keep the Tory party in power. To regain the UKIP vote and appeal to Labour voters who have nationalistic tendencies etc and keep their core voters. That has worked well for them so you could say they're not stupid that way.
Unlike Stanley who's trying to blame whoever voted for Cameron in 2015 , the people who voted in the referendum are to blame, they were just conned by the Brexit crew. The Tories banked on the stupidity and xenophobic nature of the electorate.
To think that the EU would cave in to their demands was stupid.
The main instigators of Brexit will all disappear when it all goes wrong but they're not going to lose out like the British public will. The Tories will then blame the people because it was their will.
Yeah. Cameron is a self serving cnut but that referendum would have happened either way. The problem is that the referendum was awfully worded and the debate around it was all wrong.
Even though Miliband said he wouldn't offer one, I think successive governments, (Labour or Tory) would have been under pressure to give one .
Even though Miliband said he wouldn't offer one, I think successive governments, (Labour or Tory) would have been under pressure to give one .
Millions of people have been against the EU and it’s workings for a lot longer than the past 3-4 years. To suggest everyone was conned or are too thick to have an opinion is astoundingly arrogant, extremely unhelpful towards any debate and has probably driven many people in the opposite direction.
Unfortunately this is the default position for the vast majority of media and MP’s who voted remain. It’s no surprise we are where we are
So, it looks like the same Russian naughtiness that got Trump elected may also have been in play to push brexit through too, with Aaron banks and Nigel farage the go between for the Russians. Sick of wankers like that making dirty deals to further their own greed or warped interests ahead of the needs of a country. There should be a Mueller type leading an investigation on this side of the pond too
In true British style they'd appoint a former judge, it'd take 10 years, and they'd just end up classifying anything politically dangerous anyway.
Said the same last week. But it seems our laws are weaker.
Irrespective of outside influence, there were/are some serious underlying causes of the Brexit vote that need to be addressed but wont.
Look at this snake.
I have just written to my local MP
Sir,
You will be aware of the significant aerospace presence in Farnborough and the North East region of Hampshire in general. I run a precision engineering company in the region employing some 40 people. In recent years we have seen significant growth with T/O going from £2.2m in 2011 to £4.5m last year. We manufacture and supply parts predominantly to the aerospace sector and in particular Airbus which accounts for 67% of our turnover. This has been the driver to our growth and we are currently investing in more technology/capacity and would fully anticipate the creation of further jobs.
So clearly todays warning from the COO of Airbus is more than a little disconcerting.
Airbus directly employ 14,000 people in the UK. The wider supply chain – of which we are a part- provides stable jobs for some 117,000 people. We manufacture wings in the UK which is our particular area of expertise. However, this business has long been coveted by the Germans and the French – who are more than able to step up to the plate. Even more worrying is the Chinese, who now manufacture the wings for the A320. They have been extremely agressive touting for more business in recent times.
For a global organisations like Airbus moving entire production facilities is not as daunting as many may think. They are looking 10, 20, 30 years ahead and are more than prepared to make the changes if the economic climate suggests that to be the best course of action.
The UK frittered away its own ability to influence decisions when it sold our 25% stake in Airbus.
Now we have no product of our own in the commercial airliner market - a far cry from being world leaders in the late 20th century.
If Airbus start to pull out of the UK it will be a total disaster. Company’s like mine will not be able to backfill fast enough – even if there was other work to backfill with. We would close and most people here would have difficulty finding work of a similar quality.
Airbus are stating that they are wholly unhappy with the uncertainty regarding the eventual trade deal with the EU and the implications of no customs union. They put out a serious warning to their employees against Brexit before the referendum.
If you ask me, the call of the East is a potent incentive to an organisation like Airbus.
If there is a hidden agenda to move to things that way in the longer term then the UK Government should be pulling out all the stops not to help that along by providing Airbus with ready-made excuses like a hard Brexit with no deal on customs.
I would like to hope that for the benefit of all my employees here, along with the many thousand in this region and, the country as a whole, that you would raise some serious concerns regarding this situation and implore the government to act in the interest of the aerospace industry in the UK.
I think dismissing the Airbus COO’s comments as ‘scare-mongering’ is a risk we take at our peril.
Regards
**************************
Sir,
You will be aware of the significant aerospace presence in Farnborough and the North East region of Hampshire in general. I run a precision engineering company in the region employing some 40 people. In recent years we have seen significant growth with T/O going from £2.2m in 2011 to £4.5m last year. We manufacture and supply parts predominantly to the aerospace sector and in particular Airbus which accounts for 67% of our turnover. This has been the driver to our growth and we are currently investing in more technology/capacity and would fully anticipate the creation of further jobs.
So clearly todays warning from the COO of Airbus is more than a little disconcerting.
Airbus directly employ 14,000 people in the UK. The wider supply chain – of which we are a part- provides stable jobs for some 117,000 people. We manufacture wings in the UK which is our particular area of expertise. However, this business has long been coveted by the Germans and the French – who are more than able to step up to the plate. Even more worrying is the Chinese, who now manufacture the wings for the A320. They have been extremely agressive touting for more business in recent times.
For a global organisations like Airbus moving entire production facilities is not as daunting as many may think. They are looking 10, 20, 30 years ahead and are more than prepared to make the changes if the economic climate suggests that to be the best course of action.
The UK frittered away its own ability to influence decisions when it sold our 25% stake in Airbus.
Now we have no product of our own in the commercial airliner market - a far cry from being world leaders in the late 20th century.
If Airbus start to pull out of the UK it will be a total disaster. Company’s like mine will not be able to backfill fast enough – even if there was other work to backfill with. We would close and most people here would have difficulty finding work of a similar quality.
Airbus are stating that they are wholly unhappy with the uncertainty regarding the eventual trade deal with the EU and the implications of no customs union. They put out a serious warning to their employees against Brexit before the referendum.
If you ask me, the call of the East is a potent incentive to an organisation like Airbus.
If there is a hidden agenda to move to things that way in the longer term then the UK Government should be pulling out all the stops not to help that along by providing Airbus with ready-made excuses like a hard Brexit with no deal on customs.
I would like to hope that for the benefit of all my employees here, along with the many thousand in this region and, the country as a whole, that you would raise some serious concerns regarding this situation and implore the government to act in the interest of the aerospace industry in the UK.
I think dismissing the Airbus COO’s comments as ‘scare-mongering’ is a risk we take at our peril.
Regards
**************************
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@Honest John who is your MP?
Ranil Jayawardena - North Hants.
That's just where I work.
My home MP is Caroline Nokes.
Good luck. Hope your company remains safe.
Thanks. Me too.
I dont know what is worse - him admitting Brexit was all a sham or him telling us everything will be rosy.
Yes some people have been against the EU for many years. Farage has been trying to do himself out of a job for the best part of 20 years by telling lie after lie.
Unfortunately for him he succeeded because he never thought enough of the UK electorate would be daft enough to actually believe him. Who the hell voted for UKIP to represent them in the EU, they hardly ever went and stole their salaries and pensions.
It suited the UK government to have a scapegoat for all the problems they have caused especially since 2010.
I have no problem with people having a different opinion. What is idiotic is to believe the lies. If leaving the EU would have even a slim chance of making ones life better then OK.
To believe that the UK is more democratic, that immigrants are not needed, that immigrants are all living off the state, that the government couldn't control immigration including EU immigrants, that the EU impose all the laws and that the UK don't have control of their borders is idiotic.
As I've said there are only those limited choices as there has always been. Brexiters say out is out which means no deal. No deal means catastrophe for the UK, they can't keep any of the bits they like.
Sorry but imo anyone who votes for their lives to be considerably, not a little or short-term, significantly worse off then they are an idiot.
The debate effectively ended two years ago, Brexiters were called idiots from about six months to a year before the referendum, not years ago.
The Uk is in the situation now because nobody to could bothered to find out what really goes on. Ignorance is no excuse whatsoever.
Two years down the line and the same people still believe the same nonsense.
In the event of a no deal there's not a 50% chance the Uk will be OK, there's not a 10% chance, there is 0%. It is not possible.
Who else is to blame for giving you the ref, looking forward to your answer.
No-one else is to blame for giving the referendum but 17.4million lost control of their brains and were sent into a hypnotic trance and had no willpower to stop themselves putting an X in the Leave the EU box. Next year when the shit hits the fan they'll still be saying, it wasn't my fault.
Who else is to blame for giving you the ref, looking forward to your answer.
Why Stanley blame people that elected Cameron? He shouldn't thank them? I thought he was pro-Brexit
What is Brexit done properly?
The UK should leave tomorrow?
UK will be paralysed by Monday.
Stanley is more anti-EU than pro-Brexit
He hates the EU but knows leaving it will be catastrophic.
I've only ever heard a few arguments from 'Leavers' that made me think "yeah ok I appreciate your point and can see why you voted leave but I disagree". Everyone else just rings out the 'Project Fear' line without offering anything.
A decision affecting all of us; and one that although most of them don't want to believe, based on ignorance.
A decision affecting all of us; and one that although most of them don't want to believe, based on ignorance.
Downing Street said the company (Airbus)was “within their rights to communicate how they want to” but said dialogue would continue.
“We are confident that we are going to get a good deal where trade is as free and frictionless as possible, including for the aerospace sector,” the prime minister’s spokeswoman said.
“The UK makes a vital contribution to the success of the European aerospace industry and it is in no one’s interest to disrupt the sector’s cross-border supply chain. We have made good progress. Now we are working towards a full agreement in October and part of that work is listening to businesses.”
Why is the Airbus story such a surprise, everyone knew this long before the referendum. Same for the car industry and just about everything else, why are they only listening to businesses now, three years too late.
It has to be completely frictionless ie staying in the CU/SM, ie not really leaving.
When is the UK going to wake up? When it's too late.
“We are confident that we are going to get a good deal where trade is as free and frictionless as possible, including for the aerospace sector,” the prime minister’s spokeswoman said.
“The UK makes a vital contribution to the success of the European aerospace industry and it is in no one’s interest to disrupt the sector’s cross-border supply chain. We have made good progress. Now we are working towards a full agreement in October and part of that work is listening to businesses.”
Why is the Airbus story such a surprise, everyone knew this long before the referendum. Same for the car industry and just about everything else, why are they only listening to businesses now, three years too late.
It has to be completely frictionless ie staying in the CU/SM, ie not really leaving.
When is the UK going to wake up? When it's too late.
In response of the last tweet, someone suggested that since Airbus employs 14000 people, their departure would mean 14000 jobs lost but that's not close to reality. Companies like Airbus or BMW are the center of an entire industry they provide work to thousands of smaller companies that rely on them. As an example in Toulouse Airbus employs 30000 but the aeronautic employs 146000 people in 1900 companies.
So you don’t think anybody is an idiot unless they disagree with you in which case they are an idiot?
That's not what I said.
If they disagree with me is up to them.
If they believe lies and are conned by those lies then yes they are idiots, if they vote for something which with 100% certainty will damage their lives then yes they are idiots.
The UK is now down to 2 choices voted for by Brexiters now that staying is not really an option.
One is staying in the CU/SM - if Brexiters thought they voted for this - what is intelligent about being exactly the same as before but paying more and having no say in the EU parliament.
Second option is no deal, NI problem, supply chains grind to a halt, not just car parts or aerospace parts, food, medicine, services, travel, logistics, investments, currency , you name it it will be severely disrupted - why would you vote for that.
There still remains this idea that Theresa May will be negotiating for something that is not a cliff edge but Brexit is the cliff edge. Whether she has 5 MPs or 650 MPs it makes no difference.
The EU are waiting for her to choose option one or option two not which bits she would like to keep. This is clearly a problem in the British media whether it be pro-Brexit or pro-Remain media, they still do not explain what is at stake here.
Boris Bing FM is a stain on this nation.
The 'pro-business' Conservative Party everyone.
The entire political system in this country has lost it's head chasing the idiot vote.
The entire political system in this country has lost it's head chasing the idiot vote.
Is there not a case to be brought for criminal derilliction of duty when senior members of parliament show such scant disregard for the damages their policies will do to Britain's business and its citizens. The same level of negligence in Engineering or medicine would see you in court and potentially in jail but certainly banned from ever practicing again.
I know we love to laugh at how ludicrous Boris, Nigel and chums are but they are driving this country over a cliff edge and nobody seems to want them stopping.
Surprised to see that a significant percentage of people protesting are clearly 50+ years.
you think the loss of jobs will be worse than 14000?
I've long thought politicians should be held legally responsible for their policies. It's the only profession I know of where you can enact policy that leads to the direct deaths of tens of thousands of people, and the only accountability is that they might not get voted in next time.