No Repeal Bill, Brexit on hold yet again.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...jeremy-corbyn-whips-leave-eu-go-a7930616.html
Or that too complicated for you to understand ?
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No Repeal Bill, Brexit on hold yet again.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...jeremy-corbyn-whips-leave-eu-go-a7930616.html
Or that too complicated for you to understand ?
Wow, this bill not getting passed tonight untriggers Article 50? I can't believe none of the MPs in the debate or even the words in the bill say that.
You're a tad confused I think.
Labour wrote a manifesto. A tax and spend manifesto. They were going to tax. And they were going to spend. The promised to privatise, they promised to fund public projects, and they promised to scrap tuition fees.
This was going to cost a lot. But their numbers more or less added up depending on how much people thought they would bring in from their increased tax rates.
Later, some people started claiming that Labour were promising to scrap the existing student debt. This wasn't a manifesto promise, although Corbyn did say he would look at it. Later, others criticised him for backtracking, forcing Corbyn to say "I never said we would abolish student debt" (your link)
No one is saying that Labour's policy wouldn't cost a lot. It would.
But saying "there is no magic money tree" and then finding £1bn to pay a bribe is something else.
No....Not confused....
The Tories paid out a €1 billion bribe to stay in power.
Labour wanted to pay out a €40 billion bribe to get into power.
Well, at least you admit the Tories paid a bribe.
Just thick then?
A policy is a bribe?
Boy wait until he finds out about the Triple Lock.
In latest shock news: Politician lies in order to obtain power!!
What I like about EU spending is there is no votes to be won by it, so it goes where it's needed. The DUP got a billion but this will mean even more austerity for the rest of us
Heh, your country is gonna lose a hell of a lot more money per billion by leaving the EU than by staying in and paying for those "motorways".
At least the NHS will be thriving with all that money going to .. oh wait.
Quite, and Corbyn is guilty of that too, but in this instance he's getting flak from people who like to portray young people as thick because because they imagine he said something that he didn't, imagine other people made the same mistake they did, and are imaging he's denying saying something he did rather than the statement that he didn't
Certain irony there...
I'd answer you all, but...
I'm off to earn some unexpected money, ironically, courtesy of the EU and need to get the paperwork sorted pronto.
40 metric tonnes of fresh cut flowers and Mange-tout peas from Kenya can't go directly from Kenya to the UK because EU Tarrifs would make them more ( too ? ) expensive in the supermarkets.
Solution ?
We're taking them to Turkey, where the paperwork will be ' adjusted ' by an allegedly reputable import/export company to make Turkey their country of origin and then we'll take them on to the UK on behalf of the ( now ) Turkish owners because they can then enter the UK Tariff free.
And don't think this doesn't happen with thousands of shipments out of Africa every night - just that tonight we have space on an aircraft that was originally going to the UK anyway, so all a bit of an unexpected bonus for us.
So I'll leave you guys to have a circle jerk around the EU flag and hopefully see you all again tomorrow for another load of bollocks.
I'm off to earn some unexpected money, ironically, courtesy of the EU and need to get the paperwork sorted pronto.
40 metric tonnes of fresh cut flowers and Mange-tout peas from Kenya can't go directly from Kenya to the UK because EU Tarrifs would make them more ( too ? ) expensive in the supermarkets.
Solution ?
We're taking them to Turkey, where the paperwork will be ' adjusted ' by an allegedly reputable import/export company to make Turkey their country of origin and then we'll take them on to the UK on behalf of the ( now ) Turkish owners because they can then enter the UK Tariff free.
And don't think this doesn't happen with thousands of shipments out of Africa every night - just that tonight we have space on an aircraft that was originally going to the UK anyway, so all a bit of an unexpected bonus for us.
So I'll leave you guys to have a circle jerk around the EU flag and hopefully see you all again tomorrow for another load of bollocks.
God fancy thinking that Brexit will solve situations like that
So you're too busy committing fraud to keep posting around here 
?
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So you're too buys committing fraud to keep posting around here
Hey....No fraud on our part.
We just move other peoples' stuff from one part of the world to another. Who it belongs to is not our problem. You know, 250,000 tonnes of crude oil can change ownership 40 times in the 12 days it take to get from the Gulf to Rotterdam and it never leaves the ship.
Brexit won't solve everything, but....
Go ask the EU why flowers grown in Kenya need to incur a tariff if sent directly by the Kenyan growers, but not if sent by a bunch of dubious import / export agents in Istanbul.
Well ain't that the truth. I'd probably go with 'anything' myself, but it's a start.
Agree, even Norman Tebbit these days admits closing down a number of those mines was wrong as there was no other big employers meaning many of them turned to drugs trafficking.
@Bury Red post 21470676
Good to know about your background in civil engineering and your ambition to do well. Did you need to pay back the Uni at Grenoble for tuition fees?
On crime
Yes agree with UK criminals going to places like the Costas. My info though comes from policeman I know and local ones on FB and the livestock rustling from the BBC, I don’t know who Dacre is and don’t like Murdoch or the Mail. So is it perception or is it the figures are missing something? They always miss some things, like I have stopped assaults and muggings and frightened off someone breaking into my car neither were reported. I don’t think that is it, perhaps then localities of the crime are changing, I’m on the outer suburbs of London and there are stabbings, rapes, cats being killed and tortured and foreign types going around cars and checking the doors. I also think drug crime is becoming widespread and further lower police numbers mean fewer crimes identified and fewer criminals are being caught.
These London stats show a lot of crime is falling yet violent crime is on the increase:
http://www.ukcrimestats.com/Subdivisions/GLA/2247/
Unemployment
The chart you provide shows unemployment falling yet it does not show how many of those jobs created are low paid meaning people need to income support to survive.
Housing
I agree the housing shortage was not the fault of the EU yet allowing hundreds of thousands of EU workers to come here which would exacerbate the problem was incredibly short sighted and incidentally we then got a new term, hotbedding!
Brexit debates
I must have missed those as all I heard were about skilled migrants keeping the NHS going or others working in the caring industry. I saw a number of the TV debates and disliked the way Farage talked negatively about baristas.
I think we can fill those fruit picking jobs yet it will require some thought, perhaps solutions might include selected prisoners, students in exchange for debt free education, or revert to working visas for a short period each year. It might be a mix for it to work.
Economy
Have we recovered? Our national debt went up massively and we are paying a massive amount annually in interest because of the crisis, this is why we have austerity so we don’t become like Greece. Our debt is less than GDP but it is about 90% of GDP so we have to keep interest rates low – penalises savers trying to get on the housing market – new demographic 11m renters! It also penalises pensioners on fixed incomes.
Here lots of small shops went under and though other shops have replaced them they are largely charity shops and poundland type shops and still have boarded up shops. Once again predatory banks were an issue, refusing to renew revolving loans to SMEs and then because the SMEs would go bust they then sold the SME assets and made a quick killing and capital gain. We also still have foodbanks which I had not seen before the Banking Crisis.
NHS pays a huge amount of interest under PFI, this goes to banks, IMO there should be charges brought against someone for this and these contracts re-negotiated. They also appear to have a lot of highly paid managers in the NHS >1400 earning > £100,000 and 10,000 earning > £77,000. Not saying some don’t deserve it (80 hour weeks?) yet suspect some non-medical mangers are earning too much for doing too little.
Good to know about your background in civil engineering and your ambition to do well. Did you need to pay back the Uni at Grenoble for tuition fees?
On crime
Yes agree with UK criminals going to places like the Costas. My info though comes from policeman I know and local ones on FB and the livestock rustling from the BBC, I don’t know who Dacre is and don’t like Murdoch or the Mail. So is it perception or is it the figures are missing something? They always miss some things, like I have stopped assaults and muggings and frightened off someone breaking into my car neither were reported. I don’t think that is it, perhaps then localities of the crime are changing, I’m on the outer suburbs of London and there are stabbings, rapes, cats being killed and tortured and foreign types going around cars and checking the doors. I also think drug crime is becoming widespread and further lower police numbers mean fewer crimes identified and fewer criminals are being caught.
These London stats show a lot of crime is falling yet violent crime is on the increase:
http://www.ukcrimestats.com/Subdivisions/GLA/2247/
Unemployment
The chart you provide shows unemployment falling yet it does not show how many of those jobs created are low paid meaning people need to income support to survive.
Housing
I agree the housing shortage was not the fault of the EU yet allowing hundreds of thousands of EU workers to come here which would exacerbate the problem was incredibly short sighted and incidentally we then got a new term, hotbedding!
Brexit debates
I must have missed those as all I heard were about skilled migrants keeping the NHS going or others working in the caring industry. I saw a number of the TV debates and disliked the way Farage talked negatively about baristas.
I think we can fill those fruit picking jobs yet it will require some thought, perhaps solutions might include selected prisoners, students in exchange for debt free education, or revert to working visas for a short period each year. It might be a mix for it to work.
Economy
Have we recovered? Our national debt went up massively and we are paying a massive amount annually in interest because of the crisis, this is why we have austerity so we don’t become like Greece. Our debt is less than GDP but it is about 90% of GDP so we have to keep interest rates low – penalises savers trying to get on the housing market – new demographic 11m renters! It also penalises pensioners on fixed incomes.
Here lots of small shops went under and though other shops have replaced them they are largely charity shops and poundland type shops and still have boarded up shops. Once again predatory banks were an issue, refusing to renew revolving loans to SMEs and then because the SMEs would go bust they then sold the SME assets and made a quick killing and capital gain. We also still have foodbanks which I had not seen before the Banking Crisis.
NHS pays a huge amount of interest under PFI, this goes to banks, IMO there should be charges brought against someone for this and these contracts re-negotiated. They also appear to have a lot of highly paid managers in the NHS >1400 earning > £100,000 and 10,000 earning > £77,000. Not saying some don’t deserve it (80 hour weeks?) yet suspect some non-medical mangers are earning too much for doing too little.
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What do you mean by that?
So an actual attack on parliamentary sovereignty has been waved through the first stages of parliament by the people who claimed to care about it.
Kill me.
Kill me.
" in collusion with the EU to misrepresent the actual finances of the EU" is your statement and not mine.
I don't for one minute think this is what they set out to do, but its the end result. The reason is the access the auditors have to information across all the EU activities varies considerably. Some aspects are rigorous and fairly reflect e.g. the working of some but not all EU sponsored projects, others do not, this is not 'hidden information, its just information that does not exist, has not been verified or in some case even collected and that which does exist is not authenticated independently.
I mentioned in an earlier post, when I worked for the EU I asked for an independent audit for one EU project 12 times, Brussels refused it every time, so how could this non-existent information be audited by the court of auditors... it didn't exist?
Ain't all leading countries struggle with that? Unions are deeply politically connected always.
And in France unions aren't representative. France isn't a highly unionized country.
I used to look forward to your posts but you now sound like you are a Tory voter and that's put me off.
The Tories should have transitioned more gently (and god know they didn't give a shit about the struggles of working people) but the transition away from manufacturing was inevitable in the face of globalization and low labour costs in the east. Obviously the rational thing to do was move as much manufacturing as possible towards high tech/quality stuff which is how Germany retained its substantial manufacturing base, but there was always going to need to be a lot of people moving towards services. My issue isn't with that transition, its with how working people were never given the help and support to make those transitions, but rather told to 'get on their bike' by a bunch of pompous millionaires who wouldnt know a days work if it kicked them in the face.
Incidentally although I'm not a friend of neo-liberalism as such, trickle down economics is more of a hardline conservative belief. I'm not saying a lot of neo-liberals don't believe it, but it started long before that.
I don't have any problem with strikes as a way for workers to stand up for their rights, but it should be a policy of last resort not a regular occurance. If business can't operate efficiently then the economy is going to bottom out like it did back then, what is sad that even today people use those times as an argument against any union or worker power, as if an extreme example undercuts the entire principle. Also of course that as the needle swung to the right it went so damn far and hurt so many people.
You did say only the EU commissioners receive the information but most of the information is supplied by different member states and each individual state wishes to know how the money has been spent - there is more transparency than in one government's individual spending I gave the Uk as an example but could apply to any state.
Presume in your case you are talking some time ago, I don't know the circumstances but in more recent times, around the last 10 years matters have become more clearer.
Not saying the EU is perfect but a glimpse of the alternative is last night , people thinking they are taking back control, control is further away from the UK public than it has been for donkey's years and people keep on believing all the lies. If you vote for change, surely it has to be for the better, where is the better?
Yes they receive separate reports, about collective financial management. Also of course each commissioner receives information relative to their own brief.
You may not recall the Edith Cresson Affair and the Santer Commission Resignations? This was a 'saga' that went on for the best part of 6/7 years it would have been hilarious had not been so serious, there were solemn promises to 'wipe the slate clean' and 'never again would the EU allow individually or collectively, its Commissioners such leeway that could allow or lead to such corruption, on such a scale'.
It was all so much hogwash. Yes, some things were change, one being the principle of rigorous accountancy and financial regulation that would ensure there was no possibility of executive deniability, this has never been tested yet.
Look, I could go on, but you accept the EU is not perfect, I would say its very far from being perfect and it has no intention of becoming so. Yes, there will be some adjustments in leaving the EU, but fundamentality it is not it Britain's long term interest to stay in an organisation that cannot and more importantly will not try to improve itself, the principle of continual organisational improvement is something which has passed the EU by, a long time ago.
Few things with this:
Someone is committing fraud by changing the origin of the goods, whether the people actually doing it or the people who instructed those people to do it - and if the UK customs don't pick it up, yet another case where the EU will have to pick up on the UK customs for not doing their job properly.
In the future under WTO rules, which the UK look as if they're desperate for, there won't be enough customs officers to go round to check everything nor the civil servants to deal with the imports/exports to and from Europe on top of the non-EU trade. Do you envisage massive hold-ups in clearing goods you're importing into the UK after 29th March 2019?
Of course it's fraud....
But the fraud is in Turkey - the growers sell the goods to the Turks, a 100% commercial transaction, and so are no longer involved and certainly don't give instructions to the new owners about what to do and when or how.
Then, as owners of the goods, the Turkish agency are responsible for preparing the ' correct ' paperwork for ( their ! ) goods to enter the EU. It's surprising how very, very few EU Customs Agents are operating on the ground in Turkey, so easy to do.
The stuff then leaves Turkey by road ( not too sure where they cross the EU border as we only 'book' road services because we have no vehicles of our own- but almost certainly Bulgaria ) then once that EU border is crossed, there are no further checks of paperwork, etc, because of the EU <> Turkey Trade Agreement.
Even if there were spot checks en route, which happens occasionally, these days they're always for illegal drugs and illegal immigrants, not false paperwork, and it would be almost impossible for any Customs people to identify whether the goods are genuinely of Turkish origin or not - most common fruit / veg / flowers are indistinguishable as regards country of origin.
Your question about post-Brexit.
First off, we don't clear anything ourselves - we provide transport only and it's the exporters / importers who have to work with their own Clearing Agents.
Having said that - I'm certain there will be disruption at UK ports and airports when the rules change and it will certainly affect ourselves in the Transit Times we can offer / achieve to our road transport customers, so we are currently arguing amongst ourselves whether to drop that part of the business and just concentrate on Airside A < > Airside B for any imports to / exports from the UK.
But its was more or less the same ' Feck - how are we going to manage ' problem in ( was it 1989 ? Can't remember, I'm sure you can ) when the EC introduced the concept of duty / tariffs becoming payable at the port of entry into the EC, and not on entry into the final destination. I was out of work not once, but twice, when the DHL-clone companies I was working for both went down the tubes when their business model collapsed because when, say, a sheep farmer in Greece, imported something from the USA and the companies' hub and spoke networks meant that the products had to be unloaded and duty paid in Paris. Imagine how difficult it was to get hold of the guy in Greece and get the money off him before his shipment could clear customs in Paris and then reloaded on to Greece. But eventually some companies got to grips with the change; designed appropriate cross-border IT systems to cope; and went on to make $ gazillions.
Fairly sure it'll be the same problems / opportunities post-Brexit.
Legally speaking you are still in breach of the corrupt practices act and could be successfully prosecuted for the fraud of your 3rd party agent in Turkey even if you were unaware of it since it is your duty of care to ensure no corruption is carried out on your behalf knowingly or unknowingly.
Morally you're no better than the likes of Cameron circumventing the EU regulations on steel imports to allow his Chinese mates to dump subgrade alloys in the UK and feck Port Talbot. It's these sort of corrupt practises at both government level, large tax dodging corporations and by corrupt SMEs that bend the rules to import goods at lower tarifs that have fecked over much of the British economy rather than the EU. Glad you're looking to the upside of all new and inventive ways to feck us over once again once you've got the Brexit you wanted.
That contrary to the poster's insistence that the EU was responsible for the changes in the UK economy he trumpeted, a stronger probable cause for those changes would be the domestic political confrontation of those issues around labour laws.
I am citing France as an example of an EU country which has not confronted those issues and by doing so I am attempting to evidence the point that the EU did not bring the changes to the UK economy the poster ascribed to it.
I refer you to the French election thread where you have posted on several occasions on those outstanding issues you are hoping Macron can deal with all of which will be resisted by Unions the left and by French people being French, god bless them.
" Emmanuel Macron’s government has revealed a “major and ambitious” transformation of France’s complex labour laws aimed at tackling mass unemployment and making the country more competitive in the global market.
French unions gave a mixed but mostly “disappointed” response to the reforms, which will reduce their influence at company level, make it easier to hire and fire, and end the jobs-for-life culture French ministers say is a brake on economic growth.
...
Decrees are a rarely used constitutional device that enable the government to effect the changes without a parliamentary debate or vote.
...
Philippe added that Macron and his centrist government had been given a clear mandate by voters in France’s presidential and legislative elections to reform the Code du Travail."
@Don't Kill Bill . Now, I see what you mean.
Ironically, what you say is why I'm baffled by the anti EU sentiment because it shows you that the EU don't control national policies, it shows that we are all sovereign since it's easy to see that for example Germany, France and the UK took different path.
Also I said from the beginning that the EU is far from perfect and it's not the panacea but it's potentially a great tool for european countries because at term the common market should allow us to compete with the huge asian and american countries, the common currency allows us to have a more stable exchange rates, we are also in a stronger position "against" the huge companies and in particular the banks.
I understand that some will disagree with pretty much all the points because of sovereignty and national pride, I'm okay with that as long as people acknowledge that things aren't black or white.
Ironically, what you say is why I'm baffled by the anti EU sentiment because it shows you that the EU don't control national policies, it shows that we are all sovereign since it's easy to see that for example Germany, France and the UK took different path.
Also I said from the beginning that the EU is far from perfect and it's not the panacea but it's potentially a great tool for european countries because at term the common market should allow us to compete with the huge asian and american countries, the common currency allows us to have a more stable exchange rates, we are also in a stronger position "against" the huge companies and in particular the banks.
I understand that some will disagree with pretty much all the points because of sovereignty and national pride, I'm okay with that as long as people acknowledge that things aren't black or white.
Huh ??
Run that past me again, please.
Legally speaking you are still in breach of the corrupt practices act and could be successfully prosecuted for the fraud of your 3rd party agent in Turkey even if you were unaware of it since it is your duty of care to ensure no corruption is carried out on your behalf knowingly or unknowingly.
No corruption is carried out on our behalf. Or behalf of the Kenyan growers.
The Turkish people are NOT our agent. The Kenyan growers are nothing to do with us. Both are very occasional customers of ours and solely for the seperate transportation of products from Kenya to Turkey and for the transportation of products from Turkey to the EU. That and nothing else.
And they are a supplier to major UK supermarkets and wholesalers - who are happy to put the products on their shelves cheaper than if they are required to charge YOU 22% Tariffs over and above the ' real ' cost of these products.
The Turks defraud the EU - not me, not even you, because if the stupid EU insist on imposing 22% Tariffs if the goods arrive directly into the EU from Kenya, and 0% if they arrive into the EU from Turkey without adequate policing and and the lack of border controls thanks to Schengen, ,then corruption and fraud will always exist.
Fraud has always been a problem within the EU and always will be because of the way it is structured and operates. It is not the problem that Paul mentioned with the UK Customs - if 40 tonnes of fruit and veg have arrived in the UK after travelling by road through Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia, Austria, Germany, Holland, Belgium and France without appropriate checks and controls by those countries, is the whole EU then dependent on the UK CUstoms to cover their arses ?
Morally you're no better than the likes of Cameron circumventing the EU regulations on steel imports to allow his Chinese mates to dump subgrade alloys in the UK and feck Port Talbot. It's these sort of corrupt practises at both government level, large tax dodging corporations and by corrupt SMEs that bend the rules to import goods at lower tarifs that have fecked over much of the British economy rather than the EU. Glad you're looking to the upside of all new and inventive ways to feck us over once again once you've got the Brexit you wanted.[/QUOTE]
Our company circumvents no EU, Kenyan, Turkish or UK Legislation - let's get that absoultely clear before you spout off.
You quite obviously haven't read ALL my posts the past year or so - I am anti-EU, not pro-Brexit. Understand the difference ??
And I'd love to feck you over, personally, after a post like that, but the EU do it far better than we can, so I'll continue to leave it them.
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Yes, as things stands and because EU countries don't want an actual EU customs force, every country rely on the other to cover its arse. It's a cooperation.
is the whole EU then dependent on the UK CUstoms to cover their arses ?
Maybe some of the others might actually get off their arses instead of relying solely on the UK.
They don't rely on the UK and stop being stupid it's not cute when you are grown ass man.
So why are people arguing that its solely because of being in the eu that uk economy turned around from the 80s? It should have been the magic bullet in that case but it isnt. This thread is full of flip flop arguments.