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Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Leader of the clique. Express your support quick or they'll turn on you, en masse.
Brexit: Facts vs Fear, with Stephen Fry
Maybe the remain campaign should have emphasised these points more.
Maybe the remain campaign should have emphasised these points more.
Not sure a lot of Brexiteers care too much about facts.
Given all we now know, that most leave voters still want to leave makes the idea their vote was a protest even less convincing. It makes no sense to stick to a protest vote when your message has been delivered loud and clear. Therefore, I am depressed to conclude a sizeable proportion of Brits are xenophobic.
Had an argument about brexit with my dad (a Leave voter) last night. Depressing.
Obviously. The number 1 benefit Theresa May touts of her Brexit deal is the ending of freedom of movement. Everything sacrificed to stop a Romanian moving next door
Indeed... though in many ways i think it was more a general protest about politics ....l think only a few percent from either side will have changed opinion... The real battle in a second referendum is getting the people who did not vote before to vote (I believe more didn't vote than voted for either leave or remain)
Even the slight demographic changes that will have occured in the last 2-3 years will give a slight boost to remain too I should think. The issue is so polarised by age that I have no doubt we've lost a lot of Leave voters and welcomed a decent number of new pro-EU voters into the electorate since the vote. In a way, the longer a 2nd referendum takes to happen the better from a Remain perspective.
For it to be a convincing margin though, you're right. Things are so finely posed in British politics at the moment that any political force that could tap into a significant number of non-voters would sweep the board electorally.
Yes, I said earlier that it has to be done before 29th March and they would probably work until the last minute if there was a strong probability that the UK cancelled it but, and it's a big but, the EU doesn't just revolve around the UK and the EU have got to start putting into place the scenario for no deal if they see that the deal is voted down on the 11th December.
In all seriousness I think the EU have really had enough of Brexit.
Discussing with a leaver just then. They've twisted it round to them somehow being deceived since the vote, rather than before it. As if they know leaving would be good still, but that the gov doesn't want to so they're sabotaging the negotiations and going for a 2nd vote. Possibly (hopefully) some truth to it, but they still can't admit it was obviously going to be a shitshow the whole time, so why fecking vote that way?
They ended with the usual justification when asked that about fishermen in the channel or something. I've no idea why they all give a shit about fishing all of a sudden, and not about every common man and woman in the country instead.
They ended with the usual justification when asked that about fishermen in the channel or something. I've no idea why they all give a shit about fishing all of a sudden, and not about every common man and woman in the country instead.
Hope you did the right thing and twatted him one
They don't seem worried about the car industry which would all but disappear if it was no deal and who employ far more people than the fishing industry.
Trying to think like a Brexiter here - maybe because you can eat fish but you can't eat cars?
As that other one was posted a few days back
(without don't knows)
(without don't knows)
I can't see it happening...
But I agree with this article
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-ever-wants-become-152848348.html
If Corbyn used the debate to come out and switch labour policy to backing a second referendum it could be a game changer... And would certainly make the debate tough for may as I doubt she would be prepared for that.
As I say I can't see it though
But I agree with this article
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-ever-wants-become-152848348.html
If Corbyn used the debate to come out and switch labour policy to backing a second referendum it could be a game changer... And would certainly make the debate tough for may as I doubt she would be prepared for that.
As I say I can't see it though
It won't happen before the commons vote. To do so would mean Corbyn giving up any hope of ever putting his policies into place. May would go to town on him trying to block brexit.
I'll settle with them coming out fighting that they won't allow a no deal or abad deal. May won't be able to challenge against it and she'll look bad doing so.
I struggle to see Corbyn backing any second referendum before a TV debate largely because the Tories/May would thus paint him as an enormous hypocrite, someone deceiving the public all the way only to change tact at the last moment etc.
Possibly... Though if he stands there for 90 mins without something other than his 6 tests and renegotiation he will look like a fool when he's continually reminded that the EU have said not a chance
Be it a Norway style deal... A second referendum... A hard brexit... Whatever they have to have something to say
... To summarize this article they have to choose
https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...ared-for-speed-chess-brexit-especially-labour
True, their strategy of basically pretending the issue doesn't exist had arguably worked tactically so far but was always going to look ridiculous in the long-term.
Along those lines, from today:
Beyond a joke now.
That is pretty good analysis. Labour cannot continue with the ducking and fudging.
I'm not really sure it's worked for them at all. All the arguments in favour of it are rooted in the counter factual ('well, if they'd taken a strong position they might have lost voters in x, y, and z') whilst their irrelevance on the political stage has pushed the window further away from what they want from a point after the referendum when even Boris was said to be in favour of a soft Brexit to the ERG managing push the Tories harder and harder.
At the same time, the great political play of not taking a position has, at best, put them very slightly ahead of a government that is almost historically incompetent. Polling figures that would, in any other scenario rightly worry an opposition party.
So I'm struggling to see it as anything approaching a win for Labour. I think they'll unfortunately be mired in the whole mess as a party too spineless to oppose the excesses of the Tories feckwittery.
Of course it's not a win, it's only damage control.
The polling data is very heavily tied into Brexit so I'm not sure the usual arguments apply. The next 2 week could make or break the party for a long time i just think anyone expecting anything substantial in the TV debates is going to be very disappointed.
I still can't get my head around the debate, i hope Corbyn calls May out for dodging one at the GE.
It's simply too late for Labour to steal the narrative on brexit.
The story about Labour strategists trying to shape the debate so he could talk about austerity instead of Brexit, showed exactly how much of a feck he gives about it.
They also seem pathologically incapable of doing anything beyond saying Theresa May is bad.
It's all I ever get from my dad now. Anytime I'm in the same room as him it's 'oh I bet you're happy now aren't you?'.
I don't even know how to respond anymore. How I'm supposed to be happy with the alteration to the timeline that was foisted upon us and everything that might happen in the future because of it I don't know.
He's also someone that doesn't accept that semantics matter and that the ballot paper simply saying Leave meant we had every possibility of Brexit from walling up and having patrols to stop immigrants coming anywhere near our little island to BRINO. To him, 'we voted to leave' means whatever he wanted, not what the actual vote was.
Their strategy is to wait and see and then skew their reaction to whatever occurs to their best advantage. Having sat on the fence with fudged statements throughout they can also claim they told us all this from day one.
Our relationship with the EU is completely fecked forever and that is job done for Jezzer. It's not a concern any longer which is why he's happy to have a TV debate that is 100% about austerity.
I don't get this narrative that if the deal is not accepted, then we risk no deal, or no Brexit.
What's the risk of no Brexit?
What's the risk of no Brexit?
I dont disagree with anything you have said. On your last point I think the people will realise too late that the EU really wasnt the problem.
I would say that your position within the EU would likely be weakened slightly because of the Brexit attempt but no one knows.
Serves us fecking right then, doesn't it?
Our position in the EU has always been weak and seen as something of a pariah because of our continual dismissal of the EU elections as an excuse to protest by sending numpties like Farrage to Brussels who only serve to disrupt and show contempt for the Union when they can be arsed to show up at all.
If we were to perhaps take our membership seriously, elect decent MEPs and hold them to the task of guiding Europe then maybe there might be a warmer welcome for us but if we're only going to turn up and feign superiority whilst doing feck all then we deserve a weakened position.
So they're delaying the immigration white paper now as well. What parliament is being asked to vote on is so flimsy and insubstantial I'm surprised they're not refusing to vote.
An economic analysis that doesn't cover the actual proposal, hidden legal advice, essentially wiki copy and paste industry papers. Farce
An economic analysis that doesn't cover the actual proposal, hidden legal advice, essentially wiki copy and paste industry papers. Farce
Brexiters see it as a risk. The wording is aimed directly at them.
If Brexit does get scrapped (unlikely), I imagine the EU will insert a clause that doesn't allow for article 50 activation for another 20 years or so.
Just in case we try to pull the same stunt twice within 2-3 years or something.
May should change her motto from 'Strong and Stable' to 'Fish and Foreigners'
I agree yes. This whole mess could easily have been avoided.
Just watching Stephen Barclay, new Brexit secretary, giving evidence to the committee, third one in a row who has no idea what he's doing.