There was a poll in 2016 where 72% voted Remain
You left out those who didn't vote in 2016.
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There was a poll in 2016 where 72% voted Remain
You left out those who didn't vote in 2016.
I'll caveat that with I don't see any realistic prospect of a 2nd referendum where that will be on the ballot as it's clear Corbyn and McDonald want to keep it off any ballot ... And I think the prospect of ANY 2nd vote is low...
So now the brainless eu are worried that labour wont back mays plans unless it includes remaining in the CU, they really are a bunch of feckwits, words fail me.
That's not it. It's not May's plans.
If May gets a deal she will have to have caved in to the EU. If Labour then manage to vote down that deal, there's not going to be another deal on the table.
Thus if Labour votes down the deal there is only one outcome , no deal.
And we all know Corbyn is not interested in remaining, he just wants to force a general election.
No deal wont Force a general election though imo... But Corbyn will be seen as the one who stopped a deal... A no deal probably won't hurt the conservative popularity in polls... But Corbyn carrying the can for no deal could potentiallyhave a big impact on labour popularity
I can't see May getting a deal anyway and yes agree with what you say. Corbyn has got this all wrong.
You are totally ignoring what Labour would turn down, would you like to repeat what they said or do you want to stick your fingers in your ears and shout blah blah blah?
There isn't a deal, Paul said so recently. Labour said it today. feck sake
I heard what Corbyn said, also the sniggering from the audience. If May gets a deal, Brexit will be pointless, which means Moggy and his mates won't be happy. What Labour does or doesn't do is irrelevant. The only thing they can do is break the deal if there is one which will be BINO. Corbyn should have taken his chance in 2017, if he had one.
can the labours force a second referendum (with some rogue Tories)?
They don't want a second referendum. Corbyn is a long time Eurosceptic. If there is another referendum forced by them it will be on the shape of Brexit only. Labour have been in hiding over Brexit the whole time. They will never admit it but Corbyn and O'Donnell's ideal outcome would be a hard Brexit destroying the Tories for a generation and then they start their socialist revolution free from the tentacles of the EU.
They would rather force an election.
As others have said they only want an election, Corbyn wants power and Brexit.
Even if May had to resign the Tories would appoint a Brexiteer and carry on till 2022.
Yikes.
Lately I was hoping they were about to ask for a second referendum. But apparently there is no hope for that.
Lately I was hoping they were about to ask for a second referendum. But apparently there is no hope for that.
It's difficult to know how much support for a second referendum there really is. A lot of Labour supporters want one, but they don't want one enough to call for any challenge to Jeremy and McDonnell. A lot seem to think it would be a way of forcing the EU to offer a better deal, which I doubt is quite how Barnier would see it.
Support for a second referendum might also increase or decrease depending on whether May makes a deal or not, and whilst we all have views on the likelihood of that, the fact is we don't actually know yet.
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Support for a second referendum might also increase or decrease depending on whether May makes a deal or not, and whilst we all have views on the likelihood of that, the fact is we don't actually know yet.
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Firstly the government has to allow a referendum, the Tories won't.
Secondly the government won't hold an election, they nearly messed up last year and would be stupid to take the same risk.
Labour can't do anything without power.
Furthermore there are only 6 months and 2 days left until the UK leave.
If we forget all of that and say a referendum could take place.
The choice has to be In or Out again. Labour don't want that. Tories don't want that.
Let's say Leave wins again - back to where we were
Let's say Remain wins - do the Leavers just shut up and the UK stays in the EU with a condition of not being able to change their mind for say 10 or 20 years and would they keep all the special treatment they get from the EU?
Some will surely want a third option of going back again and again to the EU because the deal doesn't suit them.
The UK will be arguing about it amongst themselves for another 40 years whether they are in or out of the EU, the EU can't wait that long.
The numbers don't exist.
Labour tried to amend the Brexit bills many times, for example, if the negotiations fail, Labour's amendment would keep Britain in the single market. They tried to get Troy rebels but got only 3, and that is nowhere near enough (especially since 2-3 Labour MPs are leaver too). If pro-remain Tories are ok with a no-deal exit, they will not support a second referendum I think.
Yep for all the bizarre fixation liberals have on changing Labour position, if they really wanted to change the course of Brexit they should be thinking of joining the tory party - lower membership that is dying off. Or at the very least lobbying that pro remain tories.
I have to disagree with you there. No other occupiers instituted religious or class segregation or took away entire swathes of land for themselves. The Vikings for example didnt do any damage compared to the british empire. I cant be having that false equivalency mate sorry. Not when you consider the famine was essentially a genocide.
That's enough thread-derailing thank you. If you want to argue the history of Ireland then start a different thread.
Definitely. I will be happy to educate the masses!
Boris releases his brexit plan today... Which does make me wonder is he plotting a coup at conference (might they have sufficient letters ready to go from MP's to start a challenge... Say late today or over the weekend)
Pro-remain Torres are not ok with a no-deal exit, and will bring down the government before allowing it.
I pretty much said from the start of this process that a no deal/hard Brexit was inescapable. It’s becoming increasingly evident too.
I just hope they spend the next 6 months putting as much in place as needs be to smooth the transition.
I just hope they spend the next 6 months putting as much in place as needs be to smooth the transition.
I think it's incredibly complacent to trust or expect the government to 'smooth this transition'. They aren't up to it. You need to make your own plans too. There's enough risk of a colossal feck up to make it necessary. We're beyond project fear now, time for project consequences.
18th October is the EU meeting - which means that in reality lets say 1 week before there needs to be behind the scenes some basic agreement in order to draft and approve it in time for 18th
So thats 11th October roughly as a timeline for doing that
and we have the conservative conference running to the 3rd (which will likley either end in a lot of the EU is nasty and make any negations even more difficult or end in a leadership challenge / election that will kill dead any negotiations)
In short a no deal really must be about 99% certain now (especially with the additional hurdle of getting it through parliament)
So thats 11th October roughly as a timeline for doing that
and we have the conservative conference running to the 3rd (which will likley either end in a lot of the EU is nasty and make any negations even more difficult or end in a leadership challenge / election that will kill dead any negotiations)
In short a no deal really must be about 99% certain now (especially with the additional hurdle of getting it through parliament)
Making plans is one thing, bringing these plans to fruition is quite another. I hope that most, if not all of the business, have already done the risk analysis for a no-deal Brexit and have come up with a list of actions to be undertaken when that result is solidified.
However a lot of these actions are both quite expensive and complex, especially for anything that is related to manufacturing and distribution. For example moving part of a business somewhere else to circumvent the barriers being put up, requires acquiring real estate, equipment, hiring/relocating staff, training etc. etc. Things that you can't do in 6 months. And things you don't want to start doing unless the result of the negotiations is definite and fixed because the cost is huge.
I think given the time constraints the best that can be done is for the government to agree to hard Brexit and negotiate only a short-term extension of the status quo (single market access) with a fixed end date. The end state will no doubt be a hard Brexit with no access to single market, a fallback to WTO and tariffs on goods. What we had so far was a negotiating period, now we need a transition period. It needs to be put in place so both sides can decide the tariffs, put in place border/customs controls that are currently not in place and to give businesses some time to implement their "no-deal Brexit" plans.
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Britain wants to become a mini US with a mini Trump as leader.
The desperation to align the UK with the US by any means necessary is alarming .
You now have senior Tories willing to say, nothing should be off the table including the NHS.
You now have senior Tories willing to say, nothing should be off the table including the NHS.
I'm not sure that a hard brexit is something that businesses can simply plan around. For many, the disruption to trading relationships, supply chains, markets and cashflows will make it an existential threat. I guess it's back to the days of 3 million unemployed then.
I hope so but they have proven themselves remarkably gutless up to now.
There is no such thing as a Tory rebel. They will ruin the country to .maintain party unity.
That's ironic, since the position most correlated with the ruination of the country is that of a no-deal Brexit. And that is a rebel Tory position.
Boris Johnson's 6 point plan has no real answers to fixing Brexit
https://www.businessinsider.com/bor...deal-negotiation-theresa-may-2018-9?r=UK&IR=T
So we have
1. May's Chequers plan which was already rejected over 2 months ago which she is still clinging to.
2. Labour's six Brexit tests which mean their own plans fail.
3. Boris's plan which solves nothing.
I know, let's have a referendum.
1. May's Chequers plan which was already rejected over 2 months ago which she is still clinging to.
2. Labour's six Brexit tests which mean their own plans fail.
3. Boris's plan which solves nothing.
I know, let's have a referendum.
well I dont think anybody ever expected any workable alternative plans from Boris - its just positioning for a leadership run (the only real question is does he try now or wait for May to fail first (though run the risk Mogg or Gove or Davies etc positions themselves ahead of him)
More rhetorical bullshit with no actual practical real-life proposals.
Some of these people should be charged with treason. Boris always struck me as a lad who needed a good kick up the hole.
Incredible that we are less than 6 months to Brexit and we have not yet had a factual, reasonable debate about Brexit.