Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Full bodied red said:
2019....2025....2035....2050....??

The UK will leave in 2019. That is certain.

How long before the UK finally disentangles itself from the EU depends entirely on the EU - so maybe 2019 if they feel they don't need the UK any more, or maybe 2050 if they find out they need the UK's market and consumers to avoid their own repercussions of ' NO deal is better than a bad deal '

As for the Irish border problem - why not leave it to the two Irelands to sort it out between themselves, or is that too obvious ?
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You've been listening to Farage too much.

See we're still in the EU needs the Uk more than the other way round territory.
The UK will leave in name only in 2019 or fall off the cliff, up to the Uk what they want.

Not only is Northern Ireland part of the UK and is the Uk government's responsibility but please remember that the UK have caused this problem, no-one else, not the EU and not Ireland.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I'm perfectly relaxed
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Mmm... me thinks you protests too much, it doesn't seem that way from your posts Paul. Bexit is an itch you shouldn't scratch, but perhaps you can't help it?

Paul the Wolf said:
see Davis didn't bother going to Brussels today. Waiting for the next episode of the farce
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Yes, he's waiting for the EU's next set of Fantasy figures, probably thinks he might as well will wait until they appear on his phone and then text his by now favourite reply saying 'show me how you got to that figure'!

Paul the Wolf said:
We wait and we wait, what brilliant idea is he going to come up with next
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No, think its the EU's turn to blink, sorry 'think' 'now! You know, 'back and forth', 'to and fro', 'your turn, my turn', etc.

Paul the Wolf said:
Surely a Brexiteer must have a solution to the Irish border problem,
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The Irish Border problem will only be solved when there is a United Ireland and that looks to be even further away than ever, with no Stormont sitting and the Irish State wondering where its going to place all the immigrants Frau Merkel is going to insist they take, can't see much headway on that one at all!

Paul the Wolf said:
The Uk leaves the EU in name only in 2019 - in an earlier thread I suggested 2025 when they actually leave, I think that may now be too optimistic.
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Although it pains me to say it Paul, you maybe nearer than you think to how the actual situation might play out.

As I've mentioned in another recent post, it will IMO all come down to the 'moneymen' getting their 'soft-landing' and how and when Theresa will fall on her sword? For not only is Brexit the issue now, its also the whole future of the Conservative party and how much, if there is to be a GE as a result, 'comrade' Jeremy is prepared to moderate some of his 'nationalise everything' stance.
Everything is on a knife edge, the EU have to close down the 'lets kick Britain' rhetoric, the divorce bill has to be itemised and in public, Farage has to be kept busy abroad (See Trump could come in useful after all!) Jeremy after looking semi-electable, has to now grasp the nettle, ditch some of the dogma on Nationalisation, even if it means falling out with the Greens and be prepared to promote some other more acceptable faces in his party, in order to calm the children and not frighten the horses in the rural shires.

The Scots Nationalist will have to stay north of the border and above all quiet, hard for Ms Sturgeon, but do-able if they try! Wales will go back to Labour if the above happens, the big problem will be as you've said above, the Irish Border! However since this has been a problem for well over a century now, some way, convoluted maybe, will be found, or it will be kicked into the long grass, once again. (Probably as Spain looks to do with Catalonia!).

Its a sort of 'Russian roulette' but with only one chamber in the gun empty! It goes without saying that is the one we have to find, on the first spin, hopefully!
 
Full bodied red said:
2019....2025....2035....2050....??

The UK will leave in 2019. That is certain.

How long before the UK finally disentangles itself from the EU depends entirely on the EU - so maybe 2019 if they feel they don't need the UK any more, or maybe 2050 if they find out they need the UK's market and consumers to avoid their own repercussions of ' NO deal is better than a bad deal '

As for the Irish border problem - why not leave it to the two Irelands to sort it out between themselves, or is that too obvious ?
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You don't see why the two Irelands have a problem that goes beyond themselves? You don't understand that their borders are also the UK and the EU borders?
 
I Believe said:
Then you have nothing to worry or be scared about, do you?

So, it's been a pointless exchange of posts really!
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I said is scary, not that I am scared. But yes, pointless like Brexit for the true reasons it was triggered
 
I Believe said:
Mmm... me thinks you protests too much, it doesn't seem that way from your posts Paul. Bexit is an itch you shouldn't scratch, but perhaps you can't help it?

Yes, he's waiting for the EU's next set of Fantasy figures, probably thinks he might as well will wait until they appear on his phone and then text his by now favourite reply saying 'show me how you got to that figure'!

No, think its the EU's turn to blink, sorry 'think' 'now! You know, 'back and forth', 'to and fro', 'your turn, my turn', etc.

The Irish Border problem will only be solved when there is a United Ireland and that looks to be even further away than ever, with no Stormont sitting and the Irish State wondering where its going to place all the immigrants Frau Merkel is going to insist they take, can't see much headway on that one at all!

Although it pains me to say it Paul, you maybe nearer than you think to how the actual situation might play out.

As I've mentioned in another recent post, it will IMO all come down to the 'moneymen' getting their 'soft-landing' and how and when Theresa will fall on her sword? For not only is Brexit the issue now, its also the whole future of the Conservative party and how much, if there is to be a GE as a result, 'comrade' Jeremy is prepared to moderate some of his 'nationalise everything' stance.
Everything is on a knife edge, the EU have to close down the 'lets kick Britain' rhetoric, the divorce bill has to be itemised and in public, Farage has to be kept busy abroad (See Trump could come in useful after all!) Jeremy after looking semi-electable, has to now grasp the nettle, ditch some of the dogma on Nationalisation, even if it means falling out with the Greens and be prepared to promote some other more acceptable faces in his party, in order to calm the children and not frighten the horses in the rural shires.

The Scots Nationalist will have to stay north of the border and above all quiet, hard for Ms Sturgeon, but do-able if they try! Wales will go back to Labour if the above happens, the big problem will be as you've said above, the Irish Border! However since this has been a problem for well over a century now, some way, convoluted maybe, will be found, or it will be kicked into the long grass, once again. (Probably as Spain looks to do with Catalonia!).

Its a sort of 'Russian roulette' but with only one chamber in the gun empty! It goes without saying that is the one we have to find, on the first spin, hopefully!
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Sorry , you're way off on the first one - Brexit is a ridiculous idea imo and am intrigued how it will be solved - it is also highly amusing from a detached point of view. Always think and act with your head, not emotionally.
Apart from anything else I'm like a dog with a bone, I'll not let go until the end and I fear this has got many years to run. I must admit I shouldn't have got involved in the first place but then again I would have missed all the fun.

What seems to worry Brexiters is that they have not been told personally how much the amount is - remember Theresa May said she did not want to reveal anything of the negotiations and the EU agreed not to reveal anything without both sides' agreement.

Until the Irish Border problem is solved, the talks are going nowhere, ergo....

May will be there as long as it suits the Tories, who replaces her eventually, no-one knows, as bad as she is , there is no person who is obviously better and that includes Corbyn.
Already had one GE since the referendum, as predicted. Could be a regular occurrence over the next few years.

Would guess that what's worrying the Tories the most is how do we explain this mess to the angry mob.

From the EU's point of view, the ideal situation would be for the Uk to leave , have no MEPs but continue to pay their subs , still have the 4 freedoms and get no rebates and trade goes on as before. At this moment it looks between a choice of that or a cliff-edge for the UK.
The EU would be called a bully but remember the EU needs the UK more, or do they..
 
The Outsider said:
I'm looking for work just now and a lot of investment banks are looking for process re-engineering as though they are going to split processes and move parts to Europe. Perhaps after the industry bigwigs say sorted, we will come out as I just can't see 27 countries most of which want money are never all going to agree with what we want!
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The problem is that uncertainty is going to carry on for some considerable time which is affecting banks, industry , etc , they don't know what to do. Imo money is not the most important issue here - out of three issues currently holding up the talks, money is the least important - but having said that the EU are not going to let the UK off the hook and can't be seen to let them off the hook. The amounts quoted by the press may seem large but are rather insignificant in the long term view.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Sorry , you're way off on the first one
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Sorry don't think so, you admit 'dog with a bone' etc! an itch you can't scratch, very annoying!

Paul the Wolf said:
What seems to worry Brexiters is that they have not been told personally how much the amount is
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Again sorry Paul, it would only worry brexiteers if the EU could come up with a figure that they can justify, then they could just say to Britain there it is £x amount owed, take it or leave it! However since we know they can't come up with a figure the game is still on, its still a negotiation, everything is still in play, they are kidding nobody!

Paul the Wolf said:
Until the Irish Border problem is solved, the talks are going nowhere, ergo....
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Sorry yet again Paul, everyone knows the Irish border problem won't be solved until there is no border and that is light years away, eons even! So either the Brexit talks finish now and we leave as planned 2019, or everyone continues to trundle on seeking other solutions to other problems that can be solved. The fact we are still talking, means the long grass has already been decided as the temporary 'park-up spot' for the Irish border issues.

Paul the Wolf said:
May will be there as long as it suits the Tories,
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What if Theresa herself decided to go, saying "you ungrateful swine... I'm off to walk the mountain trails in Switzerland"?

Of course she might try a John Major 'put up or shut up' speech, what response do you think she would get, for example would those two Europhiles Heseltine and Clarke crawl back under their stones, or do as they did when Maggie threatened to refuse to sign the EEC treaty and there by see us tumble out of the club, would they again be tempted to get out the long knives?

Paul the Wolf said:
there is no person who is obviously better and that includes Corbyn.
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What about VC the 'forgotten' man leading the Liberals, surely he is the most outwardly pro-EU in all our senior politicians, wouldn't he lead the charge against Brexit laden Theresa, or even Boris?

Paul the Wolf said:
Would guess that what's worrying the Tories the most is how do we explain this mess to the angry mob.
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Hah, hah.. after they faced down the Miners! Don't think so, do you? Seriously?

Paul the Wolf said:
From the EU's point of view, the ideal situation would be for the Uk to leave
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I would say Amen to that! no ifs, no buts, no maybe's, once free of each other we can talk sensibly... sorry, no ones about to believe that!
 
Dobba said:
Theresa May is absolutely fecking shite.
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Not half.

In one speech she says we must take control of the borders. At the same time, she insists that there must be no border controls on the only land border we have.

Thats idiocy.

So is saying she wants to stop all free movement in 2019 AND stay in the single market during a transition period.

You can't have single market without free movement, She has been told that since day one.

Not sure which is more concerning, that she is blatantly lying on issues of such importance, or that she actually believes what she says,
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Not half.

In one speech she says we must take control of the borders. At the same time, she insists that there must be no border controls on the only land border we have.

Thats idiocy.

So is saying she wants to stop all free movement in 2019 AND stay in the single market during a transition period.

You can't have single market without free movement, She has been told that since day one.

Not sure which is more concerning, that she is blatantly lying on issues of such importance, or that she actually believes what she says,
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Yeah, it's basic, basic stuff. The process itself is complex but that part is simple. It's clear she wants to appease Brexiteers who desire an end to free movement while doing as little as possible to disrupt our current predicament.
 
Full bodied red said:
2019....2025....2035....2050....??

The UK will leave in 2019. That is certain.

How long before the UK finally disentangles itself from the EU depends entirely on the EU - so maybe 2019 if they feel they don't need the UK any more, or maybe 2050 if they find out they need the UK's market and consumers to avoid their own repercussions of ' NO deal is better than a bad deal '

As for the Irish border problem - why not leave it to the two Irelands to sort it out between themselves, or is that too obvious ?
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Well NI remains part of the UK, the Republic remains part of the EU and the expressed attitude of the Rebublic's taoiseach towards the border issue is "the UK brought this problem about by voting for Brexit, it's up to them to come up with a workable solution". So no, shifting responsibility onto the two Irelands isn't going to work.
 
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I Believe said:
Sorry don't think so, you admit 'dog with a bone' etc! an itch you can't scratch, very annoying!



Again sorry Paul, it would only worry brexiteers if the EU could come up with a figure that they can justify, then they could just say to Britain there it is £x amount owed, take it or leave it! However since we know they can't come up with a figure the game is still on, its still a negotiation, everything is still in play, they are kidding nobody!



Sorry yet again Paul, everyone knows the Irish border problem won't be solved until there is no border and that is light years away, eons even! So either the Brexit talks finish now and we leave as planned 2019, or everyone continues to trundle on seeking other solutions to other problems that can be solved. The fact we are still talking, means the long grass has already been decided as the temporary 'park-up spot' for the Irish border issues.



What if Theresa herself decided to go, saying "you ungrateful swine... I'm off to walk the mountain trails in Switzerland"?

Of course she might try a John Major 'put up or shut up' speech, what response do you think she would get, for example would those two Europhiles Heseltine and Clarke crawl back under their stones, or do as they did when Maggie threatened to refuse to sign the EEC treaty and there by see us tumble out of the club, would they again be tempted to get out the long knives?



What about VC the 'forgotten' man leading the Liberals, surely he is the most outwardly pro-EU in all our senior politicians, wouldn't he lead the charge against Brexit laden Theresa, or even Boris?



Hah, hah.. after they faced down the Miners! Don't think so, do you? Seriously?



I would say Amen to that! no ifs, no buts, no maybe's, once free of each other we can talk sensibly... sorry, no ones about to believe that!
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Think what you like, I've no idea why, though.
Theresa May playing in goal for Chelsea would make more sense than Brexit but I'm sure I would throw in my penny worth of opinion in to the debate.

You think the EU haven't got a figure because they haven't told you, Ok fine - of course they'll be negotiations because the Uk want to pay as little as possible but Theresa's already said she will pay what the UK have committed to - problem is she has to tell the angry mob what that figure is.

The Irish border has to be solved, there is no alternative.

As I said May will be there as long as she is needed to take the blame - no-one else dares risk their future at the moment. Liberals are a non-entity.

As far as I remember there weren't 17.4million miners.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The Irish border has to be solved, there is no alternative.
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This can only be solved with the EU, the EU are adamant there needs to be a hard border, if we have Brexit.
This might be turned around to Ireland, then you need to join us out of the EU.
 
The Outsider said:
This can only be solved with the EU, the EU are adamant there needs to be a hard border, if we have Brexit.
This might be turned around to Ireland, then you need to join us out of the EU.
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No the solution has to come from the UK. They decided to leave, they can't just say right we're off , we don't know what to do but we leave you with the problem. They caused it, they have to sort it out.
Of course if FoM continues and the UK remains in the single market and the customs union then problem solved - I wonder what is going to happen....
 
The Outsider said:
This can only be solved with the EU, the EU are adamant there needs to be a hard border, if we have Brexit.
This might be turned around to Ireland, then you need to join us out of the EU.
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Like feck will that happen.

A push towards a United Ireland within the EU is more likely than the Republic willingly joining the UK on the outside.
 
My understanding is 80% of Ireland's trade is with the UK, that certainly gives us leverage.
 
The Outsider said:
This can only be solved with the EU, the EU are adamant there needs to be a hard border, if we have Brexit.
This might be turned around to Ireland, then you need to join us out of the EU.
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So it's the EU's fault, if you decided to leave? Is it the EU who claimed that they wanted to take back control of their borders? And how the EU are supposed to have an open border with a country that isn't in the same custom area?
 
The Outsider said:
My understanding is 80% of Ireland's trade is with the UK, that certainly gives us leverage.
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Leverage in what?

Anyway, as of July the UK was Ireland's third biggest trading partner in terms of two-way good and services. The rest of the EU accounts for nearly twice as much as the UK and the US is in second.
 
sullydnl said:
Leverage in what?

Anyway, as of July the UK was Ireland's third biggest trading partner in terms of two-way good and services. The rest of the EU accounts for nearly twice as much as the UK and the US is in second.
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Come one Sully, they have leverage to force you to join the UK.:D
 
sullydnl said:
Well NI remains part of the UK, the Republic remains part of the EU and the expressed attitude of the Rebublic's taoiseach towards the border issue is "the UK brought this problem about by voting for Brexit, it's up to them to come up with a workable solution". So no, shifting responsibility onto the two Irelands isn't going to work.
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If that's the most constructive solution he can offer, then I'd turn it round and say ' You chose to leave the UK - as much a problem for you as us '....


JPRouve said:
So it's the EU's fault, if you decided to leave? Is it the EU who claimed that they wanted to take back control of their borders? And how the EU are supposed to have an open border with a country that isn't in the same custom area?
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So the EU are more concerned about contaband and 'illegals' crossing the border into Ireland than the UK is concerned about contraband and 'illegals' crossing the border into the UK ?

Now there's a new angle on how things will eventually unfold - but the EU are not protectionist, scared of the consequences, racist, of course....


And then back to Paul ( who is usually a voice of reason instead of childish bolleaux ) with his concerns -

Paul the Wolf said:
You've been listening to Farage too much.

See we're still in the EU needs the Uk more than the other way round territory.
The UK will leave in name only in 2019 or fall off the cliff, up to the Uk what they want.

Not only is Northern Ireland part of the UK and is the Uk government's responsibility but please remember that the UK have caused this problem, no-one else, not the EU and not Ireland.
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No...You misunderstand me....I said

How long before the UK finally disentangles itself from the EU depends entirely on the EU - so maybe 2019 if they feel they don't need the UK any more, or maybe 2050 if they find out they need the UK's market and consumers to avoid their own repercussions of ' NO deal is better than a bad deal '

The ' No Deal is better than a bad deal ' scenario applies to the EU as well.....They'll choose the best option / time to suit themselves.

Should that worry the UK ? I wouldn't worry about it because there's absolutley nothing the UK can do about it - so don't waste time worrying about it anyway....

And can I join you in one of your ' hands - up '....

I wonder how many anti-Brexiteers who post on here are going to leave the UK to go live in the EU before March 2019 ?

Just to remind you - there are four of us who live in post-Brexit EU land ( Paul, Stanley, Kentonio and myself ) and the score is currently 2 -2.....

 
Full bodied red said:
So the EU are more concerned about contaband and 'illegals' crossing the border into Ireland than the UK is concerned about contraband and 'illegals' crossing the border into the UK ?

Now there's a new angle on how things will eventually unfold - but the EU are not protectionist, scared of the consequences, racist, of course....
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Are you stupid or you do it on purpose? Only the UK has a problem here, if you want an open border you will have to respect every rules made by the EU without opening your mouth, if you don't like that close the border, the decision is yours.
 
JPRouve said:
Are you stupid or you do it on purpose? Only the UK has a problem here, if you want an open border you will have to respect every rules made by the EU without opening your mouth, if you don't like that close the border, the decision is yours.
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Please....No personal insults....Just an answer is sufficient.
 
Full bodied red said:
2019....2025....2035....2050....??

The UK will leave in 2019. That is certain.

How long before the UK finally disentangles itself from the EU depends entirely on the EU - so maybe 2019 if they feel they don't need the UK any more, or maybe 2050 if they find out they need the UK's market and consumers to avoid their own repercussions of ' NO deal is better than a bad deal '

As for the Irish border problem - why not leave it to the two Irelands to sort it out between themselves, or is that too obvious ?
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That's the stupidest sentence in this thread since it was opened, well done!
 
JPRouve said:
That's not an insult that's a genuine question, just read your last posts. I'm sorry if it's not pleasant but there is a limit.
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But that's why I hate the EU.

The UK and the Republic - who have had their own agreements for years about immigration into each others' countries - are both EU members, both need a solution, but the EU and its rules takes precedence....
 
Full bodied red said:
If that's the most constructive solution he can offer, then I'd turn it round and say ' You chose to leave the UK - as much a problem for you as us '....
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The whole point is that it isn't his responsibility to come up with a solution. Ireland didn't vote for this, it's a set of problems the UK has inflicted upon them. The Irish government specifically said it was a bad idea and wouldn't work but were ignored. Which in a way is fine, except you can't then shift responsibility for figuring out a way to make it work onto them. That's the UK's job as they're the ones who apparently do think it can work.
 
Full bodied red said:
But that's why I hate the EU.

The UK and the Republic - who have had their own agreements for years about immigration into each others' countries - are both EU members, both need a solution, but the EU and its rules takes precedence....
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Err, the UK isn't going to be an EU member anymore.

If your wife decided to get divorced would you want it to be you or her who had to process all the papers and deal with the repercussions?
 
Full bodied red said:
Happily for some....Sadly for others....

But will be for the next 18 months or so while the problem needs to be sorted....
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Yeah and they UK should sort it cause they caused the problem. It's quite hilarious that you blame the EU for sticking to their rules on this. Of course they'll stick to their rules, they didn't vote to change any of them. The UK did. They voted out knowing that the border would have to be dealt with if they did.

But hey, your silly British mentality of "blame the EU, not us" caused this whole thing, so why would that change now.
 
Full bodied red said:
But that's why I hate the EU.

The UK and the Republic - who have had their own agreements for years about immigration into each others' countries - are both EU members, both need a solution, but the EU and its rules takes precedence....
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FFS, the entire point is that you are leaving the EU which changes your relationship with the Republic of Ireland, they are in an other economical and political block, a block that you are leaving, you need to redefine your relationship with them and their block.

At this point we shouldn't have to explain these things.
 
Full bodied red said:
No...You misunderstand me....I said

How long before the UK finally disentangles itself from the EU depends entirely on the EU - so maybe 2019 if they feel they don't need the UK any more, or maybe 2050 if they find out they need the UK's market and consumers to avoid their own repercussions of ' NO deal is better than a bad deal '

The ' No Deal is better than a bad deal ' scenario applies to the EU as well.....They'll choose the best option / time to suit themselves.

Should that worry the UK ? I wouldn't worry about it because there's absolutley nothing the UK can do about it - so don't waste time worrying about it anyway....

And can I join you in one of your ' hands - up '....

I wonder how many anti-Brexiteers who post on here are going to leave the UK to go live in the EU before March 2019 ?

Just to remind you - there are four of us who live in post-Brexit EU land ( Paul, Stanley, Kentonio and myself ) and the score is currently 2 -2.....
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Yes the terms will be dictated by the EU because they hold all the cards. The Uk have a few jokers, mind - I believe it will 2019 ( fully) or never .

I didn't know it was match - I'm not concerned about us in the EU , those of us who don't like the EU can return to the UK to be out of it if they so wish - it's those in the UK that should be concerned if the UK goes for the cliff edge.
 
JPRouve said:
FFS, the entire point is that you are leaving the EU which changes your relationship with the Republic of Ireland, they are in an other economical and political block, a block that you are leaving, you need to redefine your relationship with them and their block.

At this point we shouldn't have to explain these things.
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You've made your point....Thank You....
 
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