Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[fcbforever]

I would like the UK to set up a new trading group........

Free Trade
Every country can protect a product yet they cannot sell it overseas just for the home market - prevents dumping.
No country can block another country joining on just self interest (Spain and Catalonia, for example)

What do you think punters?

Nice theory, difficult to set up. This isn't some computer game. What is for example if Germany would protect it's car lighting industry. Fine you would say, they can't export car lights then. But...what about finished cars with lighting then?

This wouldn't be free trade, just an endless fight.

 

[Full bodied red]

So, supply chains aren set for year to come, the EU is way close than any other market and breaking into a market you aren't established in yet is hard and expensive.



I meant that, and no I didn't make your point here. Because you fail to understand there's a fundamental difference between working for a company and being part of an international agreement, that's why I said your equivalency is flawed from the beginning. Your work for the company was agreed upon and helped the company going forwards (hopefully anyway) so it was able to pay future bills. So that's where you kinda can make a connection, but it doesn't really fit. You paid with your work so to say until an agreed point, then you left. The EU agreed to "work" with the EU on certain matters and haven't yet fullfilled those obligations.

The UK isn't an employee of the EU though, it's more of a business partner. If you are agreeing to work with another company, you are making a contract and you are agreeing on certain terms and usually a date or goal for until this cooperation will last. Let's take, for example, Opel and GM. They recently splitted, but GM is still honoring agreements that were made priorly, like for example, the provision of engines and gearboxes etc. for cars which entered production before the two companies split up. If they wouldn't, they would be taken to court (and lose). This is exactly what the EU is expecting the UK to do. These Admin employees the EU is expecting the UK to contribute to their pensions too aren't "EU admin employees". Well they are, but they are everyones employees in the EU and thus, also the UK's employees up until the very day they leave. fecking pay for them. It's like you buying a holiday home with some friends, you all agreeing to pay the loan for it until it's done, and then leaving the agreement halfway saying "nah can't be bothered anymore, won't pay". I guess they would be pretty pissed.

Complete, utter bollocks.

You at Oktoberfest or something ?

The UK has given - net - approximately £250 billion to the EU. Not as much as Germany, of course, but if you reckon that that hasn't contributed to the growth and success of the EU, then it's fairly obvious why so many people in the UK have decided enough's enough.

The UK or anyone else can leave the EU whenever it wants - there is no ' halfway ' through membership. No country signs up for 25 years or whatever - no fixed term - and the UK isn't part of a group of friends buying a holiday house together.

What bullshit term did you call it - equivalency ?

Your example is stupid. Try again.

And the itemised bill ? Can and will the EU prepare and present one or not - just asking ?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

By business, I think you mean the City Institutions rather than SMEs that were behind Remain.

I'll think you'll find it's anyone who trades

 

[fcbforever]

Complete, utter bollocks.

You at Oktoberfest or something ?

The UK has given - net - approximately £250 billion to the EU. Not as much as Germany, of course, but if you reckon that that hasn't contributed to the growth and success of the EU, then it's fairly obvious why so many people in the UK have decided enough's enough.

The UK or anyone else can leave the EU whenever it wants - there is no ' halfway ' through membership. No country signs up for 25 years or whatever - no fixed term - and the UK isn't part of a group of friends buying a holiday house together.

What bullshit term did you call it - equivalency ?

Your example is stupid. Try again.

And the itemised bill ? Can and will the EU prepare and present one or not - just asking ?

There's no halfway for membership, that's right. But you have to pay what you have agreed up to that point. So, pensions for example. Not for anyone who willstart working after the UK left, but their fair share of people already getting pensions, for example. Projects are another thing: some of those are rather long term, mostly related to infrastructure. You agreed to pay you share, pay it. Not for new ones, obviously, but for ones running. That's what the EU expects and that is what my example was about. The net numbers nobody gives a shit about here, completely and utterly irrelevant. If it was the other way round, I would think the UK would also expect to continue to pay for things the EU has agreed on to pay. To further elaborate my example: pay for the house alread bought, but nobody expects you to pay for a new one being bought in the future.

My example isn't stupid, you just don't like how the world works. Will there be a bill? I guess there willm although not at this point. And a lot of things will be a bit...dumbed down, especially the pension thing. Because doing the math for every single EU employee up until the point where the UK left would be a bit complicated. It's easy for everyone who's already retired, but for someone who started working two years ago and might continue for another 40? Seeing the current numbers, I guess both parties will settle at around 40 billion €.

 

[Full bodied red]

"I've lived most of my life and have nothing to lose by the UK leaving the EU, young people should be glad to have a career of flipping burgers at McDonald's, ungrateful remoaners!"

Sorry but how out of touch with reality are you? I just had to laugh at that. There's not much a person can learn about career progression in a job that most definitely is a job and not a career. I agree there are plenty of pointless degrees out there and work experience is, in my opinion, more valuable than a fresh graduate's newly printed first certificate (even in the more important degrees) but leaving the EU is only going to damage young people's career chances, not enhance them. The door to 26 other countries filled with opportunity slams shut for them in the wake of Brexit and the loss of freedom of movement. But of course why should that matter to you? It's not for you to worry about that any more, you aren't at the start of your career.

There are plenty of remain people who believe Britain is capable of making a success of itself in the 21st century, both in and out of the EU but the bottom line is any success in the EU would be stronger than outside of it.

You talk about Britain not being a 'prestigious country', I find it baffling. The immigrants that most Brexiters seem to despise would not be coming here if Britain weren't a prestigious country.

Give me a Lithuanian or Slovakian or Bulgarian who can speak Portuguese or French, and I'll give you a thousand Lithuanians or Slovakians or Croations who can speak English.

That's why so many other Europeans end up in the UK - if you can speak the language, you're far more likely to get a decently paid job or be succesful in the cash economy whichever country you choose to move to.

English is the international language of most of the world's young people, so it's natural they see the UK as a better opportunity to get a better job, money and overall life than their own county.

 

[4bars]

Give me a Lithuanian or Slovakian or Bulgarian who can speak Portuguese or French, and I'll give you a thousand Lithuanians or Slovakians or Croations who can speak English.

That's why so many other Europeans end up in the UK - if you can speak the language, you're far more likely to get a decently paid job or be succesful in the cash economy whichever country you choose to move to.

English is the international language of most of the world's young people, so it's natural they see the UK as a better opportunity to get a better job, money and overall life than their own county.

This point is true. But the prestige is there as a solid economy with opportunities + the salaries (that will go away with the drop of the pounds. I am saying this as a Immigrant that lived in 8 countries, 1 Scotland. Though I did it following my girlfriend. Britain never appeal me for many reasons

Also, if it would be language alone and not the other 2 reasons, immigrants could go to Malta or Ireland for example

 

[I Believe]

And yes, they can still travel there. But working and studying will just become harder, that's how it is

So I was wrong was I, or was it you telling porkies?

 

[I Believe]

by the way you'll be going face to face a lot with the EU

Oh so the EU will still want to trade with us will they? And there's me judging by lots of posts on here, yours included, that the EU will want nothing to do with us after we've left?
Soon changed your tune Paul, or perhaps you were you holding the hymn sheet upside down?

 

[Kentonio]

I work with loads of non eu passport holders, why will the door be shut for British but not them? Its a non issue.

For non-EU people it's considerably more time consuming and expensive, and then they get the fun of things like queuing for hours every few months to renew their permits and suchlike, something many of my non-EU friends 'enjoy' at the moment. Oh and not to mention the limitations such as working visa conditions, stricter job offer requirements and the rest.

So no it won't be impossible, just expensive and annoying, and likely to have the main effect of pushing poorer youngsters away from the opportunity they can currently actually enjoy and enrich their lives with.

It's almost like there was a reason the young massively voted in favour of remain isn't it.

 

[Kentonio]

Oh so the EU will still want to trade with us will they? And there's me judging by lots of posts on here, yours included, that the EU will want nothing to do with us after we've left?
Soon changed your tune Paul, or perhaps you were you holding the hymn sheet upside down?

Oh give over ffs, no-one thinks the EU won't want anything to do with us. That's not the same as pointing out the delusion behind the idea that they'll roll over and give us anything we want.

 

[I Believe]

"I've lived most of my life and have nothing to lose by the UK leaving the EU, young people should be glad to have a career of flipping burgers at McDonald's, ungrateful remoaners!"

Is this what you deduced from my post?

Obviously you've been listening to Donald Trump and his obsession with Fake News, 'if you don't like what's said, then write your own version', are you by any chance hoping to become an author, of books on 'fairy tales', it could well be the career for you young man!

The 'flipping burgers at McDonalds' comment was intended to signify 'starting at the bottom and working your way up' clearly that passed over your wonderful intellect.

I agree there are plenty of pointless degrees out there and work experience is, in my opinion, more valuable than a fresh graduate's newly printed first certificate (even in the more important degrees) but leaving the EU is only going to damage young people's career chances, not enhance them.

Yes those pointless degrees are 'racking up' large personal debts for many young people, but that would change if we stayed in the EU would it?

Leaving the EU will at worst be neutral in its effect on damaging young peoples chances, thousand of bright young students from all over Europe come to Britain because of the poor prospects in their own countries, there is large scale unemployment in many EU countries especially the Southern countries. These students will be welcomed after Brexit, in fact even more might be encouraged to come and there will be absolutely nothing to stop British students studying and working in the EU, I'm sure many countries in the EU would welcome people with the right skills and fluent in the business language of the EU (of course when we're gone they may change it!)

Yes, I am an old man and occasionally these days get a bit distracted, but I'm not bitter and as a grandfather I am not trying to undermine the chances of anyone, young or old. The EU is increasingly becoming a moribund organisation, (witness the EU's dilemma of how to deal with the State sponsored violence in Catalonia) unable and for the most part unwilling to reform itself from within. Britain did not vote, or was even asked, to join the EU, or indeed the forerunner the EEC, we did however, I did, vote to join the common market and if the EU reverts back to that goal we may have a chance of saving it. Otherwise whilst we have our own independent currency and are not or ever likely to join the euro-zone and whilst we keep asking for opt-outs and are supposed to receive rebates (which indicate we paid too much to start with), then we are better off out of a club that's change its direction and which if we stay in it, we will perpetually be in the second division of the EU, without any chance of promotion.

 

[I Believe]

no-one thinks the EU won't want anything to do with us

Really, I think you ought to read some of these posts!

By the way, if you want to get a reply from me in future, please leave out the 'ffs' comments, it is really not necessary

 

[Full bodied red]

Oh give over ffs, no-one thinks the EU won't want anything to do with us. That's not the same as pointing out the delusion behind the idea that they'll roll over and give us anything we want.

My own opinion is that the EU will give the UK whatever suits the EU.

This will be, almost certainly, a mini Trade Agreement with an offer from the EU of special deals for cars, food, alcohol, plants and flowers, plant & equipment & machinery, home appliances and electronics, etc....All the things that the EU sends to the UK already, and which, unfortunately, is virtually all one way traffic.

Suits the EU, of course, much more than Corporate UK, but also small or no tariffs on those items won't impact too much on UK residents who already spend a lot of their household budget on precisely those things.

Almost a win-win for the EU and UK consumers - the EU continues to trade tariff free with the UK, maintains its current levels of exports and market share, and UK consumers won't suddenly have the prices of these things increased by Import Tariffs and Duties and the consequent add on to inflation.

What the UK's response will be is anyone's guess right now, but I'd take an offer like that as it wouldn't impact too greatly on everyday life for anyone in Europe except those hell bent on entering the UK to live or UK citizens desperately wanting to continue to live inside the EU.

 

[Bury Red]

Leaving the EU will at worst be neutral in its effect on damaging young peoples chances, thousand of bright young students from all over Europe come to Britain because of the poor prospects in their own countries, there is large scale unemployment in many EU countries especially the Southern countries. These students will be welcomed after Brexit, in fact even more might be encouraged to come and there will be absolutely nothing to stop British students studying and working in the EU, I'm sure many countries in the EU would welcome people with the right skills and fluent in the business language of the EU (of course when we're gone they may change it!)

Are you on a wind up or do you genuinely believe the drivel you come out with?

What Brexit will mean for english, welsh & NI students is that they will be stuck with a University education in our Universities complete with £9k+ tuition fees per year gaining interest at 4-5% over the basic lending rate. Any option to study elsewhere will be at the discretion of the foreign Uni and will be at their full tuition rates although those would still be cheaper than the UK ones.

Leaving or remaining won't drastically affect the poor sods already lumbered with student loans however their reduced salaries and career prospects as a knock on effect of Brexit will certainly make it harder for them to ever pay them off as they flip their burgers.

These foreign bright young things you talk so fondly of will still be welcomed in their droves post Brexit I am sure (we all know how much you Brexiters love a foreigner) although why they would pick the UK once their fees increase from their presently subsidised levels similar to their home institutions to rise to full foreign fees typically somewhere between £12k and £35k. I suspect the number of EU students enrolling in the UK will plummet, heading instead to Ireland if it's English language that matters or France or Germany otherwise. As a result the UK institutions will struggle even further for funding and in such instances they usually respond by flogging overpriced paid places to students from lower grade Unis in India or Africa who have no chance of passing, who will hinder the students around them but who have parents with deep pockets who still see some prestige in their kids attending a UK Uni.

Post Brexit once freedom of movement ends we will be kicked out of the ERASMUS scheme (just as Switzerland were in 2015) making our students ineligible for the shorter EU sandwich courses as part of their normal degree, a scheme I graduated from over 25 years ago which has led to me working all over the world for French and multinational companies. Similarly the millions of European students who took ERASMUS modules in the UK and learned English helping to make it the lingua france of European business will be blocked from entering so the next generation will instead be learning German, French, Spanish or Italian instead.

 

[I Believe]

More likely, the EU have no idea what the post-BREXIT costs are to be picked up by the UK, so are just playing poker.

Very true, the EU has little idea of most of its true costs, otherwise why would they go on sanctioning the movement of the commission and parliament between Strasborg and Brussels, which is a complete waste of time and money! Perhaps they do know, but since independent audits are not carried out, only those by the EU's own Court of Auditors, they cannot be sure?

The EU's poker hand is quite simple we know what it is, ever card is a big stick, to beat us with if we don't do exactly what they say and also be seen to lap up our punishment with our traditional 'stiff upper lip'..."Head up, back straight and bags of swank" is what they are hoping for!

 

[I Believe]

Any option to study elsewhere will be at the discretion of the foreign Uni and will be at their full tuition rates although those would still be cheaper than the UK ones

So you are expecting these foreign Universities will turn away our students will they? Even if as you predict the tuition costs will be less than in Britain? If that is the case I would imagine droves of British Students will be heading over to the EU, even if they have to get visas.
However if I've understood you correctly by Britain leaving the EU, all EU Universities will bar British students as a punishment... don't think its me whose talking drivel son!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Oh so the EU will still want to trade with us will they? And there's me judging by lots of posts on here, yours included, that the EU will want nothing to do with us after we've left?
Soon changed your tune Paul, or perhaps you were you holding the hymn sheet upside down?

It's the Brexiters who are claiming the EU is the big bully - of course there will be trade between the two, just that it won't be on the UK's terms. Either the UK continues to pays its subs and accepts the 4 freedoms and the trade is tariff free or it reverts to WTO rules with tariffs eventually after the transitional period, if there is one, which gives the UK time to sort out its WTO membership ( two years won't be enough).

If you will notice I have not changed my opinion one iota since the beginning of this.

 

[fcbforever]

So you are expecting these foreign Universities will turn away our students will they? Even if as you predict the tuition costs will be less than in Britain? If that is the case I would imagine droves of British Students will be heading over to the EU, even if they have to get visas.
However if I've understood you correctly by Britain leaving the EU, all EU Universities will bar British students as a punishment... don't think its me whose talking drivel son!

They won't turn all of them away, but some, as they will fall under the non-EU quotas. Simple as that. And this isn't about people full-time studying somewhere else mostly, it's usually a few semesters to up your CV and broaden your horizon. This will become way harder since the U.K. wouldn't participate in Erasmus any longer.

 

[Bury Red]

So you are expecting these foreign Universities will turn away our students will they? Even if as you predict the tuition costs will be less than in Britain? If that is the case I would imagine droves of British Students will be heading over to the EU, even if they have to get visas.
However if I've understood you correctly by Britain leaving the EU, all EU Universities will bar British students as a punishment... don't think its me whose talking drivel son!

Without the EU assistance they presently receive and a guarantee that they will only pay the same fees as local EU students any British student wishing to study in a European Uni would need to pay full fees, those fees might be lower than those at home in the UK which may tempt some but most would fail to qualify on language grounds once the EU remove the assistance and encouragement they presently give through programmes like ERASMUS to encourage students to leave their comfort zone. Add in visa costs and the increased cost of living they will face as the pound slumps against the Euro and I doubt it will attract many at all, Brits were already pretty woeful at taking up their places in European courses as it was.

Where did I say EU universities would ban British students? I pointed out that our membership of ERASMUS (the European Region Action Scheme for the Mobility of University Students) would be invalidated once we stop freedom of movement removing the easiest route into European Unis and the funding that came with it.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Erasmus was probably the best year of my life. I truly feel sorry for the young Brits who may not get to do it because of their old twits.

 

[Bury Red]

Erasmus was probably the best year of my life. I truly feel sorry for the young Brits who may not get to do it because of their old twits.

Likewise. The old twit in our family finally accepted that I was going to a French Uni but only on the promise that I didn't speak to any of them Frenchies whilst I was over there. The old boy would be 115 if he was still with us, seems bizarre that there's still people around with even more archaic views than him.

 

[The Outsider]

Nice theory, difficult to set up. This isn't some computer game. What is for example if Germany would protect it's car lighting industry. Fine you would say, they can't export car lights then. But...what about finished cars with lighting then?

This wouldn't be free trade, just an endless fight.

I take your point yet surely this is where rules would come in, if for example 80% was not protected then the car could be sold aboard without tariffs.

Re the endless fights, that is the nature of the Beast - Doha never reached agreement and the EU CAP policy.

 

[fcbforever]

Without the EU assistance they presently receive and a guarantee that they will only pay the same fees as local EU students any British student wishing to study in a European Uni would need to pay full fees, those fees might be lower than those at home in the UK which may tempt some but most would fail to qualify on language grounds once the EU remove the assistance and encouragement they presently give through programmes like ERASMUS to encourage students to leave their comfort zone. Add in visa costs and the increased cost of living they will face as the pound slumps against the Euro and I doubt it will attract many at all, Brits were already pretty woeful at taking up their places in European courses as it was.

Where did I say EU universities would ban British students? I pointed out that our membership of ERASMUS (the European Region Action Scheme for the Mobility of University Students) would be invalidated once we stop freedom of movement removing the easiest route into European Unis and the funding that came with it.

Germany will likely introduce tuition fees especially for non-EU residents now, as quite a lot of people are pissed that Chinese and Americans come here to flee their high-cost education, while there's almost zero chance they are staying here to give something back to the country who paid for theirs. It's something I support and should absolutely also be in place for the UK after they have left, should they not accept FOM. Sorry, brits.

 

[I Believe]

woeful at taking up their places in European courses as it was.

Thanks, that was what I was after... its all a red herring about British student travel/study in Europe being fatally undermined by Brexit.

I understand that some, like yourself were persuaded to leave their comfort zone and have benefitted from the Erasmus projects, but I suspect Britain will find a way to allow those who want to, to continue. I was told some time back that we (Britain) were the major contributor to this project, don't know if that was true, or if it that is still the case, any thoughts?

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

What do people mean by pointless degrees? Can we render any degree that is not directly vocational (Dentistry, Medicine, etc) pointless? Because there are a hell of a lot of graduates out there with niche degrees whom go directly into professional careers.

I'd say the reputation of the institution attended is the most important thing.

The 'flipping burgers at McDonalds' comment was intended to signify 'starting at the bottom and working your way up' clearly that passed over your wonderful intellect.

In the contemporary world, anybody whose career simply starts with 'flipping burgers at McDonalds' will find it extremely difficult to ever progress into a meaningful career.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

I almost can't believe what I'm reading. Amazing that people still hold onto these imperialist dreams from centuries ago.

 

[I Believe]

If you will notice I have not changed my opinion one iota since the beginning of this

Yes of course Paul, couldn't resist it, just a bit of leg-pulling!

I am quite happy to confirm you have consistently and obstinately stuck to your opinions, albeit they are somewhat flawed!

 

[4bars]

Germany will likely introduce tuition fees especially for non-EU residents now, as quite a lot of people are pissed that Chinese and Americans come here to flee their high-cost education, while there's almost zero chance they are staying here to give something back to the country who paid for theirs. It's something I support and should absolutely also be in place for the UK after they have left, should they not accept FOM. Sorry, brits.

Is the same in Spain. Lots of Americans with medical conditions goes there as is one of the best healthcares in the world (and free) and they, for example overexert to provoke a heart attack to have the bypass that need so badly (very risky but with they healthcare would come sooner or later) and they are attended and they pay nada,

Also there are other tricks like fake contracts to enter the health care system to get transplants (Spain is leader in organ donations) by the face. And so on.

I agree in contribute more or less and be a bit benefited or less. That is what happens in the Union. But contributing nothing is not fair, so great that people comes from anywhere, uses services, etc...but not by the face, some fees should apply, specially for the ones that are wealthy enough to travel and spend 3/4 years studying (not speaking about less privileged people).

 

[Bury Red]

Thanks, that was what I was after... its all a red herring about British student travel/study in Europe being fatally undermined by Brexit.

I understand that some, like yourself were persuaded to leave their comfort zone and have benefitted from the Erasmus projects, but I suspect Britain will find a way to allow those who want to, to continue. I was told some time back that we (Britain) were the major contributor to this project, don't know if that was true, or if it that is still the case, any thoughts?

No it's not a red herring, we are as a nation lazy and inept when it comes to picking up other languages and as a result have used ERASMUS less than students from other nations but that should encourage us to push more out of their comfort zones rather than dumping on the idea lest our nation grows more stupid and intolerant in its old age.

Pray tell how Britain will find a way to participate in a scheme we will be ineligible for once we Brexit? Who told you that the UK were overpaying for the scheme? Some xenophobic old pillock down the Conservative club, I'd guess. If anything the UK are probably the largest beneficiary of the ERASMUS scheme as our Universities are horribly overpriced and there are far, far more EU students studying in UK institutions with the EU paying their fees than vice versa. (0.5% of UK students take part vs over 1% of all other EU students).

 

[Full bodied red]

Erasmus was probably the best year of my life. I truly feel sorry for the young Brits who may not get to do it because of their old twits.

Glad you enjoyed it.

But don't forget that it was ' The Old Twits ' who paid for it

 

[Bury Red]

Glad you enjoyed it.

But don't forget that it was ' The Old Twits ' who paid for it

As they 'kin should, we're expected to pay for their cnutting pensions

 

[fcbforever]

No it's not a red herring, we are as a nation lazy and inept when it comes to picking up other languages and as a result have used ERASMUS less than students from other nations but that should encourage us to push more out of their comfort zones rather than dumping on the idea lest our nation grows more stupid and intolerant in its old age.

Pray tell how Britain will find a way to participate in a scheme we will be ineligible for once we Brexit? Who told you that the UK were overpaying for the scheme? Some xenophobic old pillock down the Conservative club, I'd guess. If anything the UK are probably the largest beneficiary of the ERASMUS scheme as our Universities are horribly overpriced and there are far, far more EU students studying in UK institutions with the EU paying their fees than vice versa.

The whole thinking behind ERASMUS is basically that it should be ideally a zero sum equation. Everyone get's just as much out of it as he "pays" into it. Between Germany and Britain, for example: yes, GB has to pay (quite indirectly) for the laughable tuition fees English Universities are going for, but the Universities also spare money because students go abroad and enjoy living of other taxpayers money while getting further education. I would say it is the least controversial of all EU projects, ever.

I just remembered something else by the way: Britain would be thrown out of the ECTS program associated with ERASMUS, so no automatical recognition of degrees and and transferable archievements between country.

Basically, if today you study abroad, every course you did so far is scored with ECTS points, and the other university is also using ECTS points. Bachelors require 180 ECTS; master degress 120. So there's no long battles about which stuff the other university will actually recognize as being done, they will just do it. You are saving huge amounts of studytime because of that. Bye bye to that as well GB!

 

[I Believe]

In the contemporary world, anybody whose career simply starts with 'flipping burgers at McDonalds' will find it extremely difficult to ever progress into a meaningful career.

Oh well that's put paid to a hell of a lot of people's dreams hasn't it?

I personally know two people, both respected micro-biologists ,one of whom now teaches at a prominent University, who both started their working lives at McDonalds and both assure me they did their share of flipping burgers and that was all achieved in the 21st Century.

meaningful career indeed!

I almost can't believe what I'm reading. Amazing that people still hold onto these imperialist dreams from centuries ago.

Not dreams son, history... this really happened!

As I say, we won't be able to use 'gun boats' now ... suppose it did speed up negotiations though!

 

[The Outsider]

Growing schism in the EU, Macron wants more integration the EEs don't:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...paign=headline&cmpId=yhoo.headline&yptr=yahoo

 

[4bars]

My best years were 1 year of ERASMUS and 3 years travelling and working around the world. Crippling free movement it would be sad, very sad. Though is not that brittish will not find solutions. Is not a third world country

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Oh well that's put paid to a hell of a lot of people's dreams hasn't it?

I personally know two people, both respected micro-biologists ,one of whom now teaches at a prominent University, who both started their working lives at McDonalds and both assure me they did their share of flipping burgers and that was all achieved in the 21st Century.

And I'm sure at no point was working in McDonalds the primary pursuit/end game in their lives.

Not dreams son, history... this really happened!

As I say, we won't be able to use 'gun boats' now ... suppose it did speeded up negotiations though!

Yeah, maybe we should try and re-establish the empire.

 

[I Believe]

we are as a nation lazy and inept when it comes to picking up other languages

Agreed, these youngsters of today will have to shape up when Brexit comes, get your full education now son, especially in modern foreign languages!

Pray tell how Britain will find a way to participate in a scheme we will be ineligible for once we Brexit

Money son, 'palms will be greased', legally of course, as I suspect Davis is doing this very minute, the practice is very European in origin!

Who told you that the UK were overpaying for the scheme?

You really need to address your reading comprehension son, I didn't say over paying I said major contributor. I suppose that was because not as many Brits took it up as expected, then you could argue we were overpaying!
Seems you may have got there in the end!

Some xenophobic old pillock down the Conservative club

Only ever been in a Conservative club, twice, once to help relay the snooker table and a second time helping to deliver an upright piano, there were no old pillock's, xenophobic or otherwise present... smart looking barmaid though, almost dropped the piano taking a gander!

 

[I Believe]

And I'm sure at no point was working in McDonalds the primary pursuit/end game in their lives.

Did you work that out all on your own?

I said they 'started' their working lives at McDonalds, you really need to pay attention!

Yeah, maybe we should try and re-establish the empire.

Heavens no! we can't afford to do that again, oh no, once was enough, we are still being blamed for half the ills of the world as it is!

 

[I Believe]

no automatical recognition of degrees and and transferable archievements between country.

Oh dear, bet the Russell Group of Universities will be really worried about that!

 

[Stanley Road]

For non-EU people it's considerably more time consuming and expensive, and then they get the fun of things like queuing for hours every few months to renew their permits and suchlike, something many of my non-EU friends 'enjoy' at the moment. Oh and not to mention the limitations such as working visa conditions, stricter job offer requirements and the rest.

So no it won't be impossible, just expensive and annoying, and likely to have the main effect of pushing poorer youngsters away from the opportunity they can currently actually enjoy and enrich their lives with.

It's almost like there was a reason the young massively voted in favour of remain isn't it.

Yep, 18 years ago I had to the same every 3 months, it really isn't a big deal trust me.

On top of that they all get the 30% tax ruling which I don't get.

 

[Full bodied red]

As they 'kin should, we're expected to pay for their cnutting pensions

Kinnell....Wot you says, brov....

Your degree was obviously in something like ' Agressivity and Swearing '....Probably only got a Desmond, though - you know, a 2.2....Geddit, brov ??

Anyway, seeing as everyone's ranting on about universities and ERASMUS today, I'm going to post later about the ' other ' side of Erasmus - from the point of view of the Universities.

Just so happens our daughter is a Senior Lecturer / Senior Researcher ( BA, MA , PHD and all that ) at a fairly good Uni in the UK and a visiting Lecturer at an even better one in the USA. Also did a year's ERASMUS herself in 2000 and is now lecturing ERASMUS students as well as her ' normal ' UK and Foreign students who've actually paid for the 12 months rather than relying on ' The Old Twits ' to foot the bill.

I'll call her later and ask her opinion of the values / benefits / downsides of ERASMUS, although from what she's said in the past about it, some of you guys might not like to hear it.