I'm not sure how that applies to the point he's making though. When Corbyn came in polling numbers and projections were ignored because members believed he was ultimately doing the right thing, and that the results would come once his policies and ideology were explained properly. Now Remainers make the same arguments about Brexit but are dismissed by polling numbers, previous results and projections. Almost as if those previous arguments concocted by some of Corbyn's fans were just excuses to justify his failings.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I'm not sure how that applies to the point he's making though. When Corbyn came in polling numbers and projections were ignored because members believed he was ultimately doing the right thing, and that the results would come once his policies and ideology were explained properly. Now Remainers make the same arguments about Brexit but are dismissed by polling numbers, previous results and projections. Almost as if those previous arguments concocted by some of Corbyn's fans were just excuses to justify his failings.
Unfortunately you can’t triangulate remain and leave and at some point Labour will have to come out with a concrete policy (not the waffle Starmer came out with yesterday).
IMO, that means offering a Second Referendum if Labour is elected, campaigning for Remain in that campaign and making it clear that, under Labour, there will be no return to June 2016 and they will start addressing the social and regional inequalities that fuelled Leave and were cynically exploited by Cummings and Farage and wrongly blamed on the EU. Unfortunately, however, I think Corbyn genuinely wants to Leave and I am not even sure he is that interested in governing.
I took the decision in April 2017 after A50 was triggered to apply for French nationality and it came through after 16/17 months so now I have both. I had no intention of becoming a pawn in anyone's game.
I was more concerned about travelling within the EU than anything.
If I had to choose now I would rescind my UK citizenship without any concern.
No mention at all that Corbyn and McDonnell are lifelong Brexiters who are too cowardly to admit it to their own party, and their supporters just can't face up to this so have to pretend they're for Brexit out of some cunning electoral masterplan, however much they don't believe in it, and however much damage it will cause. How's that for 'a bit of perspective'?
The sooner the Labour left admit they've a problem, ditch their current leaders, and replace them with someone to the left but honest and at least vaguely competent the better it will be for all of us.
David Lammy talking sense again:
All I'm saying is that it's not surprising that a leader who faced constant attack to be more electable has now chosen to go with the option that doesn't alienate a considerable number of Labour voters.
I don't like him turning his back on the membership but it's what the majority of his MPs wanted and they got what they wished.
Well yes but he isn't choosing the root that makes him more electable because there's little evidence to suggest their current approach is working, either through current polling or in what will happen afterwards. And the argument he's doing this to make him more 'electable' again becomes more suspicious when you remember he's spent most of his life as a bit of a Brexiteer anyway.
The great majority of Labour MPs are anti-Brexit aren't they?
Possibly, motive matters little its still the outcome most of his MPs want.
The polling would be way worse if they'd been stronger on a referendum or cancelling brexit. Of course they could come out with some master brexit plan that solves all the issues but there isn't one so moving towards even a permanent customs union is a win over Mays plan.
Party, individual and constituency politics are all very seperate things. If they're all for cancelling brexit they're doing a bad job of showing it.
Yes but many are MPs of Leave areas.
On a wider point, an issue with politics from 2015 onwards has been the too simplistic view from many “Liberal” types that:
Remain = Left Wing and Good
Brexit = Right Wing and Bad
There should have been more nuance in the discussion.
Tory MPs (and some Labour) who allowed the disenfranchisement and helped put in the foundations for an idea like Brexit are screaming about the dangers of it and trying to get the disenfranchised back on side. Perhaps if they had engaged more before...
They are indeed different things, and yes the MPs are doing a bad job of showing it, it's understandable you were misled.
Indeed. If only the dear leader could be as sensible, and as honest, the UK's prospects would look much better.
This is fair but also doesn't really help when Brexit is a matter of literal weeks away, and is a process that will feck over the disenfranchised far more than anything that's come before if it isn't dealt with properly.
I think for younger folk you have a point with this, the older ones amongst us remember that it used to be very much the left wing of Labour that were very anti-Europe, and the centrists were pro. Corbyn and McDonnell are of course the remnants of that.
Yes but screaming “racist” or “bigot” at anyone (hello James O’Brien) who is anti EU didn’t work in 2016 and it won’t work now.
If you stopped Brexit now, you’d see support for Far Right groups/parties increase because people will feel even more like they’re not being listened to. They’ll jump into supporting Tommy Robinson and co
It’s been interesting seeing the obvious backlash from that Tory MP being called a Nazi. That and “Fascist” are often overused by many Centrists, Liberals etc to describe anyone whos even slightly critical of certain elements of the EU or Globalisation.
Of course not, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call out racist or bigotry when it's actually displayed. And plenty has been on show. Similarly the stupid of certain politicians trying to implement Brexit should be called out as well.
So Brexiters who supposedly are not rascists or bigots would support a rascist and a bigot. OK then.
It's probably your negative posts causing the pound to fall.
Should be interesting next week. A bit of movement I suspect.
Corbyn is a hopeless case.
Bizarre, isn't it?
"I'm not a racist. So to prove I'm not, I'm going to...become a racist!"
We should always call out Racism and Bigotry.
The issue is many (some potentially reasonable) issues that people have with the EU are all seen as the same as the "let's get rid of all the foreigners".
What time is the vote expected to happen?
I work for a foreign exchange company and they're warning us that we might have to work longer on Tuesday/Wednesday if the pound plummets.
There will be a lot of data behind their approach. I tried explaining this possibility to Oscie. It’s only my assumption of course but I think that if you had a Venn Diagram of voters, the number of Leave Labour voters who would stay at home or switch to vote UKIP/Tory if Labour tried to run on a pro-Remain/2nd Referendum platform far outweighs the number of Remainer-Tories who would actually vote for Corbyn.
Some time on Tuesday evening I believe.
Are you telling me to get my holiday Euro's in now? How much worse can it get?
Bizarre, isn't it?
"I'm not a racist. So to prove I'm not, I'm going to...become a racist!"
We live in a strange world.
I dunno, I think this would depend on many technicalities of any individual campaign and what happens. It might be the case that it'd happen now, but then that's largely because Labour have spent so much time veering between committing to Brexit and not really saying anything about it at all to the point where a switch would be hypocritical.
Even if some Labour leavers did abandon the party there's a solid argument it wouldn't necessarily lose the party too many seats. In the north of England there are a lot of pro-Brexit areas where Labour could lose, say, 5-10% of their current voting tally and still win the seat comfortably. Meanwhile, there were some fairly liberal Tory-type seats like Kensington they managed to pick up in 2016 by virtue of being less pro-Brexit than the Tories.
I reckon it'd also depend on how the Lib Dems perform. They're fecking awful when it comes to marketing themselves and have no idea how to muster any sort of voter enthusiasm, but if they did manage to improve their polling by, say, even 5% across the country, which isn't exactly inconceivable, then that could feck over Labour.
It's been hovering around the 1.10/1.15 range for quite some time waiting to see if the Uk commits suicide or not. If the Uk does commit suicide , a lot worse , on the other hand if something sensible ensues the pound will improve.
Well the market's at about 1.11 right now for GBP/EUR so assuming May's deal gets voted down on Tuesday, I'd expect it to drop a fair way from there. You also have to consider that whoever you get your Euro's from will take some sort of a margin off of that as well, so if it drops to 1.09 for example you might only get given a rate of 1.07.
It'll probably go back up again but the uncertainty will hurt the GBP a lot.
Ugh I'm on Eastern Time so I'll still be at work. Might not get out on time that day but we'll see.
I don't think all Brexiters are Racist but I do think if you're still an ardent Brexitier now you're either looking to profit off the chaos, Racist, thick as pigshite or not paying attention.
The EU has it's issues but this country has significantly larger issues the majority of which have virtually nothing to do with the EU.
For me their is no reasonable reason to leave the EU if you weighed up the positives/negatives the risk/reward is like gambling everything you have for the chance of winning 1pence.
Part of me just wants it to happen, just to see the chaos but the brexiters will never take responsibility for their stupidity they'll blame and bully.
I don't believe there's a set time so it could happen late in the evening.
Rather have a election than another referendum, what a load of bollocks!
Waiting for idiots to spin Lammy as a Centrist Blairite.
I mean some are starting to call Paul Mason that ffs!
I see. Cheers
I'm thankfully not from the UK, but insulin normally has an expiry date of 18months approx from the manufacturing date. Presumably your partner can order it as needed by prescription so I don't think there would be any harm in having supplies for 3 to 6 months. It looks like everything could be a fiasco by March, but I can't imagine there not being life dependent medication available after a few weeks or months at worst.
The move of jobs (and mainly assets) from Axa UK to Axa Ireland has been pretty significant news here. Considering they're transferring the Reinsurance arm to Dublin - that's another massive chunk of assets being kept on the books in Ireland. The amount of Reinsurers in Dublin is also making the place comparable to Bermuda "Risk efficient" model....
More than a trillion dollars worth of assets moved out of UK based financial institutions already apparently.
Junker still staying they don't know what clarifications are required. The votes on Tuesday and the previous vote was nearly a month ago yet there's still nothing achieved. Incredible that its getting very little coverage.
There seems to be talk of the Lib Dems pulling their referendum amendment due to uncertainty on numbers. It won't take many Labour rebel MPs from leave constituencies (supposing it is Labour backed) to defeat it. The general election angle is probably partially to cater for these MPs concerns.
There seems to be talk of the Lib Dems pulling their referendum amendment due to uncertainty on numbers. It won't take many Labour rebel MPs from leave constituencies (supposing it is Labour backed) to defeat it. The general election angle is probably partially to cater for these MPs concerns.