Well, f*ck you too, Ken.
Your second point is false by the way. No need to get your back up though, as i have no intention of spending hours in a fruitless discusion about trivialities.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Well, f*ck you too, Ken.
Your second point is false by the way. No need to get your back up though, as i have no intention of spending hours in a fruitless discusion about trivialities.
I doubt the UK would care too much if that happened.
Well, f*ck you too, Ken.
Official Leave Campaign: "There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave."
Daniel Hannan, prominent Leave campaigner: "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market."
Boris Johnson: “There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market”
You were saying? Interesting that you consider the nation being lied to about access to one of the most vital areas of the nations trade to be 'trivial' by the way.
Yes eventually you did conceded that, some progress is being made... now where have I heard that before?
Agreed, no disagreement here!
In the UK Parliament, the elected government propose areas for new or amended laws, via the Queen's speech, the elected MP nominated by the Prime Minister responsible for that particular area of Government, who serves as a Cabinet Minister proposes the law to the Elected Members of Parliament(with assistance from Senior Civil Servants) who pass the laws, (Acts of Parliament, Statutory Instruments, Regulations etc) sometimes with amendments some times without!
True!
How many Commissioners are elected by the EU constituents?
Yes, but only for a time, ultimately the Government can force things through, the principle being they are the elected representatives and are carrying out the democratic will of the people.
EU Commissioners also can force things through, but without the democratic authority of carrying out the will of the people, because they are unelected!
These terms were around long before Nigel Farage took his first pint!
Read some of Tony Benn's speeches in the early 60's
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I can't imagine Scotland keeping quiet, or Bristol, Liverpool, Manchester...
Wow
Oh, I think you probably did?
*Edit* Actually, after re-reading what Peston actually said I think Newton Dunn is mis-reading it. It seems like Peston is just saying the trade deal for the whole UK would be based on the regulatory match for NI. I could be wrong though.
Why is she so inept? My theory is she cannot possibly be so utterly clueless and it’s all a big play. I mean, it just has to be...doesn’t it...
DUP coalition just made Brexit harder for her then?
Another brilliant idea, just like 'Let's call an early election!'
Another brilliant idea, just like 'Let's call an early election!'
If she doesn't give Scotland leeway, then that will just spur talks of a Scottish referendum again. And the Tories in Scotland would only have sand to try and build a foundation on when arguing against it.
So strong, so stable.
If this happens, Freedom of movement will be next surely - you can't have one without the other. After that, Brexit effectively becomes nullified.
And at the very least, there will be a leadership contest for the Tories, and at the most, another election too!?
Almost certainly, re the odds of next general election, 2018 is the favourite!!
Any potential 2018 election should be on lines of 'Tory Brext' vs 'Forget the whole fecking thing'. Corbyn's life-long support of leaving the EU will mean it's the best chance to end this mess that we'll never get.
And what would that be - you're just like your hero, hoping for destruction. Hilarious.
On the other post, you agreed with everything I said and the HoL is a useless waste of money because it has no jursidiction, according to you
The United Kingdom of (rural) England and Wales
When Sturgeon and co were asking for just such an arrangement?
Anything that you Remainers would deem 'soft' or 'viable' likely amounts to a betrayal of the vote. But what would that matter, we thickos who voted Brexit could simply be ignored again by the Europhile chattering classes.
Sturgeon's moves were always clearly political - it was evident Scotland was never going to get a separate deal because one part of the UK having to establish a border with another would've been an unworkable approach for the UK government.
And, no, the vote itself wasn't on a 'soft' or 'hard' Brexit but merely on the decision to leaving the EU. Deciding the vote was a unanimous qualifier to go for the hardest Brexit possible in the face of a narrow majority would've been akin to Cameron taking a narrow Remain majority as a mandate to push for federalisation and an adoption of the Euro.
If the Brexiters were so keen on leaving the single market then that should've been the question on the ballot paper. It wasn't, of course, meaning the government implementing Brexit could choose to interpret the vote however they pleased. Our government chose to take it as a mandate for a hard Brexit although they're now increasingly clambering back because they're largely being outdone by the EU.
What would your solution to the Irish border question be, out of interest? A border is quite clearly politically nonviable but likewise Northern Ireland remaining within the customs union gives Scotland and London the right to demand the same. I'm genuinely interested to see a response to this because as of now I've not seen a viable response which doesn't involve a soft Brexit.
Why is she so inept? My theory is she cannot possibly be so utterly clueless and it’s all a big play. I mean, it just has to be...doesn’t it...
She's inept herself but anyone in her position would've struggled. From the start she's been trying to implement something that seems increasingly unworkable - whatever decision she makes will enrage her own cabinet, a hard Brexit for the entirety of the country would necessitate a border with Ireland which is quite clearly nonviable, and a soft Brexit would piss off those who feel they've been ignored over immigration. I don't feel the slightest bit sorry for her but even the most towering political figure would struggle to negotiate this mess.
To be fair to them, they outdone themselves. When you go to a negotiation table with demands like "I don't want to follow the same rules and I don't want borders.", the other side has nothing to say other than "We like the idea but it doesn't work."
How could continued single market membership be seen as respecting a win for Leave? Unless their aim was to cease MEP represenation and little else, the two are non consistent.
What did the official Leave reps talk about in the TV debates? Sovereignty, trade and immigration. When they released a policy paper it focused on the same. I'm n this for the long term of course, so it's primairly about making the clean break and buidling from there. Ideally. i'd like to maintain as strong a relathionship on as possible with regards to sciene and the enivornment. but if they want to restrict such things to 'club members only' then we'll take our cash to NASAinstead (to cite one example).
Official Leave Campaign: "There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave."
Daniel Hannan, prominent Leave campaigner: "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market."
Boris Johnson: “There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market”
You were saying? Interesting that you consider the nation being lied to about access to one of the most vital areas of the nations trade to be 'trivial' by the way.
A future free trade agreement and access to the single market, are not the same as membership (ECJ/the bill/borders).
But none of what you state above was ever put forward as a definitive and immovable condition of Brexit because different figures were saying different stuff. The question itself merely asked whether or not we wanted to leave the EU. Nothing official said that, for definite, we'd leave the single market.
And, again - simply saying it doesn't mean those debating for an exit understood the practicalities involved. Northern Ireland was barely spoken of and yet I don't think any Leaver ever gave a credible response to how we could leave the single market/customs union without implementing a border in Ireland.
Seriously, let’s all just save face and get Reece-Mogg as PM
Boris - foreign
Gove - chancellor
Priti Patel helping Davis in DExEU
Maybe even rope Farage in somehow
Boris - foreign
Gove - chancellor
Priti Patel helping Davis in DExEU
Maybe even rope Farage in somehow
You want to subject Canada to that horror show, you'll be deported.
That was never clearly laid out for voters, and the suggestion was deliberately planted that we'd still be in the single market to all intents and purposes. That was a fecking lie. Frankly anyone who tries to pretend that people 'knew what they were voting for' when you had people like Hannon saying "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market." is being willfully disingenous.
They tried to sell to the public something that could only sell if they lied about what people were actually buying. Well done, you tricked millions of people into fecking their own futures. Congratulations.
Indeed. It was always the case that the Brexit desired by many hardline leavers was largely incompatable with the UK's prior commitments in NI. Ignoring reality was only ever going to work for so long.
None of this should come as a suprise as it was all flagged both before and after the Brexit vote. Yet some people chose to either ignore these issues or invent fantasy solutions that nobody outside the UK was ever going to accept.
I'm nothing like my hero, wish I had his pension though!
'Destruction' is only in the minds of raving remainers and in your case you don't have to worry anyway...but you do, don't you?
Yes big it up Paul, unfortunately for you people can read for themselves (when they can be bothered of course). I agreed with some of your points to do with the make up of the EU, that's all!
I did not say the House of Lords was a useless waste of money, it scrutinizes, it makes the Government think again, can sometimes get amendments made to legislation, but ultimately it cannot defeat a determined Government acting on the will of the people, it is a second chamber, for debate and reflection, not for thwarting the will of the duly elected government.
The system for Governance in the EU, precisely because it does not directly elect its law makers, is a system at least once removed from a true representative democracy.
I have never denied the EU system has some democratic elements, but they are not directly representative of its constituents. My argument is that when the EU had the perfect opportunity to re-set itself on a more democratic and representative platform it refused, or some would argue it was unable to do so, because of its own rules.
The conclusion at that time and even more so when it increased in number, is that the EU, as an organisation, cannot/does not want to learn from its own mistakes and/or reform from within, hence it is doomed to failure. The UK leaving, will just clear the tracks and grease the wheels for the EU runaway train to eventually hit the buffers!
If Theresa wasn't lacking leadership to a ridiculous extent, she'd have gone to Labour to get the votes to pass a compromise. But of course then she might upset the DUP scum and endanger her ability to stay in power.
I'm sure the EU will find that his pension is a small price to pay, less than 16 months and he'll be gone. Raving remainers, you're off again, from a personal point of view Brexit affects me little other than eventually when I'm due a state pension it will have reduced in value as much as yours, so if that's what you mean we've both lost, as I've already said, but I'd given up any hope of getting a state pension long before Brexit was even thought of.
Sorry to disappoint.
Re Democracy You've put your case and I've put mine, there is nothing in my post which is untrue so we'll leave it there.
Looks like the DUP are running the UK, do you remember voting for them?
In 16 months time you won't have to worry about the EU, or will you?
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tom newton dunn or tom new to dumb?
I thought brexit was about taking control. Why is the DUP controlling the rest of the UK?
That is why I said that a cross party team needed to be set on Brexit matters.
they’ll end up all killing each other. Now enough of your Putin wankfest.Can england, wales and Scotland vote northern ireland out of the UK?
No. Parliament has sovereignty through the crown
Because May is letting them.
Flop
Ironic if after all these weeks of speculation as to whether she can agree a deal with the rest of the EU the whole thing collapses because of internal objections from the party she gave a £1bn bribe to. Hilarious too.
A party she had to give a 1 billion bribe to as a result of the election she called to supposedly strengthen her position for these very negotiations. Ouch.
If that's your view, then what is the alternative Brexit process that you would accept, that you think was offered/ publicised during the campaign?When Sturgeon and co were asking for just such an arrangement?
Anything that you Remainers would deem 'soft' or 'viable' likely amounts to a betrayal of the vote. But what would that matter, we thickos who voted Brexit could simply be ignored again by the Europhile chattering classes.
Look for similar comments on the Brexit bill through the last eighteen months as well. The amount of nonsense pushed by the leave campaign, that was completely divorced from any reality or realistic outcome is a tragedy. The fact that the referendum was won by clear lies and mis-truths needs to be given the historical weighting it deserves - a terrible moment in Modern British history.
Official Leave Campaign: "There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave."
Daniel Hannan, prominent Leave campaigner: "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market."
Boris Johnson: “There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market”
You were saying? Interesting that you consider the nation being lied to about access to one of the most vital areas of the nations trade to be 'trivial' by the way.